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Jovialis, I've got that R437 and I'm not italian:

83. Latin Prenestini Tribe Inland PS (300 BC) ..... 17.26 - R437 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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94
% match vs all users

What do you think about it?


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I don't know, but I do know I have a relatively close similarity to Southern Albanians. Perhaps that may have something to do with it.
 
Frankly, I wouldn't use MTA to draw any conclusions or make any assumptions.
They had obviously different culture but this is more evident later, after the ethnogenesis of both, it's hard to explain. But there are also some differences between Latins and other Italics.
The Etruscan language has been translated, it's difficult to make progress in the knowledge of the Etruscan language because of the type of inscriptions that have survived, which are very repetitive and short and do not allow great improvements. Besides, the literary texts in the Etruscan language didn't survive.
Archaic Latin is also very little attested, even less attested than the Etruscan language. Much of what we know about Latin comes from texts from the IV century BC onwards.
But what is your (their) take on those samples though? Even without MTA, I would assume I have a close affinity to R850 and R437, they plot close to southern Italians. Plus, the study models them consistent to what we assume about bronze-age/ iron age southern Italy. (High in Anatolian_N+CHG/IN)
 
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But what is your (their) take on those samples though? Even without MTA I would assumed I would have a close affinity to R850 and R437, they plot close to southern Italians. Plus, the study models them consistent to what we assume about bronze-age/ iron age southern Italy. (High in Anatolian_N+CHG/IN)

Yes R850 has 48% of Anatolian north or as some say Barcin

but this is what one reports says

As a conclusion, individual R850 carries ancestry equal to and very similar to "Copper Age Anatolia", "Greece_Mycenaean", "Anatolia_MLBA" and "Anatolia_IA.SG". So individual R850 has a contitunity of ancestry from Copper Age until the Iron Age of Anatolia and is is very close to Mycenaean from the Aegean. This pattern is not seen in the preceding and other individuals. The study mentions that individual R850 carries more ancestry from the incoming source, showing that he is an Early Iron Age migrant from Anatolian / Aegean region and fits an ancestry pattern of the thesis of "minority migrant elite Etruscans". This pattern is clearly indicating the migration mentioned in the ancient sources made by the Pelasgian population. The Rutuli is also clearly an Etruscan elite group located in the Ardean city (in a region in which the Latins are majority), and probably related to the ancestry of early Iron Age Etruscan kings in Rome (whom became Latinized in the subsequent periods).

The Etruscan female individual R475 carries ~53% ancestry from Late Neolithic Moroccan. Late Neolithic Moroccan ancestry is most likely related to the 3000 BCE, the Neolithic site of Kelif el Boroud (Fregel et al 2018). The individual with id "KEB" belonged to Y-haplogroup T-CTS2214 living on the Atlantic coast. So, although individual R475 is an Etruscan female, the ancestry can also be related to the timeline of Y-haplogroup T . The Late Neolithic site of Kelif el Boroud is also probably related to the Eneolithic / Chalcolithic geographical migration of a population mentioned in the Harney et al 2018 study, the Late Chalcolithic Peqi'in people from the Levant with Y-haplogroup T were hypothesized to come from the earlier Neolithic Northern Anatolian region with specific ancestry from "Anatolia_N" and "Iran_Chl" (this is not seen in the preceding and subsequent Levantine populations). These T people left the Levant through Anatolia and eventually to Iberia, crossing the sea to Morocco. There is no T-CTS2214 in North Africa except in Morocco with the KEB sample. The "Anatolia_N" ancestry among the Peqi'in people is unique.
 
Although there is no direct historical or genetic information about the origins of Rome, archaeological evidence suggests that in the early Iron Age, it was a small city-state, among many culturally and politically similar Etruscan and Latin neighbors (24–26). Their contact with Greek and Phoenician-Punic colonies is evident in the incorporation of materials not available locally, such as ivory, amber, and ostrich eggshell, and design motifs such as lions, sphinxes, and palmettes, into Etruscan art and culture (3, 6).
The Iron Age individuals exhibit highly variable ancestries, hinting at multiple sources of migration into the region during this period (Figs. 2A and 3B). Although we were able to model eight of the 11 individuals as two-way mixtures of Copper Age central Italians and a Steppe-related population (~24 to 38%) using qpAdm, this model was rejected for the other three individuals (p < 0.001; table S16). Instead, two individuals from Latin sites (R437 and R850) can be modeled as a mixture between local people and an ancient Near Eastern population (best approximated by Bronze Age Armenian or Iron Age Anatolian; tables S17 and S18). An Etruscan individual (R475) carries significant African ancestry identified by f-statistics (|Z-score|>3; fig. S23) and can be modeled with ~53% ancestry from Late Neolithic Moroccan (table S19). Together these results suggest substantial genetic heterogeneity within the Etruscan (n = 3 individuals) and Latin (n = 6) groups. However, using f-statistics, we did not find significant genetic differentiation between the Etruscans and Latins in allele sharing with any preceding or contemporaneous population (|Z-score|<2), although the power to detect subtle genetic differentiation is limited by the small sample size.
An excerpt from the study.

4 of the 6 Latins were similar to Etruscans.

It is a small sample size, so one could look at those 2 "outliers" as accounting for 1/3rd or 33% of the Latin samples.

I think that's significant.
 
@jovialis: Yes maybe, we can only see if other albanians share.
 
Deep Dive:

u29HvsP.gif
 
@Duarte
Thanks, 🏛️ 🐺 👍 😀
 
But what is your (their) take on those samples though? Even without MTA, I would assume I have a close affinity to R850 and R437, they plot close to southern Italians. Plus, the study models them consistent to what we assume about bronze-age/ iron age southern Italy. (High in Anatolian_N+CHG/IN)


I don't think the MTA is an accurate tool so I don't have any take.

To draw further conclusions we need more samples, and of course also those from southern Italy between Bronze and Iron Age.

It only takes patience, it is useless to spend time now formulating hypotheses without further information. In my opinion.
 
These Ancient samples found in Italy are a close enough match to the Italians.
I don't see where the problem is.

... 23andme (old v4):


Top 40
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Deep Dive (cM)
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PCAsimpaticona2kits.JPEG


Me and the other

PCA 2 kits
 
I was able to convert the BAM file of R850 into AncestryDNA format. I tried to upload it to Gedmatch, but it didn't work, but it does on MTA. I'm waiting on the results from the All format file.

Interesting results, it is almost all blue for the Deep dive, but it get's itself as number 17 at 13.22 distance. Keep in mind, this is in Ancestry format:


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They have loaded samples of the Kingdom of Tartessos. Oh my good !!!
 
@Jovialis ... got the same error at GedMatch, good at yourdnaportal.

.Bam to Combined

R437 Latin Prenestini Tribe Inland PS 300 BC


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Q-Matching 1-to-1 with R1
(Comb. R1 Kit # on Pic)

Total cM: 124.28
Largest segment cM 4.09
Total segments 95


4B3u1kt.gif
 
R1 is a Woman, and according to the data results, her parents are NOT related ... Interesting ...

Largest segment = 0.0 cM
Total of segments > 7 cM = 0.0 cM
No shared DNA segments found
No indication that your parents are related.
 
R1 is a Woman, and according to the data results, her parents are NOT related ... Interesting ...
Largest segment = 0.0 cM
Total of segments > 7 cM = 0.0 cM
No shared DNA segments found
No indication that your parents are related.
Not related , what you mean..
I thought she was born in Liburnia and migrated to Picene lands with one parent....a serf/slave of the house
 
Not related , what you mean..
I thought she was born in Liburnia and migrated to Picene lands with one parent....a serf/slave of the house
is she part of Your Childhood memories? :grin: LOL

I mean that her parents are not closely related. IE not cousins!
(or maybe, one of them is not a Local)

... R1 Top 10 by Era:
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Neolithic Age


NeolithicPattern.jpg

32. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) ..... 14.31 - I3499 -
Top 98% match vs all users

Early Bronze Age


ScandiaBronze.jpg

33. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.39 - I4332 -
Top 95% match vs all users

38. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 15.0 - I4331 -
Top 93% match vs all users

93. [Hidden] - upgrade to Zeus ..... 19.25 - OTTM_151ind2 - = Celtic Bavarian woman, mtdna X2b
Top 94% match vs all users


Late Bronze Age


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1. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 5.076 - R1 -
Top 99% match vs all users

4. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 8.937 - I3313 -
Top 98% match vs all users

52. Thraco-Cimmerian Black Sea (900 BC) ..... 15.89 - MJ12 -
Top 97% match vs all users

Iron Age


ScandiaIron.jpg

7. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 10.0 - scy197b - ?
Top 98% match vs all users

17. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 12.35 - scy192 -
Top 97% match vs all users

24. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 13.52 - scy300 -
Top 98% match vs all users

31. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 14.25 - scy305 -
Top 96% match vs all users

41. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 15.24 - scy311 -
Top 62% match vs all users

65. [Hidden] - upgrade to Zeus ..... 16.7 - DA195 - found in Hungaria woman, mtdna H
Top 92% match vs all users

84. [Hidden] - upgrade to Zeus ..... 18.58 - DA198 - found in Hungaria, G-PF3378, mtdna H7a1
Top 94% match vs all users

94. [Hidden] - upgrade to Zeus ..... 19.26 - scy304 - found in Moldova R1b-Z2103
Top 95% match vs all users

 

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