Mytrueancestry.com

... not yet, I just ran the Modern Average, ...

I thought my K36 similarities map was kind of weird, but when compared with the G25 Average sample, it’s actually not that different.

Yeah I thought your similarities map was a bit strange because of the 80's in Lazzio and Cyclades Islands in Greece.
 
Yeah I thought your similarities map was a bit strange because of the 80's in Lazzio and Cyclades Islands in Greece.
that map was from a Combined file, below is an original from Ancestry, and it is even closer to the G25 Apulian,

I picked the first map because imho is a better fit for me, but I could be wrong, and I’m closer to Lazio.

dNi4lqX.jpg


https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34142-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps?p=571524&viewfull=1#post571524
 
Experiment:

G25-Apulia-sample ... K36-like G25 Model vs my K36 similarity map

Almost: the Apulia-G25 gets one of my Top 2 places, (Lazio).

... somewhat similar, I think.

dYB4smv.jpg



my map:
dg9DFqc.jpg
How did you do this run? When I put Apulia average, something else shows up. If those are your coordinates, then never mind. I could not check them. :)

Distance to:
Italian_Apulia
0.00762777Italian_Basilicata
0.00937691Italian_Campania
0.00973705Italian_Abruzzo
0.01395084Italian_Molise
0.01529161Sicilian_East
0.01685879Italian_Calabria
0.01756746Greek_Izmir
0.02022088Italian_Lazio
0.02137402Italian_Marche
0.02184193Sicilian_West
0.02271044Greek_Crete
0.02376687Italian_Umbria
0.02387513Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02395052Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02443098Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02445695Greek_Peloponnese
0.02546236Maltese
0.02567869Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02674970Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02775236Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03064611
Greek_Kos
0.03121197Greek_Thessaly
0.03275858Italian_Tuscany
0.03410245Italian_Jew
0.03882988Albanian



La Lunigiana e' al confino di Liguria, Toscana e Emilia. However, La Spezia is only partially of Liguria, imo. Other people say it's a region al confine di Liguria, Toscana e Emilia. You can see it by the influence of languages, the food (Ours is so good because we're influenced by all three. :)) even in the houses, the artifacts, and perhaps even the phenotype of the people.

What has surprised me about the genetics is that I thought the two sets of mountains, as you say, and even the river, which created a bit of a language border (it was even the administrative border of the Romans) would have created a bigger "break" in the genetics, rather than the cline which I think exists. Whether that was always the case because of the ancient road through the mountains from the Parmense to the sea whether for salt, wheat, or pilgrims, or became much more predominant in more recent times, say, in the 1800s, I don't know. There's even a difference in physical appearance, with the upper Lunigiana having one of the higher rates of blondism in Italy, and the coast darker.

For my father's villages I tend to think they were always different, different even from the residents of Parma itself; drift alone would account for it. Paved roads only went in during the 1920s. (The first settlements were in 900-1000 AD) Before that it was by mule track, and the Bishop's representatives showing up every decade or so in the larger administrative villages, so how much admixing could there have been? Cavalli Sforza had a reason for choosing those villages as the source for his book on genetic drift in Italy.

Anyway, I took a look at the samples. Since I can't input my own coordinates, having never paid Eurogenes for them, it's not going to tell me much. Plus, I think all he did was use the "Sizzi" samples that are at Vahaduo, where I come out Corsican and then equidistant to all three provinces, so let's say I'm not impressed by the representativeness of the samples. :)

These are my results from one of the Dodecad at gedmatch:
#Population (source)Distance
1TSI30 (Metspalu)3.45
2Tuscan (HGDP)5.11
3North_Italian (HGDP)5.58
4N_Italian (Dodecad)5.74
5O_Italian (Dodecad)7.96
6C_Italian (Dodecad)8.13
7Baleares (1000Genomes)14.18
8Greek (Dodecad)15.98
9Sicilian (Dodecad)16.08
10Galicia (1000Genomes)16.2
11S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)16.32

TSI is from north of Firenze, yes?

This is MDLP-I'm pretty sure the "Piedmont" source is actually the set of samples from the mountainous border land between Piemonte, Lombardia, and Emilia from villages which became part of Piemonte very late, and speak mountain Ligurian dialects and even have Ligure in all the names of the villages. It might approximate mountain Emilians. It's impossible for me to say unless someone from the Appennino Tosco-Emiliano near the Parco dei Cento ran this gedmatch calculator. I don't know which Tuscan source he used. Probably not TSI?
#Population (source)Distance
1Italian_Piedmont ( )5.28
2Italian_Bergamo ( )5.95
3Italian_Tuscan ( )7.33
4Italian_North ( )7.82
5Italian_Abruzzo ( )11.68
6Sicilian_Trapani ( )13.63
7Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( )14.21
8German-Volga ( )14.35
9South_German ( )14.61
10Maltese ( )14.73
11Sicilian_West ( )15.24

This is from Vahaduo:
3.35070082France_Corsica
5.88253772Italy_Tuscany
6.05046701Italy_Emilia
6.46549999Italy_Liguria
7.41275253Italy_Romagna
7.49533572Italy_Lombardy
9.37771817Italy_Marche
9.40447500Italy_Piedmont
9.81684050Italy_Veneto
10.41448482Italy_Lazio
11.46905892Swiss_Italian
12.79029632Italy_Trentino
12.93960726Italy_FriuliVG
14.31793630Albanian_Kosovo
14.65967257Albanian_North
14.71938139Italy_Aosta_Valley
14.73174123Italy_Abruzzo
15.70859319Baleares
16.70817483Italy_Campania
17.33728895Italy_Apulia
17.44167136Greek
17.66150517Italy_Sicily
18.04604943Galicia
18.38794442Turk_Macedonia
18.48941589Extremadura

It doesn't seem possible that's the same Piemonte sample that was used above. Probably other "Sizzi" stuff from more western Piemonte?

I seem to be equally distant from all three provinces: Emilia, Toscana, and Liguria. I'm an orphan. :)

I'm ignoring the Corsica number. There are no Corsicans in my ancestry. Maybe whoever is is (one sample again) is from a part of Corsica heavily settled by Tuscans and Ligurians, or he has some recent ancestry from those areas and/or France. The guy who collected it would have to investigate.

For what it's worth there was a PCA posted with all these samples, I think by you, and if I remember correctly, I was closest to the most northern Of the Tuscan samples, and the most southern of the Bergamo samples, which of course makes sense.

You can see why my distance of 2 or 3 to some ancient samples from Pannonia and Piemonte are so surprising to me.
Very interesting. These mountains must be prone to drift, yes. Perhaps your area is a "region" apart genetically.
According to the PCA I shared, there are Italian_Northeast individuals who plot nowhere too. Likely from mountains.

Afaik the TSI are near Firenze, yes, but I don't know from where exactly. My parents and I get Tuscan as our second pop in Dodecad K12b. :)
 
that map was from a Combined file, below is an original from Ancestry, and it is even closer to the G25 Apulian,

I picked the first map because imho is a better fit for me, but I could be wrong, and I’m closer to Lazio.

dNi4lqX.jpg


https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34142-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps?p=571524&viewfull=1#post571524

Still strange that your closest is to Lazio and you're just as likely to be from Salento as you are from Peloponnese, Cyclades and Evoia in Greece. Are you not telling us something, Salento :grin:?
As an explanation, the Venetians had a series of castles in Nafplion (Nauplio in Italian), or Monevasia, Cyclades, and Evoia (Evia).
 
Still strange that your closest is to Lazio and you're just as likely to be from Salento as you are from Peloponnese, Cyclades and Evoia in Greece. Are you not telling us something, Salento :grin:?

please elaborate, I have never been been in those places, ... and what is it that I’m not saying?
 
I ran the G25 Sicilian_West and G25_Sicilian_East as Targets vs. The G25_Target and here is what it gave me. The K36 results are my similarity(s) using my own Ancestry DNA results. The individual averages are interesting but I don't know where the 6 different Sicilian Samples are from.

Distance to:Sicilian_West
0.01705574Sicilian_East
0.02137064Maltese
0.02159808Italian_Abruzzo
0.02184193Italian_Apulia
0.02187507Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02303621Italian_Campania
0.02317639Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02333851Italian_Basilicata
0.02409976Italian_Molise
0.02466347Italian_Lazio
0.02504179Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02527071Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02610298Italian_Marche
0.02653814Italian_Calabria
0.02729268Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02869116Italian_Umbria
0.02878019Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03169877Greek_Izmir
0.03407542Italian_Tuscany
0.03502312Greek_Crete
0.03572330Italian_Jew
0.03590856Greek_Thessaly
0.03700195Greek_Peloponnese
0.03993268Sephardic_Jew
0.04120246French_Corsica

Distance to:Sicilian_East
0.01529161Italian_Apulia
0.01530410Italian_Campania
0.01705574Sicilian_West
0.01720579Italian_Basilicata
0.01821389Italian_Calabria
0.01975600Italian_Abruzzo
0.02073139Maltese
0.02179425Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02193162Italian_Molise
0.02197046Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02410308Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02453768Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02497703Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02585199Greek_Crete
0.02649162Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02725713Italian_Lazio
0.02745448Greek_Izmir
0.02848957Italian_Marche
0.02895862Italian_Jew
0.03190648Italian_Umbria
0.03359257Sephardic_Jew
0.03429898Greek_Kos
0.03476358Greek_Peloponnese
0.03835935Romaniote_Jew
0.03854060Greek_Thessaly


Capture_K36.JPG
 
please elaborate, I have never been been in those places, ... and what is it that I’m not saying?

I just went by the general areas on the map where you have a score of 79. All those areas I mentioned are close to the places on the map you have a score of 79. It just so happens that those areas had scores of Venetian castles. So what I'm joking about is that maybe you had an ancestor in the employ of the Venetians that left their progeny in those places.
 
I just went by the general areas on the map where you have a score of 79. All those areas I mentioned are close to the places on the map you have a score of 79. It just so happens that those areas had scores of Venetian castles. So what I'm joking about is that maybe you had an ancestor in the employ of the Venetians that left their progeny in those places.

... I paid for this, got a lot more:

Et4Tplb.jpg


Y8a72Xb.jpg
 
Salento: Interesting and nice results in post 2586. Closest to Lazio and you had some really close Republican Roman distances on MTA. Nice time series of genetic continuity in my view. What is the source of those results? In addition to Provincial Palermo and Trapani, one of my Great Grandfathers was born in a mountain town in Agrigento called Cammarrata, it is like 5,200 feet in the mountains.

Quick question, those G25 comparisons you did, are those your own coordinates are just something you came up with to do comparison as an experiment as you were alluding to in an earlier post.

Thanks, PT
 
Salento: Interesting and nice results in post 2586. Closest to Lazio and you had some really close Republican Roman distances on MTA. Nice time series of genetic continuity in my view. What is the source of those results? In addition to Provincial Palermo and Trapani, one of my Great Grandfathers was born in a mountain town in Agrigento called Cammarrata, it is like 5,200 feet in the mountains.

Quick question, those G25 comparisons you did, are those your own coordinates are just something you came up with to do comparison as an experiment as you were alluding to in an earlier post.

Thanks, PT

The G25 coordinates are NOT mine, ... those belong to the G25 Apulian from Vahaduo G25 modern average,
... I compared his/her G25 - k36 results with my K36 similarity map results.


...#2586 Maps are from:

kNRX4aI.jpg
 
... pick and choose ... (from the same file as above)
9hrFnqt.jpg


eXajaJL.jpg
 
Hi friends.
I think this tool of LM Genetics very cool to make a comparative analysis of the Eu K36 and MyTrueAncestry.com’s results. This is my ethnicity according to this tool, just to knowledge. I wish all a nice week.

rFh4MaG.png



PnM5ccH.png

pibSiNZ.png

aZdV5gf.jpg

RAjegI8.jpg

2xHHdz2.jpg

BEn37Bo.jpg


PBNyR84.jpg

YbZY8mn.jpg

5XOfkMN.jpg
 
Last edited:
How did you do this run? When I put Apulia average, something else shows up. If those are your coordinates, then never mind. I could not check them. :)

Distance to:Italian_Apulia
0.00762777Italian_Basilicata
0.00937691Italian_Campania
0.00973705Italian_Abruzzo
0.01395084Italian_Molise
0.01529161Sicilian_East
0.01685879Italian_Calabria
0.01756746Greek_Izmir
0.02022088Italian_Lazio
0.02137402Italian_Marche
0.02184193Sicilian_West
0.02271044Greek_Crete
0.02376687Italian_Umbria
0.02387513Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02395052Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02443098Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02445695Greek_Peloponnese
0.02546236Maltese
0.02567869Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02674970Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02775236Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03064611Greek_Kos
0.03121197Greek_Thessaly
0.03275858Italian_Tuscany
0.03410245Italian_Jew
0.03882988Albanian
I didn’t run your ran, lol

... got it from this page:
Eurogenes K36-like G25 Model

http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/K36-like model.htm

I ran this average Apulian coordinates:

Italian_Apulia,0.1107119,0.1482673,-0.0037713,-0.0401381,0.0158388,-0.0151159,-0.0009557,-0.0016153,0.0027951,0.0206898,-0.0002273,0.0038765,-0.0064717,0.0011929,-0.0081071,-0.0038982,0.0016691,0.0005997,0.0027485,-0.0051524,-0.0038098,0.0019619,0.0017584,0.0014379,-0.0005667

dYB4smv.jpg
 
I ran the G25 Sicilian_West and G25_Sicilian_East as Targets vs. The G25_Target and here is what it gave me. The K36 results are my similarity(s) using my own Ancestry DNA results. The individual averages are interesting but I don't know where the 6 different Sicilian Samples are from.

Distance to:Sicilian_West
0.01705574Sicilian_East
0.02137064Maltese
0.02159808Italian_Abruzzo
0.02184193Italian_Apulia
0.02187507Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02303621Italian_Campania
0.02317639Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02333851Italian_Basilicata
0.02409976Italian_Molise
0.02466347Italian_Lazio
0.02504179Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02527071Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02610298Italian_Marche
0.02653814Italian_Calabria
0.02729268Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02869116Italian_Umbria
0.02878019Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03169877Greek_Izmir
0.03407542Italian_Tuscany
0.03502312Greek_Crete
0.03572330Italian_Jew
0.03590856Greek_Thessaly
0.03700195Greek_Peloponnese
0.03993268Sephardic_Jew
0.04120246French_Corsica

Distance to:Sicilian_East
0.01529161Italian_Apulia
0.01530410Italian_Campania
0.01705574Sicilian_West
0.01720579Italian_Basilicata
0.01821389Italian_Calabria
0.01975600Italian_Abruzzo
0.02073139Maltese
0.02179425Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02193162Italian_Molise
0.02197046Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02410308Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02453768Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02497703Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02585199Greek_Crete
0.02649162Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02725713Italian_Lazio
0.02745448Greek_Izmir
0.02848957Italian_Marche
0.02895862Italian_Jew
0.03190648Italian_Umbria
0.03359257Sephardic_Jew
0.03429898Greek_Kos
0.03476358Greek_Peloponnese
0.03835935Romaniote_Jew
0.03854060Greek_Thessaly


View attachment 12137


nice results :)

... but I ran the Eurogenes K36-like G25 Model:

http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/K36-like model.htm

... there’s been some confusion, ... :)
 
Salento: Ok, I think I got it. You took the G25 modern average coordinates and put them in the Target in the G25/K36 like calculator.
 
Salento: Following your experiment, top 20 distances. The source Populations in that spreadsheet have nothing South of Lazio. So I get Lazio as my closest distance, then Tuscany, before 2 Greek and 1 Albanian sample, which seems to be reasonably consistent with my K36 results in post #2584. Congrats, I think your experiment went quite well!!

Distance to:Sicilian_West
0.02466347Italian:Italian_Lazio
0.03423003Italian:Italian_Tuscany
0.03831792Balkan:Greek_Crete
0.03948460Balkan:Greek
0.04335072Balkan:Albanian
0.04444277Italian:Swiss_Italian
0.04721869Italian:Italian_Liguria
0.05039409Italian:Italian_Lombardy
0.05299246Italian:Italian_Bergamo
0.05708771Balkan:Gagauz
0.06013053Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Andalucia
0.06117780Ibérian_péninsula:portuguese
0.06143145Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Canarias
0.06232845East_Mediterranean:Cyprus22AJ19
0.06266712East_Mediterranean:Cyprus24AJ19
0.06386621Balkan:Bulgarian
0.06727670Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.06733453East_Mediterranean:CYP19
0.06849467East_Mediterranean:CYP2
0.06885908Balkan:Macedonian
 
I'm in a position to always take the results of the G25 with a grain of salt, since it's incomplete with samples in my area.
So the autosomal proximity begins to wander between Liguria, Lombardy/Bergamo, Piedmont, Tuscany and the combinations become rather exotic assemblies (on balance a little better the k36-like G25 model compared to the G25 Modern Averages scaled)

G25 average scaled

Distance to: G25Stuvanè_scaled


0.02559946 Italian_Liguria
0.02578946 Italian_Lombardy
0.02784830 Italian_Piedmont
0.02890115 Greek_Thessaly
0.03085707 Italian_Marche
0.03108708 Italian_Tuscany
0.03117244 Italian_Bergamo
0.03395817 Swiss_Italian
0.03488089 Albanian
0.03593146 Italian_Veneto
0.03611197 French_Corsica
0.03679646 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03723127 Italian_Lazio
0.03774512 Italian_Umbria
0.03885696 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04076855 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04101491 Italian_Molise
0.04173885 Italian_Northeast
0.04317431 Gagauz
0.04330361 Sicilian_West
0.04422228 Italian_Apulia
0.04518076 Spanish_Menorca
0.04574888 Moldovan
0.04611094 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04625298 Sicilian_East

Target: G25Stuvanè_scaled
Distance: 1.8448% / 0.01844770


60.6 Italian_Lombardy
13.4 Italian_Liguria
9.4 Sicilian_East
6.4 Russian_Smolensk
5.6 Greek_Trabzon
4.6 Samaritan

K36-like G25 Model


Distance to: G25Stuvanè_scaled


0.02559946 Italian:Italian_Liguria
0.02578946 Italian:Italian_Lombardy
0.03117244 Italian:Italian_Bergamo
0.03136743 Italian:Italian_Tuscany
0.03395817 Italian:Swiss_Italian
0.03488089 Balkan:Albanian
0.03674054 Balkan:Greek
0.03723127 Italian:Italian_Lazio
0.04317431 Balkan:Gagauz
0.04805838 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Andalucia
0.04837068 Balkan:Bulgarian
0.05128531 Balkan:Macedonian
0.05384627 Ibérian_péninsula:portuguese
0.05487882 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.06261084 France:French_Occitanie
0.06261084 Ibérian_péninsula:French_Occitanie
0.06501205 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Canarias
0.06582162 Balkan:Greek_Crete
0.06834854 France:French_South
0.07114461 France:French_Paris
0.07202104 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.07309467 North_atlantic:Belgian
0.07718567 Central_European:Austrian
0.08184306 Basque:BAS33
0.08337047 Eastern_Europe:Hungarian

Target: G25Stuvanè_scaled
Distance: 1.7589% / 0.01758910


67.8 Italian
19.6 East_Mediterranean
8.6 Eastern_Europe
2.0 North_Sea
2.0 West_Mediterranean
 
I'm in a position to always take the results of the G25 with a grain of salt, since it's incomplete with samples in my area.
So the autosomal proximity begins to wander between Liguria, Lombardy/Bergamo, Piedmont, Tuscany and the combinations become rather exotic assemblies (on balance a little better the k36-like G25 model compared to the G25 Modern Averages scaled)

G25 average scaled

Distance to: G25Stuvanè_scaled


0.02559946 Italian_Liguria
0.02578946 Italian_Lombardy
0.02784830 Italian_Piedmont
0.02890115 Greek_Thessaly
0.03085707 Italian_Marche
0.03108708 Italian_Tuscany
0.03117244 Italian_Bergamo
0.03395817 Swiss_Italian
0.03488089 Albanian
0.03593146 Italian_Veneto
0.03611197 French_Corsica
0.03679646 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03723127 Italian_Lazio
0.03774512 Italian_Umbria
0.03885696 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04076855 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04101491 Italian_Molise
0.04173885 Italian_Northeast
0.04317431 Gagauz
0.04330361 Sicilian_West
0.04422228 Italian_Apulia
0.04518076 Spanish_Menorca
0.04574888 Moldovan
0.04611094 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04625298 Sicilian_East

Target: G25Stuvanè_scaled
Distance: 1.8448% / 0.01844770


60.6 Italian_Lombardy
13.4 Italian_Liguria
9.4 Sicilian_East
6.4 Russian_Smolensk
5.6 Greek_Trabzon
4.6 Samaritan

K36-like G25 Model


Distance to: G25Stuvanè_scaled


0.02559946 Italian:Italian_Liguria
0.02578946 Italian:Italian_Lombardy
0.03117244 Italian:Italian_Bergamo
0.03136743 Italian:Italian_Tuscany
0.03395817 Italian:Swiss_Italian
0.03488089 Balkan:Albanian
0.03674054 Balkan:Greek
0.03723127 Italian:Italian_Lazio
0.04317431 Balkan:Gagauz
0.04805838 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Andalucia
0.04837068 Balkan:Bulgarian
0.05128531 Balkan:Macedonian
0.05384627 Ibérian_péninsula:portuguese
0.05487882 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.06261084 France:French_Occitanie
0.06261084 Ibérian_péninsula:French_Occitanie
0.06501205 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Canarias
0.06582162 Balkan:Greek_Crete
0.06834854 France:French_South
0.07114461 France:French_Paris
0.07202104 Ibérian_péninsula:Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.07309467 North_atlantic:Belgian
0.07718567 Central_European:Austrian
0.08184306 Basque:BAS33
0.08337047 Eastern_Europe:Hungarian

Target: G25Stuvanè_scaled
Distance: 1.7589% / 0.01758910


67.8 Italian
19.6 East_Mediterranean
8.6 Eastern_Europe
2.0 North_Sea
2.0 West_Mediterranean

Stuvane: Looks like it does a pretty good job. How well goes G25 perform for you relative to other calculators? I have no clue how it does for me as I don't have my personal G25 coordinates.
 
Stuvane: Looks like it does a pretty good job. How well goes G25 perform for you relative to other calculators? I have no clue how it does for me as I don't have my personal G25 coordinates.

Hi Palermo,


It depends. As always, the richer (and more accurate) the set of samples is, the more the oracle works better. If there is nothing in the samples really resembling you in the autosomal, it will take the immediately following groups of peoples as a reference and play by building averages or combinations with them.
So, if Romagnols and Eastern Emilians can be modeled as descendants of mainly Protovillanovian and Villanovan substrates (with subsequent Gallic, Italic-Roman and Greek-Balkan contributions), I would tend to give credit to the computers that manage to position me in the PCA near 1) Tuscans 2) North Italians in the case of modern oracles.
In the case of the ancient oracles I seem to understand that they are quite valid especially those that approach me to the Proto-italic / Proto-picen sample of Martinsicuro, to the Italian/Roman/Tuscan-like ones of Szolad and Collegno and some Roman samples of the late imperial age, whose autosomal is now comparable to both the Tuscan and some central Italians and to the Venetic ones (or intermediate to them).


That said, for what is my personal and questionable experience I would say that the G25 (both in the version of Ancient Individual samples and of Averages ancient) gives more precise results than analogous ones that work on modern populations.
Among the various other Vahaduo calculators, the updated sets of the Dodecad and Eurogenes (ancient and modern) seem to me equally valid, more than anything else because modern Emilia and Romagna samples that are missing in G25 have been included (although Eurogenes is more discussed for various questions: in my case I would opt for the Eurogenes K13 for a number of reasons that I don't mention here).

Now I wouldn't be wrong, but I think the MTA oracle is in fact a version of Eurogenes k15 or something very similar. I cannot complain about the PCA and its oracles, but MTA has objective limits in the way it classifies or names its ancient peoples, often favoring the curiosity of its users for marketing reasons, to the detriment of historical and archaeological accuracy. It should be used very critically

:unsure:

My MTA results

Closest ancient population

Roman (6.512)
Roman + Illyrian (6.618)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (7.208)
Al-Andalus + Roman (8.368)
Roman Hispania + Roman (8.565)
Roman Hispania + Illyrian (9.632)
Gallo-Roman (11.36)
Illyrian (11.75)
Roman Hispania (14.23)
Al-Andalus (16.42)

image.py



Modern populations

1. Tuscan (8.092)
2. Kosovar (8.879)
3. North_Italian (9.731)
4. Albanian_Tosk (11.72)
5. West_Sicilian (11.97)
6. Italian_Abruzzo (12.10)
7. Greek (12.77)
8. Bulgarian (14.50)

image.py
 

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