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Thread: Mytrueancestry.com

  1. #651
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L52(xU106)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Mostly Lusitani/Vettones (Iberia)
    Country: Brazil



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Yes @Carlos.
    New samples added and a new situation for me too.





    Last edited by Duarte; 18-05-19 at 17:52. Reason: Added new pic.
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Spain



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    New adjustment of my results.






    Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...


    1. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) (8.771) - I12034
    2. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 BC) (9.038) - FN_2
    3. Roman Soldier Germany (300 BC) (9.058) - FN_2
    4. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (9.145) - CL94
    5. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1200 BC) (10.8) - I3313
    6. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (13.48) - CL57
    7. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (760 AD) (13.51) - I3585
    8. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (13.99) - SZ28
    9. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (14.53) - CL23
    10. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (14.63) - I2649
    11. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (15.13) - scy192
    12. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1100 AD) (15.42) - I2515
    13. Italy Bell Beaker (2000 BC) (15.69) - I2478
    14. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (16.47) - I4332
    15. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (16.47) - I5769
    16. Roman Iberia Granada (300 AD) (16.5) - I3982
    17. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (16.53) - I2644
    18. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (16.63) - I7425
    19. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1120 AD) (16.75) - I2514
    20. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (17.05) - SZ45
    21. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) (17.4) - CL47
    22. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) (17.63) - I3981
    23. Medieval Frank (670 AD) (17.96) - CL63
    24. Czech Velke Prilepy (0 AD) (18.07) - Rise577
    25. Portugal Bronze Age (1600 BC) (18.45) - VO10207
    26. Halstatt Celt (775 BC) (18.87) - DA111
    27. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) (19.4) - DA199
    28. Gaulic Gladiator York (250 AD) (19.57) - 6DRIF-22
    29. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (19.6) - I12032
    30. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (19.83) - I2647
    31. Bell Beaker Southern France (2120 BC) (19.94) - I3874
    32. Central Roman (670 AD) (19.96) - CL36
    33. Swiss Germanic (670 AD) (19.98) - CL102
    34. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (20.3) - I3582
    35. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (20.74) - CL53
    36. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (20.74) - I12162
    37. Iberia Bronze Age (1600 BC) (21.08) - ATP9
    38. Bell Beaker Scotland (2145 BC) (21.5) - I5471
    39. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (21.51) - SZ18
    40. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) (21.55) - I3576
    41. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (21.6) - SZ23
    42. Bell Beaker France (2300 BC) (21.6) - I1388
    43. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (21.84) - I7424
    44. Germano-Celtic Gladiator York (250 AD) (21.85) - 3DRIF-16
    45. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (22.0) - I3581
    46. Central Roman (590 AD) (22.34) - SZ43
    47. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (22.47) - SZ38
    48. Alemannic Bavaria (450 AD) (22.47) - BIM_33
    49. Bell Beaker England (2150 BC) (22.82) - I1767
    50. Bell Beaker Poland (2500 BC) (22.89) - I4251
    51. Roman Iberia Granada (350 AD) (22.96) - I3983
    52. Unetice Bohemia (1875 BC) (23.15) - Rise154
    53. Central Roman (590 AD) (23.24) - SZ32
    54. Central Roman (590 AD) (23.67) - SZ36
    55. Bronze Age Jutland Denmark (1400 BC) (23.75) - Rise47
    56. Bell Beaker Southern France (2050 BC) (23.82) - I3875
    57. Neolithic Ireland (3200 BC) (24.07) - Ballynahatty
    58. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (24.14) - SZ14
    59. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (24.23) - I12031
    60. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (24.3) - I12163

    The Visigoths of Girona have come into play. Roman iberia Granada, Medieval Valencia, Medieval Andalusia. Does anyone know who medieval Valencia was?

    Duarte was waiting for him, he knew it would happen.

  3. #653
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    They basically mimic what I add recently to K36 Ancient oracle:) Celtiberian, Visigoth, Iberian medieval, Moriscos samples among others.

    So I must make another update think, now much more complex:)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    They basically mimic what I add recently to K36 Ancient oracle:) Celtiberian, Visigoth, Iberian medieval, Moriscos samples among others.

    So I must make another update think, now much more complex:)
    What other samples are you thinking of adding?

  5. #655
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L52(xU106)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Mostly Lusitani/Vettones (Iberia)
    Country: Brazil



    New changes, from yesterday to today:




    Last edited by Duarte; 19-05-19 at 16:44.

  6. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by timberwolf View Post
    What other samples are you thinking of adding?
    Maybe all from Roman and medieval period for Europe which are in last big Reich dataset (and from Olalde Spanish dataset).
    I must add Swat Valley / Indian samples too.

  7. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    New changes, from yesterday to today:




    Well, in "modern" gedmatch calculators I often get a bunch of matches to Spanish groups after the Northern Italian and Tuscan groups are listed, so I guess this makes sense. Why is another question. :)

    Also a changed list:


    1. Central Roman (590 AD) (3.614) - SZ43 Duarte gets 19.45
    2. Central Roman (670 AD) (4.508) - CL36 Duarte gets 16.92
    3. Central Roman (590 AD) (6.771) - SZ36 Duarte gets 20.25
    4. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (9.671) - CL23 I don't see it on Duarte's list at all so I tend to doubt it's Medieval Iberian.
    5. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (9.698) - SZ28 Duarte gets 12.32
    6. Hellenic Roman (670 AD) (9.734) - CL121 Duarte gets 24.4
    7. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (10.06) - scy192 Duarte gets 12.23
    8. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1200 BC) (10.28) - I3313 Duarte gets 11.54
    9. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1100 AD) (10.29) - I2515 Duarte gets 10.66
    10. Central Roman (590 AD) (10.83) - SZ32 20.24
    11. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (10.85) - I7424 This is a real shocker: Duarte gets 19.44. Was the mixture N.A. and more Italian like?
    12. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1120 AD) (11.87) - I2514 Duarte 12.8
    13. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) (11.99) - I3981 Duarte 12.61
    14. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (12.49) - I7425 Duarte 12.05
    15. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (12.6) - I4332 Duarte 12.38
    16. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (12.6) - I5769 Duarte 12.38
    17. Late Roman Iberia Granada (650 AD) - I3575- 13.51 Duarte gets
    18. Central Roman / Mixed (590 AD) (13.55) - SZ19 Duarte gets 19.03
    19. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (14.25) - CL94 Duarte gets 8.625
    20. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (14.39) - I3581 Duarte gets 18.93. Are some of these late Iberian samples Hispano-Roman types?
    21. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (14.53) - CL57 Duarte 14.48
    22. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (14.83) - I3582 Duarte 14.21
    23. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.06) - I2644 Duarte 12.47
    24. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (760 AD) (15.1) - I3585
    25. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (15.17) - SZ45 Duarte 16.59
    26. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) (15.17) - I3576 Duarte 16.53
    27. Roman Iberia Granada (350 AD) (15.18) - I3983 Duarte 17.89
    28. Roman Iberia Granada (300 AD) (15.42) - I3982 Duarte 13.39
    29. Hellenic Roman (590 AD) (15.43) - SZ40 Can't find it
    30. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.54) - I2649 Duarte 10.66
    31. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.84) - I2647 Duarte 13.59
    32. Medieval Frank (670 AD) (18.25) - CL63 Duarte 18.47 (Some "Germanic" in both but not good fits.
    33. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (18.27) - I9033
    34. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (18.7) - SZ18
    35. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (18.79) - I12031 Duarte 22.8
    36. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (515 AD) (18.88) - I3980 I don't see it.
    37. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) (18.95) - CL47 Duarte 17.25
    38. Roman Soldier Germany (300 BC) (19.15) - FN_2 Duarte 6.896
    39. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) (19.57) - DA199
    40. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (19.81) - I9041
    41. Sicily Beaker (2200 BC) (20.27) - I4930
    42. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (20.79) - CL53
    43. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (21.55) - I3808
    44. Swiss Germanic (670 AD) (21.94) - CL102
    45. Ostrogoth Crimea (300 AD) (22.29) - Ker1
    46. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (22.33) - SZ5
    47. Gepid / Goth (450 AD) (22.66) - Vim2
    48. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (22.92) - I12163
    49. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) (22.97) - I12034
    50. Hellenic Roman / Cretan (670 AD) (23.75) - CL38
    51. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 BC) (24.02) - FN_2
    52. Hellenic Roman / Dodecanese (670 AD) (24.06) - CL30
    53. Hellenic Roman / Calabria (670 AD) (24.14) - CL25
    54. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (24.16) - I12032 Duarte18.81
    55. Bronze Age Armenia (1500 BC) (25.18) - Rise397
    56. Crete Armenoi (1370 BC) (25.28) - I9123
    57. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (25.72) - SZ38
    58. Trypillia (3500 BC) (25.94) - I1926
    59. Scythian Moldova (300 BC) (25.98) - scy301
    60. Guanche Canary Islands (960 AD) (27.01) - gun005

    It just got too tedious, so after 30 I just spot checked the differences for somehow Iberian related samples. I have to add Carlos' results.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, in "modern" gedmatch calculators I often get a bunch of matches to Spanish groups after the Northern Italian and Tuscan groups are listed, so I guess this makes sense. Why is another question. :)

    Also a changed list:


    1. Central Roman (590 AD) (3.614) - SZ43 Duarte gets 19.45
    2. Central Roman (670 AD) (4.508) - CL36 Duarte gets 16.92
    3. Central Roman (590 AD) (6.771) - SZ36 Duarte gets 20.25
    4. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (9.671) - CL23 I don't see it on Duarte's list at all so I tend to doubt it's Medieval Iberian.
    5. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (9.698) - SZ28 Duarte gets 12.32
    6. Hellenic Roman (670 AD) (9.734) - CL121 Duarte gets 24.4
    7. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (10.06) - scy192 Duarte gets 12.23
    8. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1200 BC) (10.28) - I3313 Duarte gets 11.54
    9. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1100 AD) (10.29) - I2515 Duarte gets 10.66
    10. Central Roman (590 AD) (10.83) - SZ32 20.24
    11. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (10.85) - I7424 This is a real shocker: Duarte gets 19.44. Was the mixture N.A. and more Italian like?
    12. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1120 AD) (11.87) - I2514 Duarte 12.8
    13. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) (11.99) - I3981 Duarte 12.61
    14. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (12.49) - I7425 Duarte 12.05
    15. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (12.6) - I4332 Duarte 12.38
    16. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (12.6) - I5769 Duarte 12.38
    17. Late Roman Iberia Granada (650 AD) - I3575- 13.51 Duarte gets
    18. Central Roman / Mixed (590 AD) (13.55) - SZ19 Duarte gets 19.03
    19. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (14.25) - CL94 Duarte gets 8.625
    20. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (14.39) - I3581 Duarte gets 18.93. Are some of these late Iberian samples Hispano-Roman types?
    21. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (14.53) - CL57 Duarte 14.48
    22. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (14.83) - I3582 Duarte 14.21
    23. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.06) - I2644 Duarte 12.47
    24. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (760 AD) (15.1) - I3585
    25. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (15.17) - SZ45 Duarte 16.59
    26. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) (15.17) - I3576 Duarte 16.53
    27. Roman Iberia Granada (350 AD) (15.18) - I3983 Duarte 17.89
    28. Roman Iberia Granada (300 AD) (15.42) - I3982 Duarte 13.39
    29. Hellenic Roman (590 AD) (15.43) - SZ40 Can't find it
    30. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.54) - I2649 Duarte 10.66
    31. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.84) - I2647 Duarte 13.59
    32. Medieval Frank (670 AD) (18.25) - CL63 Duarte 18.47 (Some "Germanic" in both but not good fits.
    33. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (18.27) - I9033
    34. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (18.7) - SZ18
    35. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (18.79) - I12031 Duarte 22.8
    36. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (515 AD) (18.88) - I3980 I don't see it.
    37. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) (18.95) - CL47 Duarte 17.25
    38. Roman Soldier Germany (300 BC) (19.15) - FN_2 Duarte 6.896
    39. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) (19.57) - DA199
    40. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (19.81) - I9041
    41. Sicily Beaker (2200 BC) (20.27) - I4930
    42. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (20.79) - CL53
    43. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (21.55) - I3808
    44. Swiss Germanic (670 AD) (21.94) - CL102
    45. Ostrogoth Crimea (300 AD) (22.29) - Ker1
    46. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (22.33) - SZ5
    47. Gepid / Goth (450 AD) (22.66) - Vim2
    48. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (22.92) - I12163
    49. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) (22.97) - I12034
    50. Hellenic Roman / Cretan (670 AD) (23.75) - CL38
    51. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 BC) (24.02) - FN_2
    52. Hellenic Roman / Dodecanese (670 AD) (24.06) - CL30
    53. Hellenic Roman / Calabria (670 AD) (24.14) - CL25
    54. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (24.16) - I12032 Duarte18.81
    55. Bronze Age Armenia (1500 BC) (25.18) - Rise397
    56. Crete Armenoi (1370 BC) (25.28) - I9123
    57. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (25.72) - SZ38
    58. Trypillia (3500 BC) (25.94) - I1926
    59. Scythian Moldova (300 BC) (25.98) - scy301
    60. Guanche Canary Islands (960 AD) (27.01) - gun005

    It just got too tedious, so after 30 I just spot checked the differences for somehow Iberian related samples. I have to add Carlos' results.
    Duarte, do you know why you're given Gallo-Roman (6.896) as your closest ancient population when your closest fit to one of them is 12.32? Is it just they haven't gotten around to updating that section?

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    Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...

    1. Pict (670 AD) (4.452) - CL83
    2. Nordic Lombard (670 AD) (5.104) - CL92
    3. Bronze Age Celt England (1000 BC) (5.469) - I5383
    4. Bell Beaker England (2100 BC) (5.603) - I2452
    5. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (5.941) - SZ15
    6. Celtic Briton (0 AD) (6.126) - Hinxton 4
    7. Bell Beaker England (2150 BC) (6.271) - I1767
    8. Celtic/Viking Iceland (1000 AD) (6.764) - VDP-A6
    9. Nordic-Celtic Gladiator York (250 AD) (6.875) - 6DRIF-18
    10. Late Medieval Gotlander (1600 AD) (7.22) - Unknown
    11. Anglo Saxon (700 AD) (7.239) - Hinxton HS3
    12. Bronze Age Orkney Islands (1750 BC) (7.271) - I2981
    13. Bell Beaker Southern France (2050 BC) (7.539) - I3875
    14. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (7.546) - SZ12
    15. Nordic Lombard (670 AD) (7.637) - CL146
    16. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (7.64) - SZ14
    17. Bell Beaker Scotland (2100 BC) (7.778) - I2568
    18. Nordic Lombard (670 AD) (7.847) - CL145
    19. Alemannic Bavaria (500 AD) (7.95) - AED_249
    20. Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) (8.037) - 6DRIF-23
    21. Nordic Lombard (670 AD) (8.04) - CL84
    22. Alemannic Bavaria (465 AD) (8.084) - NW_255
    23. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (8.12) - SZ4
    24. Ireland Copper Age (1880 BC) (8.14) - Rathlin2
    25. Colonial American Pennsylvania (1700 AD) (8.208) - Shohola
    26. Alemannic Bavaria (500 AD) (8.313) - ALH_1
    27. Bronze Age Scottish Islands (2350 BC) (8.39) - I5367
    28. Germano-Celtic Gladiator York (250 AD) (8.569) - 6DRIF-3
    29. Vandal Chieftain (375 AD) (8.625) - DA119
    30. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (8.781) - Sigtuna grt035
    31. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (8.802) - SZ7
    32. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (8.85) - SZ22
    33. Celtic Briton (70 BC) (8.853) - Hinxton 1
    34. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (8.935) - Sigtuna stg021
    35. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (8.941) - SZ23
    36. Alemannic Bavaria (500 AD) (9.008) - ALH_10
    37. Bell Beaker Cambridge (2075 BC) (9.023) - I3255
    38. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (9.114) - SZ8
    39. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (9.485) - SZ38
    40. Czech Velke Prilepy (0 AD) (9.594) - Rise577
    41. Bell Beaker Germany (2500 BC) (9.62) - I0112
    42. Anglo Saxon (700 AD) (9.788) - Hinxton HS1
    43. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (9.908) - I12162
    44. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (9.91) - SZ9
    45. Corded Ware Denmark (2450 BC) (9.952) - Rise61
    46. Nordic Lombard (670 AD) (10.13) - CL93
    47. Bell Beaker Scotland (2145 BC) (10.4) - I5471
    48. Nordic Lombard / Winnili (590 AD) (10.43) - SZ16
    49. Germano-Celtic Gladiator York (250 AD) (10.6) - 3DRIF-16
    50. Bell Beaker Oxford (2150 BC) (10.67) - I2447
    51. Celtic / Hungary (590 AD) (10.7) - SZ11
    52. Nordic Lombard (670 AD) (10.81) - CL151
    53. Celtic Gladiator York (250 AD) (10.82) - 6DRIF-21
    54. Bell Beaker Amesbury (2150 BC) (11.08) - I5512
    55. Unetice Bohemia (1800 BC) (11.2) - Rise150
    56. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) (11.21) - SZ2
    57. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (11.25) - Sigtuna 84001
    58. Alemannic Bavaria (450 AD) (11.32) - BIM_33
    59. Ireland Copper Age (1635 BC) (11.33) - Rathlin3
    60. Bronze Age Germany (1050 BC) (11.35) - I0099

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    Angela

    About Moorish Andalusia I think according to the link that it was mixed moriscos half iberia half north Africa. He says that after the expulsions, the reconquest and the repopulation, the genetic inheritance remains at 5%, perhaps even pre-Islamic.


    The coincidence perhaps with the Andalusian Moorish or rather Al-Andalus is due to its Iberian or European part. I think that is true about these individuals in particular.


    The maps show the 25 closest matches and are trying to expand it to be more flexible.

    Estoy encantado que por fin aparezcan yacimientos de España.

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    Finally, the Iberian Peninsula did not look like a desert.

    Although they have disappeared to me to have put more data the deposits of England and Scotland since the program introduces in the maps the last 25 strongest I believe that they are going to solve it. I think it is good to see the interconnection between the peoples and territories of Europe.



    And in this Bell Beaker Italy appears that previously did not appear.

    Appear or not appear the data is but it is a very good format and many people can be fond since the image is so important nowadays and will serve for a greater promotion and dissemination among the population that not only data and more data without drawings.


    You have truly had a great idea.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    My results with some of Duarte's and Carlos' results:
    1. Central Roman (590 AD) (3.614) - SZ43 Duarte gets 19.45
    2. Central Roman (670 AD) (4.508) - CL36 Duarte gets 16.92
    3. Central Roman (590 AD) (6.771) - SZ36 Duarte gets 20.25
    4. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (9.671) - CL23 Not on Duarte's list at all so I tend to doubt it should be called Medieval Iberian. Carlos (14.53) It's northern It.
    5. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (9.698) - SZ28 Duarte gets 12.32 Carlos (13.99)
    6. Hellenic Roman (670 AD) (9.734) - CL121 Duarte gets 24.4
    7. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (10.06) - scy192 Duarte gets 12.23 Carlos (15.13)
    8. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1200 BC) (10.28) - I3313 Duarte gets 11.54 Carlos (10.8)
    9. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1100 AD) (10.29) - I2515 Duarte gets 11.49 Carlos (15.42)
    10. Central Roman (590 AD) (10.83) - SZ32 20.24
    11. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (10.85) - I7424 This is a real shocker: Duarte gets 19.44. Carlos (21.84) Was the mixture N.A. and more Italian like?
    12. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1120 AD) (11.87) - I2514 Duarte 12.8 Carlos (16.75)
    13. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) (11.99) - I3981 Duarte 12.61 Carlos (17.63)
    14. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (12.49) - I7425 Duarte 12.05 Carlos (16.63
    15. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (12.6) - I4332 Duarte 12.38 Caros (16.47)
    16. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (12.6) - I5769 Duarte 12.38 Carlos (16.47)
    17. Late Roman Iberia Granada (650 AD) - I3575- 13.51 Duarte gets 19.03
    18. Central Roman / Mixed (590 AD) (13.55) - SZ19 Duarte gets 19.03
    19. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (14.25) - CL94 Duarte gets 8.625 Carlos (9.145)
    20. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (14.39) - I3581 Duarte gets 18.93. Carlos (22.0) Are some of these late Iberian samples Hispano-Roman types?
    21. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (14.53) - CL57 Duarte 14.48 Carlos (13.48)
    22. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (14.83) - I3582 Duarte 14.21 Carlos 20.3
    23. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.06) - I2644 Duarte 12.47 Carlos (16.53)
    24. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (760 AD) (15.1) - I3585 Duarte 9. 921 Carlos (13.51)
    25. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (15.17) - SZ45 Duarte 16.59 Carlos(17.05)
    26. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) (15.17) - I3576 Duarte 16.53 Carlos 21.55
    27. Roman Iberia Granada (350 AD) (15.18) - I3983 Duarte 17.89 Carlos (22.96)
    28. Roman Iberia Granada (300 AD) (15.42) - I3982 Duarte 13.39 Carlos (16.5)
    29. Hellenic Roman (590 AD) (15.43) - SZ40 Can't find it
    30. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.54) - I2649 Duarte 10.66 Carlos (14.63)
    31. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.84) - I2647 Duarte 13.59
    32. Medieval Frank (670 AD) (18.25) - CL63 Duarte 18.47 Carlos (17.96 ) Some "Frank" in all three but not good fits.
    33. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (18.27) - I9033
    34. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (18.7) - SZ18
    35. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (18.79) - I12031 Duarte 22.8 Carlos (24.23)
    36. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (515 AD) (18.88) - I3980 I don't see it.
    37. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) (18.95) - CL47 Duarte 17.25 Carlos (17.4)
    38. Roman Soldier Germany (300 BC) (19.15) - FN_2 Duarte 6.896 Carlos 9.058
    39. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) (19.57) - DA199
    40. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (19.81) - I9041
    41. Sicily Beaker (2200 BC) (20.27) - I4930
    42. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (20.79) - CL53
    43. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (21.55) - I3808
    44. Swiss Germanic (670 AD) (21.94) - CL102 Carlos(22.0)
    45. Ostrogoth Crimea (300 AD) (22.29) - Ker1
    46. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (22.33) - SZ5
    47. Gepid / Goth (450 AD) (22.66) - Vim2
    48. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (22.92) - I12163 Carlos (24.3)
    49. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) (22.97) - I12034 Duarte 9.863 Carlos 8.771
    50. Hellenic Roman / Cretan (670 AD) (23.75) - CL38
    51. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 BC) (24.02) - Duarte 10.39 FN_2 Carlos 9.038
    52. Hellenic Roman / Dodecanese (670 AD) (24.06) - CL30
    53. Hellenic Roman / Calabria (670 AD) (24.14) - CL25
    54. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (24.16) - I12032 Duarte18.81 Carlos (19.6)
    55. Bronze Age Armenia (1500 BC) (25.18) - Rise397
    56. Crete Armenoi (1370 BC) (25.28) - I9123
    57. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (25.72) - SZ38
    58. Trypillia (3500 BC) (25.94) - I1926
    59. Scythian Moldova (300 BC) (25.98) - scy301
    60. Guanche Canary Islands (960 AD) (27.01) - gun005

    It just got too tedious, so after 30 I just spot checked the differences for somehow Iberian related samples. I added Carlos' results up to his number 30.

    What fits did Balkan people get for the Illyrians, Thracians and Scythians? I seem to get a slightly better fit than Carlos and Duarte.

    I'd like to see CL23 run against Parma Beakers and later Italian samples from the north when they come out. I think some of the CL samples may be mislabeled as Iberian, when I'm closer to them than an Iberian.

    The Medieval Valencia samples are all over the place. So are the "Moriscos". I have to go back and look at individual samples for both groups, because they all varied. Add the "Visigothic" ones. From what I remember, some of them are very "local Iberian" like.

    For Italian Bell Beaker Carlos gets 15.69, but it doesn't appear at all on mine. I have to see which one it was, ie more steppic or less steppic ones. Do other Italian posters get it? Maybe some of the comments I saw that Parma Beaker wasn't the "more northern" mixing agent everywhere in Italy is correct.

    Carlos gets a lot of Bell Beaker samples I don't get at all. He also gets some of the Gladiators. I don't get any at all.

    I seem to be closer to Gallo Roman and Cisalpine Gaul than these two Iberians, but I think I remember Stuvane might have been closer?

    Stuvane, if you see this, could you compare with your list?

    In fact, if it isn't a lot of bother, does someone have a program or app that could just collate all our posted scores and give fits per sample by name? If I knew how to do it I would. That would be terrific.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    @Angela: this is my new list

    1. Central Roman (590 AD) (6.538) - SZ43
    2. Central Roman (590 AD) (7.299) - SZ36
    3. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (7.647) - I7424
    4. Central Roman (670 AD) (8.839) - CL36
    5. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (8.938) - CL23
    6. Hellenic Roman (670 AD) (11.0) - CL121
    7. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (11.39) - SZ28
    8. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1200 BC) (11.77) - I3313
    9. Central Roman (590 AD) (12.78) - SZ32
    10. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1100 AD) (13.34) - I2515
    11. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1120 AD) (13.7) - I2514
    12. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) (13.83) - I3981
    13. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (13.93) - I7425
    14. Late Roman Iberia Granada (650 AD) (14.23) - I3575
    15. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (14.48) - scy192
    16. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (14.85) - I3582
    17. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (15.0) - CL57
    18. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (15.56) - I2644
    19. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (760 AD) (15.62) - I3585
    20. Roman Iberia Granada (300 AD) (15.8) - I3982
    21. Central Roman / Mixed (590 AD) (15.81) - SZ19
    22. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (16.04) - I3581
    23. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (16.55) - SZ45
    24. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (16.57) - CL94
    25. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (16.58) - I4332
    26. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (16.58) - I5769
    27. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) (17.34) - I3576
    28. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (18.22) - I12031
    29. Hellenic Roman (590 AD) (18.63) - SZ40
    30. Medieval Frank (670 AD) (18.91) - CL63
    31. Roman Iberia Granada (350 AD) (18.98) - I3983
    32. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (19.21) - SZ18
    33. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (515 AD) (19.37) - I3980
    34. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (19.84) - I2649
    35. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (19.94) -



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    following...

    36. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (20.74) - I9041
    37. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (21.12) - I3808
    38. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) (21.26) - CL47
    39. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (21.27) - I9033
    40. Roman Soldier Germany (300 BC) (21.53) - FN_2
    41. Ostrogoth Crimea (300 AD) (22.03) - Ker1
    42. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) (22.3) - DA199
    43. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (22.54) - SZ5
    44. Sicily Beaker (2200 BC) (22.55) - I4930
    45. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (22.58) - CL53
    46. Gepid / Goth (450 AD) (22.74) - Vim2
    47. Crete Armenoi (1370 BC) (23.37) - I9123
    48. Hellenic Roman / Dodecanese (670 AD) (23.94) - CL30
    49. Swiss Germanic (670 AD) (24.15) - CL102
    50. Hellenic Roman / Calabria (670 AD) (24.69) - CL25
    51. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (24.96) - I12163
    52. Hellenic Roman / Cretan (670 AD) (25.34) - CL38
    53. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) (25.37) - I12034
    54. Bronze Age Armenia (1500 BC) (26.07) - Rise397
    55. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 BC) (26.33)- FN_2
    56. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) (26.7) - I12032
    57. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) (26.76) - SZ38
    58. Scythian Moldova (300 BC) (27.1) - scy301
    59. Hittite Anatolia (1875 BC) (27.61) - MA2208
    60. Guanche Canary Islands (960 AD) (27.78) - gun005


    Sent from my SM-J730F using Eupedia Forum mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'd like to see CL23 run against Parma Beakers and later Italian samples from the north when they come out. I think some of the CL samples may be mislabeled as Iberian, when I'm closer to them than an Iberian.
    .
    Of course it is mislabelled. In K36 Ancient it is Northern Italian.

    Here on PCA in north Italian cluster. And Italians here all have it as hight fit.

    BTW nobody notice that you have Roman Soldier FN_2 sample two times on the list on different positions... FN_2 is sample ID, it can't be used twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    Maybe all from Roman and medieval period for Europe which are in last big Reich dataset (and from Olalde Spanish dataset).
    I must add Swat Valley / Indian samples too.
    could you add the two illyrians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    Of course it is mislabelled. In K36 Ancient it is Northern Italian.

    Here on PCA in north Italian cluster. And Italians here all have it as hight fit.

    BTW nobody notice that you have Roman Soldier FN_2 sample two times on the list on different positions... FN_2 is sample ID, it can't be used twice.
    Yes, I remember your PCA and where the samples plot among modern people. They're clearly more modern "North Italian" shifted than Iberian shifted by a lot. I don't know why they labeled them "Iberian". I mean, yeah, they're more Iberian shifted than the southern Italian ones, but that's a different story. Are they assuming the more Iberian like affinity came later as a result of admixture. I'd have to go back to the paper and look at the uniparentals to make sure, but who is to say these were just another group of people living in northern Italy at that time. The Romans sent a lot of people from the south north, and not just in colonia.

    There may be a fundamental misunderstanding of those results.

    Btw, where did SZ43 go?

    I want to see the CL23 and some of the other "Iberian" labeled samples here compared to Parma Beaker.

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    CL23 (y T-L446):

    1 North-Italy 27.39
    2 Portugal&GaliciaAzores 19.61
    3 Spain North&East 19.33
    4 Spain Central&South 19.02
    5 East-Balkan 14.65



    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 North_Italian @ 6.318764
    2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 10.215214
    3 Portuguese @ 10.481634
    4 Tuscan @ 10.846835
    5 Spanish_Galicia @ 11.515195
    6 Spanish_Andalucia @ 11.734688
    7 Spanish_Murcia @ 11.924896
    8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 12.378675
    9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 12.674054
    10 Spanish_Valencia @ 12.895143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, I remember your PCA and where the samples plot among modern people. They're clearly more modern "North Italian" shifted than Iberian shifted by a lot. I don't know why they labeled them "Iberian". I mean, yeah, they're more Iberian shifted than the southern Italian ones, but that's a different story. Are they assuming the more Iberian like affinity came later as a result of admixture. I'd have to go back to the paper and look at the uniparentals to make sure, but who is to say these were just another group of people living in northern Italy at that time. The Romans sent a lot of people from the south north, and not just in colonia.

    There may be a fundamental misunderstanding of those results.

    Btw, where did SZ43 go?

    I want to see the CL23 and some of the other "Iberian" labeled samples here compared to Parma Beaker.
    No one can exclude it has partly Iberian ancestry but judging from people results, not even my PCA, this sample has more affinity to north Italy than Iberia. That's a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Duarte, do you know why you're given Gallo-Roman (6.896) as your closest ancient population when your closest fit to one of them is 12.32? Is it just they haven't gotten around to updating that section?
    Hello Angela.

    In principle, looking at my "TIMELINE and for" TIMELINE of Carlos, as well as looking at my archeological map, the proximity to the populations (Gallo-Romans, Visigoths, Ilyrians) is calculated from an algorithm that considers all distances with all populations with which I relate and not the relative distance with a single sample of an individual from that group. IMO. Big Hug

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Hello Angela.

    In principle, looking at my "TIMELINE and for" TIMELINE of Carlos, as well as looking at my archeological map, the proximity to the populations (Gallo-Romans, Visigoths, Ilyrians) is calculated from an algorithm that considers all distances with all populations with which I relate and not the relative distance with a single sample of an individual from that group. IMO. Big Hug
    If that were true, Duarte, why would they give you a genetic fit number for each individual ancient sample. It would be a useless endeavor.

    Also, that time line is linked to a specific dated sample, and your closest ancient populations page gives fits which relate to specific identified samples. You can find them on your genetic samples map.The Central Rome which appears as my closest fit on that is SZ43. I can tell because the fit numbers are identical.b

    I think that by mislabeling some of the Collegno samples they are misleading people. They also should re-label that Ostrogoth sample, which is really Anatolian or Aegean like, and a lot of the Visigothic Spanish samples, a lot of which aren't very Germanic.

    Not everybody has followed all the details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    No one can exclude it has partly Iberian ancestry but judging from people results, not even my PCA, this sample has more affinity to north Italy than Iberia. That's a fact.
    As I said, I know that.

    What I want to know is if some of these CL samples are actually just Northern Italian samples of that era, i.e. before the arrival of the Langobards etc. That would then indicate that then as now there were more "northern" as well as more "southern" people living in Italy at that time, i.e. not homogeneous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If that were true, Duarte, why would they give you a genetic fit number for each individual ancient sample. It would be a useless endeavor.

    Also, that time line is linked to a specific dated sample, and your closest ancient populations page gives fits which relate to specific identified samples. You can find them on your genetic samples map.The Central Rome which appears as my closest fit on that is SZ43. I can tell because the fit numbers are identical.b

    I think that by mislabeling some of the Collegno samples they are misleading people. They also should re-label that Ostrogoth sample, which is really Anatolian or Aegean like, and a lot of the Visigothic Spanish samples, a lot of which aren't very Germanic.

    Not everybody has followed all the details.
    Hi Angela,
    In my case, the Gallo-Roman @ 6,896 is equivalent to the Roman Soldier Gemany FN_2 @ 6.896. I saw in another forum (theapricity) that this soldier would be from the south of France, probably Aquitaine. I am assuming that from this hypothesis born the classification of the Roman Soldier as Gallo-Roman. I also received the email below that explains how the updates will be happen from now on:


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    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    Maybe all from Roman and medieval period for Europe which are in last big Reich dataset (and from Olalde Spanish dataset).
    I must add Swat Valley / Indian samples too.

    Excellent. What can you tell me about RISE577? It seems to be consistently my closest match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Hi Angela,
    In my case, the Gallo-Roman @ 6,896 is equivalent to the Roman Soldier Gemany FN_2 @ 6.896. I saw in another forum (theapricity) that this soldier would be from the south of France, probably Aquitaine. I am assuming that from this hypothesis born the classification of the Roman Soldier as Gallo-Roman. I also received the email below that explains how the updates will be happen from now on:

    OK.

    Looking at your list of sample matches:

    Gallo Roman SZ28 12.32

    Roman soldier FN 6.896

    Are you saying that on the page where they give you a couple of "closest" Ancient populations they have Gallo Roman 6.896? The one with the ancient picture?

    If that's the case, then I think they are confusing things up for people. What makes Roman soldier FN a Gallo-Roman? If anything maybe an Iberian.

    Also, if Lukas is right and there aren't two Roman soldier in Germany samples, then why do I get two on my list with two different fits?

    Do you get two as well? Are the fits the same?

    @Lukas, where does the Roman soldier plot? Both/one?

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