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[Angela]

Hmmm...

He looks like he probably has nits in his hair and beard, his nose is ugly, and he has a meh or worse body.

[FONT=&quot]Largest segment = 7.5 cM[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 28.2 cM (0.786 Pct)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]6 shared segments found for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]147157 SNPs used for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]42.285 Pct SNPs are full identical[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Comparison took 0.243 seconds.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CPU time used: 0.032 cpu seconds.


Now we're talking...The Bronzes of Riace...
[/FONT]

 

[Angela]

Hmmm...

He looks like he probably has nits in his hair and beard, his nose is ugly, and he has a meh or worse body.

Largest segment = 7.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 28.2 cM (0.786 Pct)

6 shared segments found for this comparison.

147157 SNPs used for this comparison.

42.285 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.243 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.032 cpu seconds.


Now we're talking...The Bronzes of Riace...

Forgot my husband's results:

[FONT=&quot]Largest segment = 5.7 cM[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 64.7 cM (1.808 Pct)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]16 shared segments found for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]222286 SNPs used for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]43.090 Pct SNPs are full identical[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Comparison took 0.257 seconds.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CPU time used: 0.036 cpu seconds.[/FONT]

 

[Joey37]

I don't match Otzi-who kind of reminds me of my Dad-but I do match this guy! I had a great-great-great-great-grandfather born in Bath, not far from Cheddar in north-eastern Somersetshire, John Henry Wilkins.View attachment 12163

 

[Salento]

Bronze-Age Roman map: Ötzi, ....

 

[flupke]

I am French with all known ancestry from French and Belgian Flanders, same for my wife.

Me:
Frank (4.458)
Visigoth + Saxon (4.891)
Visigoth + Frank (5.15)
Viking Danish + Visigoth (5.491)
Saxon + Frank (5.713)
Viking Norwegian + Visigoth (5.728)
Visigoth (6.41)
Saxon (8.174)
Viking Danish (10.42)
Viking Norwegian (10.7)

My First son:
Viking Danish + Frank (3.008)
Saxon + Frank (3.113)
Visigoth + Celt (3.153)
Celt + Frank (3.255)
Visigoth + Frank (3.69)
Frank (4.628)
Saxon (4.837)
Visigoth (6.199)
Viking Danish (6.536)
Celt (7.744)

My second son:
Viking Norwegian + Visigoth (3.357)
Viking Norwegian + Frank (3.644)
Visigoth + Longobard (4.074)
Longobard + Frank (4.216)
Saxon + Frank (4.863)
Frank (6.368)
Viking Norwegian (6.944)
Saxon (7.281)
Visigoth (7.898)
Longobard (8.131)

OK our Y Haplogroup is I1 L22+ (I1a1b1g2) but why all these Vikings ?

Another question: Our modern population matches are mostly amongst Flemish, Dutch, West Germans, North Germans but also WELSH ??? I Have noticed that a love of Belgians also have Welsh as a match. Sounds rather paradoxal to me. Any explanation ?

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Salento: Nice Bronze Age map in post #2722. Some of my Bronze Age genetic matches are in Ancient Greece so not showing up on the Ancient Rome Regional Archaeogenetics Map. However, Otzi is now In for me as well.

 

[Salento]

Salento: Nice Bronze Age map in post #2722. Some of my Bronze Age genetic matches are in Ancient Greece so not showing up on the Ancient Rome Regional Archaeogenetics Map. However, Otzi is now In for me as well.

View attachment 12182

... nice
I noticed, ... sometimes, re-uploading the Raw-Data makes a difference, refreshing alone won’t cut it

 

[Palermo Trapani]

... nice
I noticed, ... sometimes, re-uploading the Raw-Data makes a difference, refreshing alone won’t cut it

Yes I realized that as well. You have to re-upload periodically to get any new Samples MTA has in their data base. R1 in your map is the oldest Iron Age Roman I think in Antonio et al 2019 dating to 900 BC.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Salento: I went through the Antonio et al 2019 supplement and it cited in the references in the supplement this paper which I had actually forgot about. I have not been able to get a full copy of the Emery et al 2018 paper but after going through the Antonio Supplement, it has some interesting data.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X17308568?via=ihub


From the paper it states that 15 Iron Age samples from Southern Italy were used in the paper linked above Emery et al 2018. Antonio et al 2019 compared the mtdna Haplogroups in their paper to the 15 in the Emery paper. The Emery Iron age samples come from Botromagno, Puglia. I see there was a thread on this paper back in 2018 and you posted in it. Do you know if these samples have ever been made publicly available. If not, maybe Jovialis or Angela know what is the deal with them. Would be really good to see how those show up in MTA and how they plot with the 11 Iron Age in Antonio et al 2019.

Iron Age and Roman Republic (900-27 BCE; n=11)


Among the 11 Iron Age and Roman Republic individuals in the time-series reported here, the
mitochondrial haplogroups H (n=5, 45%), I (n=2), K (n=1), U (n=1), and T (n=2) are represented. In a
study of 15 individuals from Botromagno, in southern Italy, from the same time period (800-500 BCE),
Emery et. al. found similar frequencies of the H haplogroup, at ~46% (7/15 individuals) (64). In contrast
to Iron Age individuals studied here, the U haplogroup was found at much higher levels in Botromagno
individuals, at 40% (6/15 individuals). Among the Botromagno Iron Age individuals, haplogroups V and
J (both n = 1) were also represented, however they were not present in any of the 11 Iron Age individuals
reported here.

 

[Salento]

Salento: I went through the Antonio et al 2019 supplement and it cited in the references in the supplement this paper which I had actually forgot about. I have not been able to get a full copy of the Emery et al 2018 paper but after going through the Antonio Supplement, it has some interesting data.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X17308568?via=ihub


From the paper it states that 15 Iron Age samples from Southern Italy were used in the paper linked above Emery et al 2018. Antonio et al 2019 compared the mtdna Haplogroups in their paper to the 15 in the Emery paper. The Emery Iron age samples come from Botromagno, Puglia. I see there was a thread on this paper back in 2018 and you posted in it. Do you know if these samples have ever been made publicly available. If not, maybe Jovialis or Angela know what is the deal with them. Would be really good to see how those show up in MTA and how they plot with the 11 Iron Age in Antonio et al 2019.

Iron Age and Roman Republic (900-27 BCE; n=11)


Among the 11 Iron Age and Roman Republic individuals in the time-series reported here, the
mitochondrial haplogroups H (n=5, 45%), I (n=2), K (n=1), U (n=1), and T (n=2) are represented. In a
study of 15 individuals from Botromagno, in southern Italy, from the same time period (800-500 BCE),
Emery et. al. found similar frequencies of the H haplogroup, at ~46% (7/15 individuals) (64). In contrast
to Iron Age individuals studied here, the U haplogroup was found at much higher levels in Botromagno
individuals, at 40% (6/15 individuals). Among the Botromagno Iron Age individuals, haplogroups V and
J (both n = 1) were also represented, however they were not present in any of the 11 Iron Age individuals
reported here.

I don’t know if the Iron-Age Southern Italians / Pugliesi data and DNA is publicly available, maybe Jovialis or Angela know more about it

 

[Salento]

Interesting ... from the latest Ancient Romans coordinates (by Jovialis) Iron-Age Latin R437 and two Apulians like samples are in my “Single” results:

... fyi, Apulia is also R437 Top match in the K36 similarity rate

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39501-Moots-Ancient-Rome-Paper?p=590175&viewfull=1#post590175

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...arious-Calculators)/page7?p=605259#post605259

https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

R437_Iron_Age_Praeneste,0,3.76,4.46,1.94,0,1.18,0,0,5.13,0,0,14.54,0,0,5.51,9.17,0,23.54,0,7.86,0,3.74,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,8.38,10.78

 

[Palermo Trapani]

87 K36 score for R437 and Puglia. Wow. Reading my map, that is 82 for West Sicily and Calabria, 83 for Campania, and 81 for Lazio and South East/East Sicily and 80 Malta. The 79 and 76 look like Emila and Tuscany.

 

[Jovialis]

Salento: I went through the Antonio et al 2019 supplement and it cited in the references in the supplement this paper which I had actually forgot about. I have not been able to get a full copy of the Emery et al 2018 paper but after going through the Antonio Supplement, it has some interesting data.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X17308568?via=ihub


From the paper it states that 15 Iron Age samples from Southern Italy were used in the paper linked above Emery et al 2018. Antonio et al 2019 compared the mtdna Haplogroups in their paper to the 15 in the Emery paper. The Emery Iron age samples come from Botromagno, Puglia. I see there was a thread on this paper back in 2018 and you posted in it. Do you know if these samples have ever been made publicly available. If not, maybe Jovialis or Angela know what is the deal with them. Would be really good to see how those show up in MTA and how they plot with the 11 Iron Age in Antonio et al 2019.

Iron Age and Roman Republic (900-27 BCE; n=11)


Among the 11 Iron Age and Roman Republic individuals in the time-series reported here, the
mitochondrial haplogroups H (n=5, 45%), I (n=2), K (n=1), U (n=1), and T (n=2) are represented. In a
study of 15 individuals from Botromagno, in southern Italy, from the same time period (800-500 BCE),
Emery et. al. found similar frequencies of the H haplogroup, at ~46% (7/15 individuals) (64). In contrast
to Iron Age individuals studied here, the U haplogroup was found at much higher levels in Botromagno
individuals, at 40% (6/15 individuals). Among the Botromagno Iron Age individuals, haplogroups V and
J (both n = 1) were also represented, however they were not present in any of the 11 Iron Age individuals
reported here.

Actually, I took a picture from the article about that study that was featured in Archeology, a few issues back. It seems that the estate was composed of local populations, with two outliers that were probably slaves.:

Using isotope analysis, and DNA studies, Prowse's team has also demonstrated that the majority of those interred in the cemetery came from the region. "many people have this idea that when Rome came into the area, they would boot everyone out and then import foreign slaves", Prowse says, "but that's not what happened here. this estate relied more heavily on local populations". ​

 

[Salento]

87 K36 score for R437 and Puglia. Wow. Reading my map, that is 82 for West Sicily and Calabria, 83 for Campania, and 81 for Lazio and South East/East Sicily and 80 Malta. The 79 and 76 look like Emila and Tuscany.

Obviously we don’t know what all Apulians were like in 300 BC, but if the K36 map is right, in our time R437 is a Pizzicato Tarantato, ... heavily bitten by the Tarantula, lol

... some MTA deep dive Pugliesi-like and R437:

... came from Rome:

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Actually, I took a picture from the article about that study that was featured in Archeology, a few issues back. It seems that the estate was composed of local populations, with two outliers that were probably slaves.:

Using isotope analysis, and DNA studies, Prowse's team has also demonstrated that the majority of those interred in the cemetery came from the region. "many people have this idea that when Rome came into the area, they would boot everyone out and then import foreign slaves", Prowse says, "but that's not what happened here. this estate relied more heavily on local populations". ​

Jovialis: Thanks. My Institution got rid of its Elseiver subscription about 2 years ago so I can't get anything from that group except through inter library loan. Do you know if the Samples in that study will be made available to the public. The 2 From Asia, really? I have read some articles that have come out last 5 years or so that documents Greeks going to China in 3rd Century BC, so maybe that is the link and there was contact even earlier.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Salento: Yes, that is a strong match you have with R437, really a strong one. If those other samples from Puglia from Emery et al 2018 are ever made public and are enough quality for MTA to analyze like they did with the Antonio et al 2019 samples, you may have other close matches like R437. Jovialis noted that 13 of the 15 were locals from Puglia vs. 2 immigrants from Asia likely.

 

[Salento]

Salento: Yes, that is a strong match you have with R437, really a strong one. If those other samples from Puglia from Emery et al 2018 are ever made public and are enough quality for MTA to analyze like they did with the Antonio et al 2019 samples, you may have other close matches like R437. Jovialis noted that 13 of the 15 were locals from Puglia vs. 2 immigrants from Asia likely.

... another Pugliese is probably closer to R437 than me

 

[Jovialis]

Jovialis: Thanks. My Institution got rid of its Elseiver subscription about 2 years ago so I can't get anything from that group except through inter library loan. Do you know if the Samples in that study will be made available to the public. The 2 From Asia, really? I have read some articles that have come out last 5 years or so that documents Greeks going to China in 3rd Century BC, so maybe that is the link and there was contact even earlier.

I tried looking for it, but couldn't find anything.

It is suprising, but those two are negligible, because there is clearly no East Asian genetic legacy left behind in the region. Slaves had very short lives.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

... another Pugliese is probably closer to R437 than me

Ok I think that person probably posts here often, probably even in this thread! Wow that is really, really interesting, 2 people that post here whose ancestors are from Puglia getting close matches like that.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

I tried looking for it, but couldn't find anything.

It is suprising, but those two are negligible, because there is clearly no East Asian genetic legacy left behind in the region. Slaves had very short lives.

Ok thanks, to bad those samples are not available. Maybe they are doing additional excavations in that area and collecting more samples to analyze (publish additional papers) before releasing them. At least I hope so. Also, I agree, it is surprising. I have never seen any East Asian genetic legacy in any of the comprehensive DNA studies on modern Italy. So they were likely Slaves maybe brought over by the Greeks. I am not aware of any trade routes from Southern Italy to China dating back to that time. The Silk road was linking Persia and China by 500 BC so that could have resulted in some ancient Chinese individuals winding up that far West.