MyTrueAncestry Mytrueancestry.com

Iberian / Piedmont. Who was that man?

It's a sample from the Langobard cemetery at Collegno, Italy, which is in Piedmont. They made up the name because he's relatively close to Iberians.

Duarte gets 8.625 and you get 9.145. I'm further away.

There are probably more details in the paper.
 
i tried the k36 nmonte with ancients
in your dna portal site
these are my results :

Closest population distances
Population Distance

EMA_Greek-Balkan_AEH_1 1.265986 who was he ? :unsure:
CL30_Greek_south-Italian 1.549172
CL38_Greek_south-Italian 1.609881
CL25_south_Italian 1.698788
CL31_Greek_Balkan 1.805071
CL121__north-Italian 1.861326
SZ36_north-Italian 1.911616
I7424_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD 1.933206

Population Value
EMA_Greek-Balkan_AEH_1 38.2
CL30_Greek_south-Italian 6.6
i3808_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD 6.6
CL25_south_Italian 4.6
I7424_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD 4
MA2198_Anatolia_IA 3.8
CL38_Greek_south-Italian 3.6
SZ36_north-Italian 3
N_Levant_AinGhazal5 2.2
i7425_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD 2
BA_Sydon 1.8
CHL_Iran_I1662 1.4
Niederstotzingen_north-Italian_3c 1.4
BA_I9123_Crete_Armenoi 1.2
CHL_Iran_I1665 1.2
CL31_Greek_Balkan 1.2
Crimean_Goth_Ker_1 1.2
Egyptian_mummy_III_jk2911_ 1.2
IA_LevantEgypt_Gladiator_3DRIF26 1.2
EBA__Armenia_I1635 1
Late_Medieval_Iran_I1955 1
CL23_north-Italian 0.8
EN_Anatolia_Tepe002 0.8
I1979_Beaker_North_Italy 0.8
BA_Hungary_RISE254 0.6
CHL_Armenia_I1634 0.6
CHL_Iran_I1674 0.6
EIA_F38_Iran 0.6
Egyptian_mumy_I_JK2888_ 0.6
BA_I9041_Mycenaean 0.4
CHL_Armenia_I1407 0.4
CHL_Iran_I1661 0.4
EBA_Jordan__I1730 0.4
LBA_Lithuania_RISE598 0.4
MBA_Armenia_RISE423 0.4
MN_Germany_I0559 0.4
SZ32_north-Italian 0.4
SZ43_north-Italian 0.4
CHL_Anatolian_I1584 0.2
CL121__north-Italian 0.2
EBA_Armenia_I1633 0.2
EMA_Alpine_STR_535 0.2
I10892_Catalonia_medieval 0.2
I1152_Israel_chalcolithic 0.2
I3496_Iberian_Catalonia_200BCE 0.2
IA_Britain_York_6DRIF22 0.2
LN_Portugal_Monte_Canelas_1 0.2
MBA_ATP9_Iberia 0.2
N_Iran_I1945 0.2
SZ40_Italian 0.2
Visigoth_I12032 0.2
 
... from a new upload:
... same Ancient pop, different timeline, and deep dive has Illyrians, Minoans, Central Roman, ...

sMMs2kc.jpg


JTfFFh4.jpg


9sH2jEw.jpg



couple of Mycenaeans from others RawD:

Oa3gkTY.jpg


KP3nPCF.jpg



Comparing Kit UU6914129 (SZ32) Central Roman
Precision: 30.0
cM threshold: 1.0
Maximum cM: No Limit
Gap threshold: 2.0 cm's
All SNPs used.

ChrB37 Start Pos'nB37 End Pos'nSNPsCentimorgans (cM)Q
432,653,51234,871,9551181.697.0
ChrB37 Start Pos'nB37 End Pos'nSNPsCentimorgans (cM)Q
1838,728,79539,822,3931291.0918.0

Total cM: 2.79

Largest segment cM: 1.69
Total segments: 2
Total gap-induced breaks: 3
Max gap: 2.34
..... gap: priv.. on chromosome 8
Top 10 Q scores:
Q-score: 18.00
Q-score: 7.00
——————


from Google:
Name: SZ32
1 Italian_Abruzzo @ 4.228703
1 Greek_Macedonia + Greek_Phokaia + Greek_Smyrna + Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS @ 2.410945
 
Last edited:
I wonder if anyone here has info abt. this Iberian / Piedmont individual. He/she shows up at the top of my mother's list.
Her ancestry is Eastern/Northern Treviso, right? Results somewhat similar to my mother's.

yes, you are correct

her maternal lines ...................1719 is the oldest we can go back is from http://www.comune.annoneveneto.ve.it/
through to San Stino di Livenza

She matches 2 x italians from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnic_Alps through to Villach Austria ( surname Zaccar )
Ftdna also has only one Bulgarian and 1 Finn , she also matches
 
... New Upload #2 (NG H) same Ancient pop., different timeline, deep dive has Illyrian, Tracian, Minoan, Central Roman, ...

H7TLLc6.jpg


eMDih9j.jpg


hjEUN1H.jpg
 
Placement on a PCA is not going to determine to whom any of these samples are most closely related. Don't get me wrong: I like PCAs. They're easy to visualize. However, we need all of the statistical tools as well, old as well as new.

I know some people would desperately like Etruscans to be related to their chosen group, or early Romans, or later Imperial Romans, and on and on for every ancient sample. Some people want them to be more "northern"; some more "southern".

The analysis will show what it will show. The important thing is to finally settle some of the greatest mysteries we have about the "identity" of ancient peoples.

@Salento,
No change for me in terms of IBD yet.

If I believed this was the only type of valid analysis, I'd think I was solely descended from Crete Armenoi, since I have an over 4cm match with her.

Alas, my autosomal fit is 22.

So, there you go. :)
 
@Angela MTA limits my uploads. My old kits are gone, but those results all over this Thread :)

Caio G. Cesare kit :grin: (new) Ancient Samples:

Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...

1. Central Roman (590 AD) (11.64) - SZ36
2. Hellenic Roman (590 AD) (11.98) - SZ40
3. Hellenic Roman (670 AD) (12.52) - CL121
4. Central Roman / Mixed (590 AD) (12.6) - SZ19
5. Central Roman (590 AD) (12.69) - SZ32
6. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (13.8) - I9041
7. Central Roman (590 AD) (14.09) - SZ43
8. Hellenic Roman / Dodecanese (670 AD) (14.19) - CL30
9. Hellenic Roman / Calabria (670 AD) (15.43) - CL25
10. Hittite Anatolia (1875 BC) (15.91) - MA2208
11. Hellenic Roman / Cretan (670 AD) (16.07) - CL38
12. Late Roman Iberia Granada (650 AD) (16.11)- I3575
13. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (16.14) - I3808
14. Central Roman (670 AD) (16.73) - CL36
15. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (16.87) - I9010
16. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (515 AD) (17.08) - I3980
17. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (17.11) - I9033
18. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (17.13) - I7424
19. Minoan (2000 BC) (17.33) - I9129
20. Mycenaean (1350 BC) (18.39) - I9006
21. Ostrogoth Crimea (300 AD) (19.28) - Ker1
22. Hittite Anatolia (1875 BC) (20.11) - MA2206
23. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (20.42) - I3581
24. Sicily Beaker (2200 BC) (20.42) - I4930
25. Minoan (2000 BC) (20.56) - I9005
26. Copper Age Anatolia (3800 BC) (20.81) - I0184
27. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) (20.99) - I3576
28. Late Roman Iberia Granada (500 AD) (21.27) - I3582
29. Minoan (2000 BC) (21.54) - I0071
30. Roman Iberia Granada (350 AD) (21.56) - I3983
31. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) (21.72) - I3981
32. Morisco Andalusia Iberia (1550 AD) (22.53)- I7425
33. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (22.78) - SZ28
34. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (23.21) - CL23
35. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (23.26) - scy192
36. Minoan (2000 BC) (23.32) - I9130
37. Minoan (2000 BC) (23.34) - I0074
38. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1100 AD) (23.48)- I2515
39. Minoan (2000 BC) (23.78) - I0070
40. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (23.85) - I4332
41. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (23.85) - I5769
42. Hittite Anatolia (1675 BC) (23.98) - MA2200
43. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1120 AD) (24.04)- I2514
44. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (24.36)- I2647
45. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (24.75)- I2644
46. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1200 BC) (25.37) - I3313
47. Bronze Age Armenia (1500 BC) (25.5) - Rise397
48. Minoan (2000 BC) (25.55) - I0073
49. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (25.82) - I12031
50. Minoan (2000 BC) (26.01) - I9131
51. Roman Iberia Granada (300 AD) (26.02) - I3982
52. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (760 AD) (26.2) - I3585
53. Samaritan (2000 AD) (26.59) - Unknown
54. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (27.06) - SZ45
55. Canaanite (1600 BC) (27.36) - ERS1790729
56. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (27.38) - SZ18
57. Gepid / Goth (450 AD) (27.83) - Vim2
58. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (27.87)- I2649
59. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (27.9) - CL57
60. Ancient Egypt (650 BC) (28.16) - JK2134
 
... new upload #3 (XXIII V) :)
T55i6lD.jpg

s26JTYG.jpg
 
... new upload #3 (XXIII V) :)
T55i6lD.jpg

Hi Salento.
Nice. (y) I'd like to ask you a question. In the previous post you posted as Caio G. Cesare (Caio Júlio César, in Portuguese) and, in this, you posting as his rival, Marco Antonio? LOL. I think Cleopatra must be a bit confused. LOL. My younger brother is called Marco Antonio, and my first name is also composed: Fernando César (Fernando, by my father's request, that was his name, César, a Portuguese form of the Latin Caesar, by my mother's request). Now you know almost my complete real name. Fernando César P. Duarte. LOL. P. is a 100% Portuguese surname but, for now, I will not say what it is. For someone of Portuguese ancestry it is easily deductible. LOLLOL. :LOL: Hugs my dear friend.:grin:
 
My last name is attributed to a gentleman of the Cid. I spoke online with a genealogist who, because of the provenance in Montejaque (Malaga), told me that it could be from a Valencian settler and that the surname had been castellanized through the census, and I discovered that it used to be done in those times. Maybe later I'll do the genealogical study.
 
My last name is attributed to a gentleman of the Cid. I spoke online with a genealogist who, because of the provenance in Montejaque (Malaga), told me that it could be from a Valencian settler and that the surname had been castellanized through the census, and I discovered that it used to be done in those times. Maybe later I'll do the genealogical study.

Hello Carlos.

Good morning. As the hour of Spain is 5 hours after the hour of Brasilia, I'll give you good afternoon (y):)
 
@Duarte
Cleopatra loved Italian Men, Obviously :) Caesar and Mark Antony live through You & Bro!

I chose those names to defy Dr. @Fatherland “Identity Crisis” diagnosis. LOL

I know that I sound totally arrogant, but that's the point, by naming my Kits Cesare, Marco Antonio, and Caligola I’m doubling down and confirming: “I’m comfortable in my own skin” regardless of genetic accuracy.

And it’s also Fun! :)
 
@Duarte
Cleopatra loved Italian Men, Obviously :) Caesar and Mark Antony live through You & Bro!

I chose those names to defy Dr. @Fatherland “Identity Crisis” diagnosis. LOL

I know that I sound totally arrogant, but that's the point, by naming my Kits Cesare, Marco Antonio, and Caligola I’m doubling down and confirming: “I’m comfortable in my own skin” regardless of genetic accuracy.

And it’s also Fun! :)

LMAO :LOL:

Big hug and a nice weekend dear friend (y):)
 
Placement on a PCA is not going to determine to whom any of these samples are most closely related. Don't get me wrong: I like PCAs. They're easy to visualize. However, we need all of the statistical tools as well, old as well as new.

I know some people would desperately like Etruscans to be related to their chosen group, or early Romans, or later Imperial Romans, and on and on for every ancient sample. Some people want them to be more "northern"; some more "southern".

The analysis will show what it will show. The important thing is to finally settle some of the greatest mysteries we have about the "identity" of ancient peoples.
Indeed. I was just kidding when I suggested he could be Venetian, even if the guy had shared ancestry with Iberians rather than being Iberian properly. ;)
MTA results shouldn't be taken literally anyway, as I myself pointed out in this thread. For example, the Illyrian as my closest pop may be useful as a clue, but the distance suggested by the tool must be just "accidental", after all, even if Illyrian and I share ancestry, Veneto was influenced by several other different people in the last millennia, including Romans (South Italians). So... I'm certainly not an Illyrian living fossil. :) On the other hand, Venetians must be related to them in a significant way, compared to many other Italians. I wonder, in Venetian context, if it has something to do with Adriatic Veneti bringing this type of ancestry from Balkans?

Soon we'll have more Etruscans, Romans etc. samples. It'll be interesting to see how we're related to them according to MyTrueAncestry.

As for wanting Romans to be more Northern (Italian?) or Southern, well... It is what it is, as you always say. I think "knowing" how it likely was is better than "what" it was per se. I.e., the biggest pleasure is mostly in having an answer imo. Any, as long as we know it must be close enough to the truth. But of course, when our own ancestry is well explained, it's even better, 'cause the intellectual curiosity tend to be higher here. Normal. I'm particularly happy in knowing Italian genetic history is being studied more deeply.

Plus, If I understand right the leak, even if the first Latins to reach Latium were North Italian-like, they soon became South Italian-like. So the "glory" of Rome would have correlated to a "Southern" autosomal, yes? If I'm not missing something, they did what they did, achieve what they achieve, already as Southerners, in the fashion of Greeks. :)

@Duarte
Do you have by any chance info on this Cisalpine Gaul individual? I confess I didn't know abt. the existance of such sample.

While it may provide clues on real ancestry or shared ancestry, in my opinion it should not be taken too literally.
 
Indeed. I was just kidding when I suggested he could be Venetian, even if the guy had shared ancestry with Iberians rather than being Iberian properly. ;)
MTA results shouldn't be taken literally anyway, as I myself pointed out in this thread. For example, the Illyrian as my closest pop may be useful as a clue, but the distance suggested by the tool must be just "accidental", after all, even if Illyrian and I share ancestry, Veneto was influenced by several other different people in the last millennia, including Romans (South Italians). So... I'm certainly not an Illyrian living fossil. :) On the other hand, Venetians must be related to them in a significant way, compared to many other Italians. I wonder, in Venetian context, if it has something to do with Adriatic Veneti bringing this type of ancestry from Balkans?

Soon we'll have more Etruscans, Romans etc. samples. It'll be interesting to see how we're related to them according to MyTrueAncestry.

As for wanting Romans to be more Northern (Italian?) or Southern, well... It is what it is, as you always say. I think "knowing" how it likely was is better than "what" it was per se. I.e., the biggest pleasure is mostly in having an answer imo. Any, as long as we know it must be close enough to the truth. But of course, when our own ancestry is well explained, it's even better, 'cause the intellectual curiosity tend to be higher here. Normal. I'm particularly happy in knowing Italian genetic history is being studied more deeply.

Plus, If I understand right the leak, even if the first Latins to reach Latium were North Italian-like, they soon became South Italian-like. So the "glory" of Rome would have correlated to a "Southern" autosomal, yes? If I'm not missing something, they did what they did, achieve what they achieve, already as Southerners, in the fashion of Greeks. :)

@Duarte
Do you have by any chance info on this Cisalpine Gaul individual? I confess I didn't know abt. the existance of such sample.

You never even came to my mind in this context, Regio. You're one of the most objective of posters. Some people do, however, have, for personal reasons, their own "ax to grind" as they say in America. :)

This is all conjecture until we have the samples from Moots, this paper if it's different, and hopefully, future ones from lots of other cultures in Italy, including some Terramare, samples from the ancient Veneto, from the Ligures and Celt Ligurians, some samples from the Neolithic and Bronze Age in Calabria, eastern Sicily, Puglia, colonization sites in Magna Graecia, Classical Greece including the islands and on and on, even Greek settlements in Rhodes, for example, or Phocaea.

So, my ideas are just "guesses" as are those of other people here and on other sites. I'm certainly not married to mine, and neither should they be married to theirs.

As for the "accomplishments" of the Romans, they span a huge period from the beginning of the Republic to the Imperial period to the fall. Different types of people may have contributed relatively more to one period than to another. Were the founders and early leaders of the Republic, particularly the "patricians", more "Northern Italian" like? I don't know. Were people like Cicero, a plebeian, more "Northern Italian" like or as a Plebeian more "Southern Italian" like? , Niebur, a 19th century historian, thought the Plebeians were foreigners who settled in early Roman who got citizenship. I don't know and maybe we'll never know. Even if they were foreigners, foreigners from where? Or were they the "original" inhabitants when the Latini arrived? I don't know yet.

"From 494 to 287 BC, the so-called "Conflict of the Orders" resulted in the establishment of plebeian offices (the tribunes and plebeian aediles), the publication of the laws (the Law of the Twelve Tables), the establishment of the right of plebeian–patrician intermarriage (by the passage of the Lex Canuleia), the opening of the highest offices of government and some state priesthoods to the plebeians and passage of legislation (the Lex Hortensia) that made resolutions passed by the assembly of plebeians, the concilium plebis, binding on all citizens."

This inclusion of other groups, often hostile groups, was part of the genius of the Romans, and the thing I like best about them.

"During the Second Samnite War (326–304 BC), plebeians who had risen to power through these social reforms began to acquire the aura of nobilitas, "nobility" (more literally "notability"), marking the creation of a ruling elite of nobiles that allied the interests of patricians and noble plebeians.[2] From the mid-4th century to the early 3rd century BC, several plebeian–patrician "tickets" for the consulship repeated joint terms, suggesting a deliberate political strategy of cooperation.[3] Although nobilitas was not a formal social rank during the Republican era, in general, a plebeian who had attained the consulship was regarded as having brought nobility to his family. Such a man was a novus homo ("new man"), a self-made noble, and his sons and descendants were nobiles.[4]
"Marius and Cicero are notable examples of novi homines in the late Republic, when many of Rome's richest and most powerful men—such as Lucullus, Crassus, and Pompeius—were plebeian nobles. Some or perhaps many noble plebeians, including Cicero and Lucullus, aligned their political interests with the faction of Optimates, conservatives who sought to preserve senatorial prerogatives. By contrast, the Populares, which sought to champion the plebs in the sense of "common people", were sometimes led by patricians such as Julius Caesar and Clodius Pulcher."


Marius famously married into the family of Julius Caesar. By the time of the Empire, we have people like Agrippa, a plebeian of low birth who married into the family of Augustus and whose descendants were Emperors . Was he part "Southern Italian" like? Then we have Livy, who seems to have been from Northern Italy. Many of the engineers who built all those roads and aqueducts all over Europe, and formed the first legions, and managed provinces, and worked in the law courts, helping to create the basis of the law of much of Europe, would have included many Southern Italian like "Romans".


Going all the way back to the earlier Romans, there would have been no Rome without the Etruscans, from whom they borrowed a great deal. However, from whom did the Etruscans learn those things? They learned from the Greeks and the Phoenicians. Cultures build one upon another. Modern populations are similarly one layer of ancient groups on top of another, then subject to drift.

I think there's plenty of "glory" to go around. I find the kind of hyper-identification of certain people on other sites with one group they want to claim as ancestors to the exclusion of all others, and the actual attempt, certainly in the past, to actually want to change the "ethnicity" of certain groups because they don't like their modern descendants really upsetting as well as clearly just wrong both factually and ethically.

Now I sound like a preachy Sunday school teacher, and in a response to someone who has nothing at all to do with the issues that bother me, but I guess I just took the opportunity to "unload" a little bit. Sorry. :)
 
Forgive my ignorance, but what do TSI and IBS stand for next to the red and greenish squares in the key ?

[h=2]Answer:[/h][FONT=&quot]There are 26 different populations which are part of our study from many different locations around the globe. The following table lists these populations and indicates what data we currently have available for them.[/FONT]
Population CodePopulation DescriptionSuper Population CodeSequence Data AvailableAlignment Data AvailableVariant Data Available
CHBHan Chinese in Beijing, ChinaEAS111
JPTJapanese in Tokyo, JapanEAS111
CHSSouthern Han ChineseEAS111
CDXChinese Dai in Xishuangbanna, ChinaEAS111
KHVKinh in Ho Chi Minh City, VietnamEAS111
CEUUtah Residents (CEPH) with Northern and Western European AncestryEUR111
TSIToscani in ItaliaEUR111
FINFinnish in FinlandEUR111
GBRBritish in England and ScotlandEUR111
IBSIberian Population in SpainEUR111
YRIYoruba in Ibadan, NigeriaAFR111
LWKLuhya in Webuye, KenyaAFR111
GWDGambian in Western Divisions in the GambiaAFR111
MSLMende in Sierra LeoneAFR111
ESNEsan in NigeriaAFR111
ASWAmericans of African Ancestry in SW USAAFR111
ACBAfrican Caribbeans in BarbadosAFR111
MXLMexican Ancestry from Los Angeles USAAMR111
PURPuerto Ricans from Puerto RicoAMR111
CLMColombians from Medellin, ColombiaAMR111
PELPeruvians from Lima, PeruAMR111
GIHGujarati Indian from Houston, TexasSAS111
PJLPunjabi from Lahore, PakistanSAS111
BEBBengali from BangladeshSAS111
STUSri Lankan Tamil from the UKSAS111
ITUIndian Telugu from the UKSAS111
[FONT=&quot]These populations have been divided into 5 super populations[/FONT]

  • AFR, African
  • AMR, Ad Mixed American
  • EAS, East Asian
  • EUR, European
  • SAS, South Asian
 
EDIT... delete... redundant...
 

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