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Thread: Mytrueancestry.com

  1. #1126
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    @Angela, you were correct, when I looked at the pca for fs I saw that it was the wrong one. I've corrected my post to include the correct pca. Thank you for commenting on that. The pca that was uploaded was for a mostly European person, not sure how he can match that early Maryland sample. Two other people that I manage do have early 1700's family in Maryland and New Brunswick. FS's family is from North Western Mexico, and for once, family stories of being part AmerIndian are true.

    Sorry everyone

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Your closest Ancient populations...

    Baltic + Avar (3.561)
    Baltic + Kievan Rus (3.915)
    Avar (7.543)
    Baltic (11.96)
    Kievan Rus (13.1)

    Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...

    1. Avar (590 AD) (7.543)
    2. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (8.136)
    3. Late Bronze Age Estonia (660 BC) (8.263)
    4. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (10.17)
    5. Iron Age Saaremaa Oesel (215 BC) (10.5)
    6. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (10.79)
    7. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) (10.81)
    8. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (10.98)
    9. Late Medieval Livonia (1585 AD) (11.33)

    Your closest genetic modern populations...

    1. Lithuanian (3.571)
    2. Belorussian (6.671)
    3. Estonian_Polish (8.287)
    4. Russian_Smolensk (9.207)

  3. #1128
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by brick View Post
    PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Collegno (6th-7th century A.D.), Italy




    PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Szólád (6th century A.D.), Hungary




    PCA with Collegno and Szólád samples


    I decided to poke around with Global25 and PAST. I produced these two PCAs:





    Where were you able to obtain those sub-regional Italian populations? The ones I used in the generic Global25 are not very good or informative, imo.

    Also, if anyone has the coordinates for the Raveane et al 2018 paper, I think that would be very useful.

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I decided to poke around with Global25 and PAST. I produced these two PCAs:





    Where were you able to obtain those sub-regional Italian populations? The ones I used in the generic Global25 are not very good or informative, imo.

    Also, if anyone has the coordinates for the Raveane et al 2018 paper, I think that would be very useful.


    global 25 is just another amateur tool, but the first PCA based on component 1 and component 2 (PC1 and PC2) is more accurate than the second one, which is based on component 1 and component 3 and thus ends up producing less accurate results.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    global 25 is just another amateur tool, but the first PCA based on component 1 and component 2 (PC1 and PC2) is more accurate than the second one, which is based on component 1 and component 3 and thus ends up producing less accurate results.
    Here is a new one I put together with the grouping changed; it is of Southern Europe. I had downloaded the Reich Lab datasets, and checked the locations of the samples, that are in the Global25 data set. I see the Southern Samples are from Cortenza, in Calabria, two from Naples, and one from Crispiano, in Puglia. The Crispiano one is the one in the Abruzzo cluster. They're from Nick Patterson et al 2012. I assume the east and west Sicilian samples are from Syracuse, and Trapani, but I could not verify that.

    I combined the Cretan cluster, with Thessaloniki, to show a more proper range of where Greeks cluster. This also shows how much Western Jews, have received from Greek DNA.

    I included the top ten samples I match with on Mytrueancestry.

    I don't agree with where some of these samples are landing, considering where they did on the actual papers. I would like to figure out how to produce the coordinates myself from the available datasets from the Reich lab.


    Last edited by Jovialis; 26-07-19 at 17:41. Reason: Update

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here is a new one I put together with the grouping changed; it is of Southern Europe. I had downloaded the Reich Lab datasets, and checked the locations of the samples, that are in the Global25 data set. I see the Southern Samples are from Cortenza, in Calabria, two from Naples, and one from Crispiano, in Puglia. The Crispiano one is the one in the Abruzzo cluster. They're from Nick Patterson et al 2012. I assume the east and west Sicilian samples are from Syracuse, and Trapani, but I could not verify that.

    I combined the Cretan cluster, with Thessaloniki, to show a more proper range of where Greeks cluster. This also shows how much Western Jews, have received from Greek DNA.

    I included the top ten samples I match with on Mytrueancestry.

    I don't agree with where some of these samples are landing, considering where they did on the actual papers. I would like to figure out how to produce the coordinates myself from the available datasets from the Reich lab.


    Yes, the east and west Sicilian samples are usually from Syracuse and Trapani.

    Instead Tuscany are 5 individuals from TSI sample based on people who have at least 3 out of 4 grandparents born in Tuscany (so not the best of accuracy. There are many Tuscans who are more northwest than TSI) and Bergamo is based on 6 individuals from Bergamo HGDP (who in total are 13).

    The red label of each population shoul be located where there is the average of the population. Clearly this is on the assumption that the Global25 modern samples are truly accurate and representative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Yes, the east and west Sicilian samples are usually from Syracuse and Trapani.

    Instead Tuscany are 5 individuals from TSI sample based on people who have at least 3 out of 4 grandparents born in Tuscany (so not the best of accuracy. There are many Tuscans who are more northwest than TSI) and Bergamo is based on 6 individuals from Bergamo HGDP (who in total are 13).

    The red label of each population shoul be located where there is the average of the population. Clearly this is on the assumption that the Global25 modern samples are truly accurate and representative.
    I've updated the group to be called TSI. They are indeed from that population sample.




  8. #1133
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I've updated the group to be called TSI. They are indeed from that population sample.

    Yes, I knew that but I checked the G25 spreadsheet. Consider that TSI is the only sample of the Hap Map/1000 genomes project not based on 4/4 native grandparents, but the only one that states that they are only 3 out of 4.

    Italian_South:Bel57 is most likely from Belvedere Marittimo (Bel=Belvedere), province of Cosenza, the northernmost area of Calabria at the border with Basilicata, as written in some old academic studies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belvedere_Marittimo

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    New update with new individuals.

    12. Celtiberian Alemannic Mix (520 AD) (13.46) - STR_535
    34. Ostrogoth Mix (465 AD) (16.5) - AEH_1
    47. North Roman Warrior (605 AD) (18.18) - NS3c
    57. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) (19.89) - AED_1108
    78. Ostrogoth Frankish Mix (410 AD) (22.37) - STR_328
    79. Byzantine Roman Warrior (605 AD) (22.4) - NS3b
    90. Alemanni Celtic Warrior (605 AD) (23.73) - NS10


  10. #1135
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here is a new one I put together with the grouping changed; it is of Southern Europe. I had downloaded the Reich Lab datasets, and checked the locations of the samples, that are in the Global25 data set. I see the Southern Samples are from Cortenza, in Calabria, two from Naples, and one from Crispiano, in Puglia. The Crispiano one is the one in the Abruzzo cluster. They're from Nick Patterson et al 2012. I assume the east and west Sicilian samples are from Syracuse, and Trapani, but I could not verify that.

    I combined the Cretan cluster, with Thessaloniki, to show a more proper range of where Greeks cluster. This also shows how much Western Jews, have received from Greek DNA.

    I included the top ten samples I match with on Mytrueancestry.

    I don't agree with where some of these samples are landing, considering where they did on the actual papers. I would like to figure out how to produce the coordinates myself from the available datasets from the Reich lab.


    This is excellent, Jovialis, especially showing the whole range of Greeks. Did you think of just seeing where "Peloponnese" and "Central Greeks would land or did the author not make those samples publicly available. Reich might have them, although he wasn't on the original paper on the genetics of the Peloponnese.

    This is much more in line with what is shown in the papers in terms of other statistical type tools, and that's with using Global 25 samples which were chosen with who knows what criterion. Congratulations!

    If you have some time at some point, there are academic samples which are labeled Piemonte but are really the border area between Piemonte, the Ligurian Alps etc. They might be from the Estonian Biocenter. I know MDLP got them. Also, would it be a lot of trouble to put CL36 and CL23 on the PCA? They might fit in between Bergamo and Toscana, as, of course, would some Tuscan samples. CL36, at least, comes out Northern Italian sometimes, and Tuscan sometimes. Who knows why Global 25 chose the Tuscan and Bergamo samples they chose.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This is excellent, Jovialis, especially showing the whole range of Greeks. Did you think of just seeing where "Peloponnese" and "Central Greeks would land or did the author not make those samples publicly available. Reich might have them, although he wasn't on the original paper on the genetics of the Peloponnese.

    This is much more in line with what is shown in the papers in terms of other statistical type tools, and that's with using Global 25 samples which were chosen with who knows what criterion. Congratulations!

    If you have some time at some point, there are academic samples which are labeled Piemonte but are really the border area between Piemonte, the Ligurian Alps etc. They might be from the Estonian Biocenter. I know MDLP got them. Also, would it be a lot of trouble to put CL36 and CL23 on the PCA? They might fit in between Bergamo and Toscana, as, of course, would some Tuscan samples. CL36, at least, comes out Northern Italian sometimes, and Tuscan sometimes. Who knows why Global 25 chose the Tuscan and Bergamo samples they chose.
    Thanks! Here's an updated version:



    I got the idea from the Lazaridis PCA that included Cretans and Thessaloniki in the grouping of "Modern Greeks". Also the paper on the Peloponnese indeed confirms the Peloponnesians do cluster next to Cretans. By putting both Crete and Thessaloniki in the same group, it stretched the range.



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    my wife's first 25

    Her family tree states for past 300 years living in different towns along the Livenza river https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livenza


    Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...

    (Smaller numbers mean closer matches to you)

    1. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (6.716) - SZ45 (Click for more info)
    2. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) (8.715) - I4332 (Click for more info)
    3. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (8.715) - I5769 (Click for more info)
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    8. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (10.41) - I12031 (Click for more info)
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    17. Swiss Germanic (670 AD) (11.96) - CL102 (Click for more info)
    18. Central Roman (590 AD) (11.96) - SZ43 (Click for more info)
    19. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) (12.19) - CL47 (Click for more info)
    20. Central Roman (590 AD) (12.61) - SZ32 (Click for more info)
    21. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) (12.75) - AED_1108 (Click for more info)
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    my wife's first 25
    You're a northern Venetian and it would be interesting if you give your G25 coordinates to Jovialis, so we can see where northern Venetians plot in that PCA.

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    Here's another version showing broader ethnic groupings.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I got the idea from the Lazaridis PCA that included Cretans and Thessaloniki in the grouping of "Modern Greeks". Also the paper on the Peloponnese indeed confirms the Peloponnesians do cluster next to Cretans. By putting both Crete and Thessaloniki in the same group, it stretched the range.


    You did well Jovialis showing the whole range of Greeks, also because the G25 for the Greeks uses mainly people from Thessaloniki, northern Greece, who can hardly represent all Greeks.

    And while we're at it, few words on the PCA from Drineas et al. Many populations in that PCA are missing. How can they do a study on Greek Cretans using only a sample from the Peloponnese and not the rest of the Greeks? Then why are populations like Albanians, Kosovars, Macedonians (Fyrom), Bulgarians and Romanians and so on missing? They are populations of South-East Europe that should be there when you study a south eastern European population like the Cretans. A PCA becomes accurate only when you put in all the populations, because PCA are very flexible and the samples change position depending on the populations used. On an individual level in that PCA there are also surprising results: a Sicilian who ends up with the Venetians, a Hungarian who ends up in the Caucasus, another Hungarian who ends up with an Askenazi north of the Peloponnese, a Dane who ends up with the Tuscans, the Armenians too close to the Cretans. The position of the Sardinians is also very strange. Is it possible that in 2019 genetic studies all they can do is produce PCA in this way?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Thanks! Here's an updated version:



    I got the idea from the Lazaridis PCA that included Cretans and Thessaloniki in the grouping of "Modern Greeks". Also the paper on the Peloponnese indeed confirms the Peloponnesians do cluster next to Cretans. By putting both Crete and Thessaloniki in the same group, it stretched the range.


    Thanks, Jovialis. I guess my hunch was correct. That space between Bergamo and TSI is filled with people like Emilians, maybe people from the Lunigiana, maybe even Ligurians (that Piemonte/Ligurian Alps sample)? I'm just guessing about the latter two, but Collegno 36 is definitely Emilian like, and my second closest match ever (around 4). Now it's even clearer why, on gedmatch calculators etc, my best scores were variably 4 or 5 to Bergamo and TSI.

    Good work. :)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Thanks, Jovialis. I guess my hunch was correct. That space between Bergamo and TSI is filled with people like Emilians, maybe people from the Lunigiana, maybe even Ligurians (that Piemonte/Ligurian Alps sample)? I'm just guessing about the latter two, but Collegno 36 is definitely Emilian like, and my closest match ever, in any test (around 3). Now it's even clearer why, on gedmatch calculators etc, my best scores were variably 4 or 5 to Bergamo and TSI.

    Good work. :)
    That the space between Bergamo HGDP and TSI is filled with people like Emilians was already known, I think. And it also filled with Ligurians and also a tiny minority of people from Piedmont, Lombardy itself and even some Venetians. Because Bergamo HGDP is too far west sometimes.

    Anyway personal variation is always underestimated, which is poorly shown in academic studies and is instead very evident in the results with commercial companies. It doesn't change the general trends but it makes everything more nuanced and less sharply outlined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    You're a northern Venetian and it would be interesting if you give your G25 coordinates to Jovialis, so we can see where northern Venetians plot in that PCA.

    which file

    i am already plotted on another site under G25

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    which file

    i am already plotted on another site under G25
    Can you post the PCA with your plot on G25??

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    Level
    19
    Points: 4,333, Level: 19
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 317
    Overall activity: 95.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2-Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    my wife's first 25

    Her family tree states for past 300 years living in different towns along the Livenza river https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livenza


    Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...

    (Smaller numbers mean closer matches to you)


    1. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (6.716) - SZ45 (Click for more info)
    2. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) (8.715) - I4332 (Click for more info)
    3. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (8.715) - I5769 (Click for more info)
    4. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) (8.97) - DA199 (Click for more info)
    5. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (10.04) - SZ18 (Click for more info)
    6. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (10.12) - CL94 (Click for more info)
    7. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (10.26) - SZ28 (Click for more info)
    8. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) (10.41) - I12031 (Click for more info)
    9. Central Roman (670 AD) (10.59) - CL36 (Click for more info)
    10. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) (11.11) - scy311 (Click for more info)
    11. Byzantine Roman Warrior (605 AD) (11.18) - NS3b (Click for more info)
    12. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) (11.23) - I3313 (Click for more info)
    13. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (11.64) - scy192 (Click for more info)
    14. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (11.66) - CL53 (Click for more info)
    15. Medieval Frank (670 AD) (11.83) - CL63 (Click for more info)
    16. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (11.88) - CL57 (Click for more info)
    17. Swiss Germanic (670 AD) (11.96) - CL102 (Click for more info)
    18. Central Roman (590 AD) (11.96) - SZ43 (Click for more info)
    19. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) (12.19) - CL47 (Click for more info)
    20. Central Roman (590 AD) (12.61) - SZ32 (Click for more info)
    21. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) (12.75) - AED_1108 (Click for more info)


    my sisters data up to 13.00

    1. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (7.043) - SZ28 (Click for more info)
    2. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (8.025) - CL94 (Click for more info)
    3. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) (8.049) - I3313 (Click for more info)
    4. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (9.653) - SZ45 (Click for more info)
    5. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (9.762) - CL23 (Click for more info)
    6. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (10.49) - CL57 (Click for more info)
    7. Byzantine Roman Warrior (605 AD) (11.06) - NS3b (Click for more info)
    8. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (760 AD) (12.08) - I3585 (Click for more info)
    9. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) (12.1) - I4332 (Click for more info)
    10. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (12.1) - I5769 (Click for more info)
    11. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (12.22) - scy192 (Click for more info)
    12. Central Roman (670 AD) (12.83) - CL36 (Click for more info)

  21. #1146
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    My 3rd cousin paternal side , data from...... Val di non, Trentino


    1. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (8.012) - SZ45
    2. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (8.377) - CL94
    3. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (8.527) - SZ28
    4. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) (8.618) - I3313
    5. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) (8.805) - I4332
    6. Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC) (8.835) - I5769
    7. Central Roman (670 AD) (9.966) - CL36
    8. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (10.11) - CL23
    9. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (10.43) - scy192
    10. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1100 AD) (10.5) - I2515
    11. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (10.63) - SZ18
    12. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (10.88) - CL57
    13. Central Roman (590 AD) (11.05) - SZ36
    14. Central Roman (590 AD) (11.07) - SZ43
    15. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) (11.3) - DA199
    16. North Roman Warrior (605 AD) (11.62) - NS3c
    17. Medieval Iberian Valencia (1200 AD) (11.69) - I2649
    18. Byzantine Roman Warrior (605 AD) (11.78) - NS3b
    19. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) (12.01) - scy311

  22. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Can you post the PCA with your plot on G25??
    sure from other site
    as soon as i find it i will snip it

  23. #1148
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Can you post the PCA with your plot on G25??
    is this what you are after or did you want my wife?

    below is mine




    or this one




  24. #1149
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    Pax Augusta's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    is this what you are after or did you want my wife?

    below is mine



    This one based on G25. I suppose this PCA was done by Davidski himself. It's the full version of his PCA. Have you a larger version of this one?

  25. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    This one based on G25. I suppose this PCA was done by Davidski himself. It's the full version of his PCA. Have you a larger version of this one?
    no

    I have this one for alpine italy


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