Mytrueancestry.com

I don't know about some of this.

I used to share with two people from Massa. They were more "southern" than TSI, and it had nothing to do with admixture. I do think that the Roman Era had some impact on many of the Tuscan and Northern Italian genomes as well, in the particular case of that part of Italy it being the establishment of Luni and then the dispersal of those people with the dislocations caused by the fall of Rome.

I do agree that western Tuscans have more ties, perhaps, to the western Med than to the Adriatic side.

All of these speculations would need a detailed genetic analysis of samples from all over Toscana, I think.

It depends, there is too much individual variation, few individuals are unrepresentative. I have seen people from Massa who were very similar instead to those from La Spezia. Then it depends on the tool and which components are used to draw a PCA. For example in the study on the Longobards in a PCA Tuscan HGDP (which certainly comes from southern Tuscany) is north of TSI.

Of course yes, for these speculations we would need samples from all over the region. That applies to any region.

kA73p4K.png
 
It depends, there is too much individual variation, few individuals are unrepresentative. I have seen people from Massa who were very similar instead to those from La Spezia. Then it depends on the tool and which components are used to draw a PCA. For example in the study on the Longobards in a PCA Tuscan HGDP (which certainly comes from southern Tuscany) is north of TSI.

Of course yes, for these speculations we would need samples from all over the region. That applies to any region.

kA73p4K.png

Well, that's certainly odd.
 
@Pax
Yeah, those densities matter, unless we were talking on averages among provinces. Then we'd possibly get a bit different picture?
I really forgot of these "west-east" gradients. So the best Tuscan average would be likely more to the West. Ok.
 
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Prem. Map (default): Your closest matches from Ancient Times...
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Are your prior matches included on here?

I'd like to compare our scores more precisely. Do you have the sample numbers for these matches?

Also, did you post all of your 60 matches?

I don't have the full subscription, so I just have my top 20 matches and no sample numbers :(
But yes, many of my previous matches are there, like Central Roman and Byzantine Roman Warrior.
 
mapaamericaIcelander.JPEG

The first time I get something on this map.

Now seeing the image of this wonderful continent makes me think about my 150 samples and seeing them I say: I am Europe because if those 150 samples were to give an example of the Bronze what could I say, what am I of the bronze? I also have hehe
 
Is it based on G25 or K15?

Well, it's just one more tool for clues anyway, not a "given truth". :)
We discussed these "convergences" before. It's not that we're living fossils of ancient people (I'm myself very close to an ancient sample according to MTA), but this convergence, even if in part accidental, may point to some relevant (shared) ancestry. It'd work roughly like an Oracle, as far as I can see. Still, if they really use K15, I wonder why they haven't chosen K36, with so many more clusters. The similarity tool based on K36 looks good, perhaps the only exception being more drifted pops such Sardinians (West Med) and Basques. Clusters and pop references too close here.

As for 1000 Genomes and Tuscany, the samples would came all from FI?
https://topseudoscience.wordpress.com/2017/07/30/how-representative-are-1000-genomes-samples/
(...)
"The Tuscan sample from Italy was collected in a single small town, hence is biased towards rural people of a specific town. Similarly, the British sample is rural, although scattered around a wider area."
(...)
"TSI (Toscani in Italia): These cell lines and DNA samples were prepared from blood samples collected in a small town near Florence in the Tuscany region of Italy. All of the samples are from unrelated individuals who identified themselves as having at least three out of four Tuscan grandparents."

Notice also that only three Tuscan grandparents were mandatory, not four. This info may be confirmed in the following link, related to one of the samples:
https://www.coriell.org/0/Sections/Search/Sample_Detail.aspx?Ref=NA20536&PgId=166
"Remarks: 'At least three out of four grandparents were born in Tuscany'"

Don't know if any of them had an "outsider" grandparent. Still...

@Regio X. MTA is based on K15, as said @Pax Augusta in the post #1932 :
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Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.2 12/11/2019
Finished reading population data. 224 populations found.
15 components mode.
--------------------------------

Mixed Mode:

1 84,96% Portuguese + 15,04% Gokhem2 @ 4,993
2 91,99% Portuguese + 8,01% Oetzi @ 5,753
3 84,18% Spanish_Extremadura + 15,82% Gokhem2 @ 5,762
4 92,38% Portuguese + 7,62% Sardinian @ 5,766
5 87,70% Spanish_Cantabria + 12,30% Algerian @ 5,805
6 93,95% Portuguese + 6,05% NE6 @ 5,812
7 83,01% Spanish_Galicia + 16,99% Gokhem2 @ 5,818
8 66,99% Portuguese + 33,01% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5,826
9 87,70% Spanish_Cantabria + 12,30% Mozabite_Berber @ 5,956
10 50,20% Spanish_Cantabria + 49,80% Portuguese @ 5,957

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Portuguese @ 6,307
2 100% Spanish_Extremadura @ 7,061
3 100% Spanish_Galicia @ 7,266
4 100% Spanish_Cantabria @ 7,599
5 100% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 7,610
6 100% Spanish_Murcia @ 7,861
7 100% Spanish_Cataluna @ 7,974
8 100% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 9,083
9 100% Spanish_Andalucia @ 9,423
10 100% Spanish_Valencia @ 9,669

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Portuguese + 50% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5,954
2 50% Spanish_Cantabria + 50% Spanish_Galicia @ 6,008
3 50% Portuguese + 50% Portuguese @ 6,307
4 50% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 50% Spanish_Galicia @ 6,450
5 50% Spanish_Andalucia + 50% Spanish_Galicia @ 6,456
6 50% Portuguese + 50% Spanish_Extremadura @ 6,510
7 50% Spanish_Cantabria + 50% Spanish_Extremadura @ 6,563
8 50% Spanish_Extremadura + 50% Spanish_Galicia @ 6,584
9 50% Portuguese + 50% Spanish_Galicia @ 6,625
10 50% Spanish_Galicia + 50% Spanish_Murcia @ 6,665

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Orcadian + 33% Sardinian + 33% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5,807
2 33% Orcadian + 33% Sardinian + 33% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5,813
3 33% Orcadian + 33% Sardinian + 33% Spanish_Murcia @ 5,817
4 33% Portuguese + 33% Portuguese + 33% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5,826
5 33% Orcadian + 33% Sardinian + 33% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5,875
6 33% Portuguese + 33% Spanish_Cantabria + 33% Spanish_Galicia @ 5,883
7 33% Oetzi + 33% Orcadian + 33% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5,943
8 33% Oetzi + 33% Orcadian + 33% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5,993
9 33% Orcadian + 33% Portuguese + 33% Sardinian @ 5,998
10 33% Orcadian + 33% Sardinian + 33% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6,002

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% French + 25% Gokhem2 + 25% Portuguese + 25% Spanish_Murcia @ 5,459
2 25% French + 25% Gokhem2 + 25% Portuguese + 25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5,498
3 25% French + 25% Gokhem2 + 25% Spanish_Extremadura + 25% Spanish_Murcia @ 5,514
4 25% Orcadian + 25% Portuguese + 25% Sardinian + 25% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5,518
5 25% Orcadian + 25% Sardinian + 25% Spanish_Cantabria + 25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5,522
6 25% Orcadian + 25% Portuguese + 25% Sardinian + 25% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5,540
7 25% French + 25% Gokhem2 + 25% Spanish_Extremadura + 25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5,541
8 25% French + 25% Gokhem2 + 25% Portuguese + 25% Portuguese @ 5,566
9 25% French + 25% Gokhem2 + 25% Spanish_Murcia + 25% Spanish_Murcia @ 5,567
10 25% Orcadian + 25% Sardinian + 25% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5,570

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Using the K36 ancient, the results (mine) are as follows:

2Vu4YFt.png

Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.2 12/11/2019


Finished reading population data. 474 populations found.
36 components mode.


--------------------------------




Mixed Mode:
1 61,52% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 38,48% CL36_northItalian @ 7,904
2 50,20% CL36_northItalian + 49,80% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 @ 8,233
3 82,23% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 17,77% EMA_Greek_STR_300 @ 8,366
4 81,45% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 18,55% EMA_Balkanite_aed_125 @ 8,504
5 76,37% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 23,63% CL63_Alpine @ 8,634
6 67,77% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 32,23% CL57_northItalian @ 8,636
7 79,10% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 20,90% SZ37_Greek_Italian @ 8,675
8 74,02% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 25,98% CL121__northItalian @ 8,714
9 82,23% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 17,77% MA2197_Anatolia_IA @ 8,739
10 82,23% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 17,77% EN_Anatolia_Tepe002 @ 8,754


Least-squares method.


Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 @ 10,969
2 100% CL94_Iberian @ 14,259
3 100% CL36_northItalian @ 14,484
4 100% BA_Hungary_RISE373 @ 16,150
5 100% CL57_northItalian @ 16,607
6 100% SZ43_northItalian @ 16,743
7 100% CL23_northItalian @ 17,870
8 100% SZ28_northItalian @ 17,922
9 100% SZ36_northItalian @ 18,210
10 100% SZ45_Pannonian @ 18,227


Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% CL36_northItalian + 50% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 @ 8,222
2 50% CL57_northItalian + 50% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 @ 9,399
3 50% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 50% SZ43_northItalian @ 9,590
4 50% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 50% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 10,348
5 50% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 50% SZ28_northItalian @ 10,420
6 50% CL94_Iberian + 50% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 @ 10,462
7 50% CL63_Alpine + 50% EN_Ballinahatty_Ireland_ @ 10,472
8 50% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 50% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 10,551
9 50% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 50% SZ36_northItalian @ 10,572
10 50% CL63_Alpine + 50% MN_Germany_I0559 @ 10,659


Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% CL36_northItalian + 33% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 33% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 @ 7,970
2 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 33% MA2197_Anatolia_IA + 33% Visigoth_Iberian_I12034 @ 7,980
3 33% CL57_northItalian + 33% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 7,990
4 33% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 33% BA_Hungary_RISE374 + 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 8,095
5 33% CL63_Alpine + 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 33% MN_Germany_I0559 @ 8,121
6 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 33% MN_Germany_I0807 + 33% SZ23_Longobard @ 8,202
7 33% CL36_northItalian + 33% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 8,261
8 33% BA_Hungary_RISE247 + 33% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 8,264
9 33% BA_Hungary_RISE374 + 33% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 33% I7424_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD @ 8,544
10 33% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 33% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 33% SZ18_Pannonian @ 8,549


Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 25% BA_Hungary_RISE374 + 25% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 6,840
2 25% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 25% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 25% MA2197_Anatolia_IA @ 7,291
3 25% BA_Hungary_RISE247 + 25% CL63_Alpine + 25% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 7,305
4 25% CL63_Alpine + 25% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 25% MN_Germany_I0807 @ 7,319
5 25% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 25% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 25% BA_Hungary_RISE374 + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 7,321
6 25% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 25% CL63_Alpine + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 25% MN_Germany_I0559 @ 7,328
7 25% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 25% CL36_northItalian + 25% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 7,383
8 25% BA_Hungary_RISE247 + 25% BA_Hungary_RISE373 + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 25% SZ18_Pannonian @ 7,394
9 25% BA_Hungary_RISE374 + 25% EMA_northItalian_FN_2 + 25% I2462_Bronze_Age_England_Kent + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia @ 7,402
10 25% CL57_northItalian + 25% I3578_EMA_Andalusia + 25% N_Sweden_Gokhem5 + 25% Visigoth_Iberian_I12034 @ 7,423

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Your relatives from Ancient Times (you share identified DNA segments)

rSjQFJY.png
 
@Duarte

Have you tried running Tolan K71 calculator on Admixture Studio?
 
@Duarte
:unsure: WoW (y) You are Complete, You have a piece of all Mankind :cool-v:
 
@Duarte
:unsure: WoW (y) You are Complete, You have a piece of all Mankind :cool-v:

LOL Thank you Salento. It's cool to be be part of everyone. I am in everyone and everyone is in me.:cool-v:(y):)
 
IMG_3961.JPG

Initially I had this match and now it is not showing up anymore. I am wondering what happened here??


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 

6. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) ..... 10.09
- I3499 -

Similar samples
Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) (7.94)
Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (9.094)
Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) (9.098)
Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (9.27)
Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) (9.32)

I have also this sample of the Proto Thracian.

Modern Group

1. Spanish_Andalucia (10.17)
2. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (11.08)
3. Spanish_Valencia (11.80)
4. Spanish_Extremadura (12.01)
5. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (12.08)
6. Spanish_Cantabria (12.17)
7. North_Italian (12.21)
8. Spanish_Cataluna (12.36)

Thracian + Illyrian (6.588)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (8.304)
Gallo-Roman (9.094)
Illyrian (9.098)
Thracian (10.21)



Top
99
% match vs all users

It is one of my samples that I have as the first population Andalusia, since the great maroyía is with Cantabria.

Another of my samples close to this with Andalusia is:

9. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) ..... 11.31 - CL23 -

Illyrian (6.439)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (7.742)
Roman Hispania + Illyrian (8.007)
Gallo-Roman (10.29)
Roman Hispania (13.33)

Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) (6.439)
Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) (8.083)
Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) (9.27)
Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) (9.935)
Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (10.29)


1. Spanish_Andalucia (7.964)
2. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (8.499)
3. Spanish_Valencia (8.765)
4. Spanish_Aragon (10.04)
5. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (10.23)
6. Spanish_Murcia (10.42)
7. Spanish_Extremadura (10.58)
8. Spanish_Cataluna (11.13)


20. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 13.4 - scy300 -

Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) (7.94)

Carthago Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) (8.058)
Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (8.083)
Carthago Outlier San Ercolano (500 AD) (8.659)
Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (8.823)

1. Spanish_Andalucia (7.040)
2. Spanish_Valencia (9.227)
3. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (9.523)
4. Spanish_Aragon (10.47)
5. Spanish_Murcia (11.36)
6. North_Italian (11.65)
7. Spanish_Extremadura (11.85)
8. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (12.23)

132. Carthago Outlier San Ercolano (500 AD) ..... 21.0 - R121 -

Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) (8.659)
Carthago Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) (9.237)
Carthago Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) (10.99)
Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) (11.82)
Carthaginian Roman (275 BC) (12.1)

1. Spanish_Andalucia (13.17)
2. Spanish_Valencia (15.38)
3. North_Italian (16.08)
4. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (16.16)
5. Spanish_Aragon (16.67)
6. Spanish_Murcia (17.74)
7. Tuscan (17.86)
8. Spanish_Extremadura (18.23)


Top
95
% match vs all users

34. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 14.06 - R55 -

Illyrian (2.89)
Al-Andalus + Illyrian (5.415)
Thracian + Illyrian (5.798)
Thracian (9.757)
Al-Andalus (10.14)



Top
93
% match vs all users
1. Spanish_Cataluna (7.676)
2. Portuguese (8.073)
3. Spanish_Murcia (8.462)
4. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (8.754)
5. Spanish_Galicia (9.017)
6. Spanish_Extremadura (9.229)
7. North_Italian (10.54)
8. Spanish_Valencia (10.79)


prototracianvucevol.JPEG


Looking at the related ones that were with Vucevol, Carthage appeared ...?

 
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