MyTrueAncestry Mytrueancestry.com

[Duarte]

Broion BR003. New sample available on MTA

 

[torzio]

MTA wrongly presented the name ...............the Heneti, Eneti, Veneti did not arrive there until 1250

plus the place found is still called the Euganei Hills as of today

origin; the Colli Euganei (maximum altitude 603 m) and the Monti ... relief of the Monti Berici -Grottina dei Covoloni del Broion,

colli = Hills

Euganei is a indigenous tribe which had 34 towns as per roman historian Cato

Euganei a Pre-Indo-European people, ethnically related to the Ingauni, as suggested by the similarity of the names. According to Pliny the Elder the Stoni people from Trentino were of the same stock as the Euganei. Cato the Elder, in the lost book of Origines, counted among the major tribes of the Euganeans; the Triumplini of Val Trompia and the Camunni of Val Camonica.^[2]
According to Livy, they were defeated by the Adriatic Veneti and the Trojans. Their descendants settled west of the Athesis (Adige) river, around the lakes Sebinus, Edrus and Benacus, where they occupied 34 towns, which were admitted by Augustus to the rights of Latin municipalities.

Polada culture should be part of the Euganei group

The Rhaeti should also be 1st cousins to the Euganei or an ancient branch of them

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...&lr=&as_brr=1&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[torzio]

Euganei

The Euganei (or Euganeans) were not part of the West Indo-European migration into southern Central Europe from its Pontic steppe homeland between about 3500-2500 BC. Instead they may have borne a degree of relationship with the Etruscans of north-western Italy (although the Celtic Encyclopaedia lists them as Ligurians). Possibly they (and the Etruscans) were indigenous, but one school of thought from the twentieth century had the latter migrating from the eastern steppes immediately before their rise around 800 BC - unlikely, as they would have had to make their way through various Indo-European groups (see map for more information).

The Euganei initially had tribal centres around Verona and Padua (Patavium). They extended towards the Raeti and shared territory with them, mining and trading in iron ore. Cato counts thirty-four Euganei towns (and therefore groups, tribes, or sub-tribes), amongst which were the Triumpilini of Val Trompia, a people who were claimed as being sold along with their territory (in other words, they probably accepted payment for loyalty to Rome). The dominant tribe seems to have been the Stœni (while Strabo also mentions the Stoni or Stœni among the minor Alpine tribes. Mannert thinks they dwelt near the sources of the River Chiese, around the site of the modern village of Storo). The Camuni or Camunni (around Val Camonica at the south-western end of Raeti territories are ascribed as being Euganei by Pliny, but not by others who generally place them amongst the Ligurians).
From the third millennium BC, as that West Indo-European migration increased, the Euganei found themselves surrounded. It was the Veneti on the Adriatic coast who came to dominate them (an arrival story for the Veneti incorporates the Trojan War - see below). By the time the Romans were available to document these northern Italian and Alpine tribes the Euganei were a client tribe of the Veneti and had lost their former capital of Verona to the Cenomani.
(Information by Edward Dawson and Peter Kessler, with additional information by Maurizio Puntin, from The History of Rome, Volume 1, Titus Livius (translated by Rev Canon Roberts)

 

[Duarte]

MTA wrongly presented the name ...............the Heneti, Eneti, Veneti did not arrive there until 1250

plus the place found is still called the Euganei Hills as of today

origin; the Colli Euganei (maximum altitude 603 m) and the Monti ... relief of the Monti Berici -Grottina dei Covoloni del Broion,

colli = Hills

Euganei is a indigenous tribe which had 34 towns as per roman historian Cato

Euganei a Pre-Indo-European people, ethnically related to the Ingauni, as suggested by the similarity of the names. According to Pliny the Elder the Stoni people from Trentino were of the same stock as the Euganei. Cato the Elder, in the lost book of Origines, counted among the major tribes of the Euganeans; the Triumplini of Val Trompia and the Camunni of Val Camonica.^[2]
According to Livy, they were defeated by the Adriatic Veneti and the Trojans. Their descendants settled west of the Athesis (Adige) river, around the lakes Sebinus, Edrus and Benacus, where they occupied 34 towns, which were admitted by Augustus to the rights of Latin municipalities.

Polada culture should be part of the Euganei group

The Rhaeti should also be 1st cousins to the Euganei or an ancient branch of them

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...&lr=&as_brr=1&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks by the explanations Torzio

 

[Pax Augusta]

MTA is a joke as usual, the ethnic label (Heneti Italic tribe) is completely invented.

The huge problem with amateur tools like MTA is that they contribute to spreading misinformation.

 

[True Caesar]

I recently discovered MTA and sort of thought it was too good to be true because I’d never seen a service that matched you to ancient samples with such...flash. But then I discovered its reputation here and I’m glad I didn’t pay for anything and used the Dodecad K12 Analyzer instead. I’m not a professional so I’m not able to tell on my own whether something is reliable or not. Grateful to communities like this. That said, could you explain to me exactly why MTA is inaccurate so that I can better understand?

 

[torzio]

Thanks by the explanations Torzio

just to finalise ..................you can go to this national park today and enjoy the hot springs which the ancient Euganei used

[h=4]EUGA´NEI[/h] Eth. EUGA´NEI a people of Northern Italy, who play but an unimportant part in historical times, but appear at an earlier period to have been more powerful and widely spread. Livy expressly tells us (1.1) that they occupied the whole tract from the Alps to the head of the Adriatic, from which they were expelled by the Veneti. And it is quite in accordance with this statement that Pliny describes Verona as inhabited partly by Rhaetians, partly by Euganeans, and that Cato enumerated 34 towns belonging to them. (Plin. Nat. 3.19. s. 23, 20. s. 24.) They appear to have been driven by the Veneti into the valleys of the Alps on the Italian side of the chain, where they continued to subsist in the time of Pliny as a separate people, and had received the Latin franchise. But they must also have occupied the detached group of volcanic hills between Patavium and Verona, which are still known as the Euganean Hills (Colli Euganei), a name evidently transmitted by uninterrupted tradition, though not found in any ancient geographer. Lucan indeed speaks of the “Euganeus collis,” which he associates with the baths of Aponus, and it is probable that the “Euganei lacus” of Martial refer to the same waters. (Lucan 7.192; Martial, 4.25. 4.) The latter author in another passage gives the name of Euganean to the town of Ateste at the foot of the same hills, and Sidonius Apollinaris applies the epithet of “Euganeae chartae” to the writings of Livy. (Id. 10.93; Sidon. Apoll. Paneg. Anthem. 189.) Hence it is evident that the tradition of their having previously occupied these regions survived long after their expulsion by the Veneti. According to Cato, the mountain tribes of the Triumpilini and Camuni, considerably further west (in the Val Camonica and Val Trompia) were also of Euganean race (ap. Plin. Nat. 3.20. s. 24).
We have no indication of the national affinities of the Euganeans. Ancient writers appear to have regarded them as a distinct race from the Veneti and from the Rhaetians, as well as from the Gauls who subsequently invaded this part of Italy; but from what stock they proceeded we have no account at all. The notion of their Greek descent (Plin. l.c.) was evidently a mere etymological fancy, based upon the supposed derivation of their name from ἐυγενε̂ις, “the well-born.”
The chief tribe of the Euganei was called, according to Pliny, Stoeni or Stoni, a name which is also found in Strabo among the minor Alpine tribes (Στόνοι, Strab. iv. p.204), but we have no clue to their position, [E.H.B] [p. 1.874]


you can bathe in the hot springs...drink some Soave white wines , hike around

https://www.writtenpalette.com/colli-euganei-discovering-the-wines-of-the-venetian-hills/

Clearly the Ancient Euganei tribes where using these hot springs

 

[Duarte]

MTA is a joke as usual, the ethnic label (Heneti Italic tribe) is completely invented.

The huge problem with amateur tools like MTA is that they contribute to spreading misinformation.

I agree Pax.
The sample was badly labeled by the MTA. There is always the interest of the MTA in marketing, ever linking the samples to a prominent civilization or culture of the past and, with this, the technical labeling that appears in the academic articles is impaired, summing up to the quote of the sample number.

 

[Duarte]

just to finalise ..................you can go to this national park today and enjoy the hot springs which the ancient Euganei used

EUGA´NEI

Eth. EUGA´NEI a people of Northern Italy, who play but an unimportant part in historical times, but appear at an earlier period to have been more powerful and widely spread. Livy expressly tells us (1.1) that they occupied the whole tract from the Alps to the head of the Adriatic, from which they were expelled by the Veneti. And it is quite in accordance with this statement that Pliny describes Verona as inhabited partly by Rhaetians, partly by Euganeans, and that Cato enumerated 34 towns belonging to them. (Plin. Nat. 3.19. s. 23, 20. s. 24.) They appear to have been driven by the Veneti into the valleys of the Alps on the Italian side of the chain, where they continued to subsist in the time of Pliny as a separate people, and had received the Latin franchise. But they must also have occupied the detached group of volcanic hills between Patavium and Verona, which are still known as the Euganean Hills (Colli Euganei), a name evidently transmitted by uninterrupted tradition, though not found in any ancient geographer. Lucan indeed speaks of the “Euganeus collis,” which he associates with the baths of Aponus, and it is probable that the “Euganei lacus” of Martial refer to the same waters. (Lucan 7.192; Martial, 4.25. 4.) The latter author in another passage gives the name of Euganean to the town of Ateste at the foot of the same hills, and Sidonius Apollinaris applies the epithet of “Euganeae chartae” to the writings of Livy. (Id. 10.93; Sidon. Apoll. Paneg. Anthem. 189.) Hence it is evident that the tradition of their having previously occupied these regions survived long after their expulsion by the Veneti. According to Cato, the mountain tribes of the Triumpilini and Camuni, considerably further west (in the Val Camonica and Val Trompia) were also of Euganean race (ap. Plin. Nat. 3.20. s. 24).
We have no indication of the national affinities of the Euganeans. Ancient writers appear to have regarded them as a distinct race from the Veneti and from the Rhaetians, as well as from the Gauls who subsequently invaded this part of Italy; but from what stock they proceeded we have no account at all. The notion of their Greek descent (Plin. l.c.) was evidently a mere etymological fancy, based upon the supposed derivation of their name from ἐυγενε̂ις, “the well-born.”
The chief tribe of the Euganei was called, according to Pliny, Stoeni or Stoni, a name which is also found in Strabo among the minor Alpine tribes (Στόνοι, Strab. iv. p.204), but we have no clue to their position, [E.H.B] [p. 1.874]


you can bathe in the hot springs...drink some Soave white wines , hike around

https://www.writtenpalette.com/colli-euganei-discovering-the-wines-of-the-venetian-hills/

Clearly the Ancient Euganei tribes where using these hot springs

Thanks for the travel tip Torzio. I love to travel and Italy is always a great destination. My wife and I love the country. Unfortunately, Brazilian tourists today, thanks to our most dignified President of the Republic and his ineptitude in controlling the pandemic in Brazil, are unwanted in most countries of the globe. I am already resigned to no longer doing foreign tourism. I will leave that now to my son and his future wife, and grandchildren, if they will gave me any.

 

[Salento]

… they’ll match you with the Ancient Civilizations genetically closest to you !

 

[Duarte]

… they’ll match you with the Ancient Civilizations genetically closest to you !

They (MTA) look for the culture or civilization that existed in the age of sample in the place where it was identified. Specifically In the case of Broicon BR003, a sample from the middle Bronze Age Italy, MTA labeled it as belong to an individual from the Heneti Italic Tribe, ie, a group within the Italian peninsula in the Iron Age. Hence my strangeness, borne out by Pax and Torzio. As I can see, this sample is not very close to modern Italians in the northeast, so it does not appear as old autosomal matches by Stuvannè or Torzio, for example. I don’t want to generalize saying that they always label baddly the old samples. I want to say that, sometimes, they do not label very well some ancient samples, as in the case of BR003 but, in general, I like the app and its constant news.

 

[torzio]

They (MTA) look for the culture or civilization that existed in the age of sample in the place where it was identified. Specifically In the case of Broicon BR003, a sample from the middle Bronze Age Italy, MTA labeled it as belong to an individual from the Heneti Italic Tribe, ie, a group within the Italian peninsula in the Iron Age. Hence my strangeness, borne out by Pax and Torzio. As I can see, this sample is not very close to modern Italians in the northeast, so it does not appear as old autosomal matches by Stuvannè or Torzio, for example. I don’t want to generalize saying that they always label baddly the old samples. I want to say that, sometimes, they do not label very well some ancient samples, as in the case of BR003 but, in general, I like the app and its constant news.

did they mean these veneti from gaul ....sometimes also known as Heneti

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneti_(Gaul)

 

[torzio]

Ancient Roman reference

3.Italians

The Italians consisted of the Rhaeti, the Lepontii and the Camuni.

Nomenclature - The Greek name for this people was Ἰταλοί, the Latin version is Itali. The standard English name is Italians. An alternative name for them is Oenotrians

Geographical notes - This name was used to indicate the people who lived south of the isthmus of Italy in the region that was situated above the Sicilian Straits

So Sicily was "not italian" in ancient times


......................................................................



4.Italiotes

This name is not only used for the Italiotes themselves, but also for the Cisalpine Galatae and the Heneti after they received the same rights as the Italiotes had received from the Romans. Sometimes they were also called Romans.

Nomenclature - The Greek name for this people is Ἰταλιώται. The Latin version is Italiotae, while the standard English version is Italiotes.

Geographical notes - The Italiotes lived in Italy.

History - They were sometimes attacked by certain tribes of the Vindelici and the Rhaeti, who were very savage in their attack. In fact they were so savage they murdered all the males when they conquered cities, even the male infants. Their savagery didn’t stop there, since they also are said to have killed the women who were said by their seers to be pregnant of male child

 

[torzio]

Veneti in Italy never fought against the Romans but where allies from the Hannibal wars onwards


Veneti in Gaul where always at war against the Romans

 

[Salento]

They (MTA) look for the culture or civilization that existed in the age of sample in the place where it was identified. Specifically In the case of Broicon BR003, a sample from the middle Bronze Age Italy, MTA labeled it as belong to an individual from the Heneti Italic Tribe, ie, a group within the Italian peninsula in the Iron Age. Hence my strangeness, borne out by Pax and Torzio. As I can see, this sample is not very close to modern Italians in the northeast, so it does not appear as old autosomal matches by Stuvannè or Torzio, for example. I don’t want to generalize saying that they always label baddly the old samples. I want to say that, sometimes, they do not label very well some ancient samples, as in the case of BR003 but, in general, I like the app and its constant news.

… some samples are harder to label than others, … I agree with you to not throw the baby out with the bath water

… GedMatch:
BRC003 # QZ8281511

 

[Duarte]

did they mean these veneti from gaul ....sometimes also known as Heneti

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneti_(Gaul)

 

[Duarte]

… some samples are harder to label than others, … I agree with you to not throw the baby out with the bath water

… GedMatch:
BRC003 # QZ8281511

 

[Illyricum]

here is my timeline View attachment 12708

 

[torzio]

replacement of my 23andme v3 sample with my ftdna bigy

my first ancient is

Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary 2350 BC


I7043


2nd is


Protovillanovia Martinsicuro 930 BC
R1

next

Illyrian / Dalmatian 1600 BC

I4331




.....................................................


Roman + Illyrian (5.887)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (6.367)
Gaul + Roman (6.871)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (7.133)
Illyrian (7.808)
Roman (9.782)









......................................................

timeline

2775 BC - Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol

Genetic Distance: 14.18
Shared DNA: 1.74 cM




2350 BC - Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary

Genetic Distance: 10.09
Shared DNA: 8.19 cM




2250 BC - Copper Age Augsburg Bavaria

Genetic Distance: 14.65
Shared DNA: 2.11 cM






and this added for the medical part which 23andme did not have

SNP: rs12979860 (CT) - Relevance:9.2
~20-40% of such hepatitis c patients respond to treatment

 

[Illyricum]

hi can you tell me what exactly does that mean thank youView attachment 12711View attachment 12712View attachment 12713View attachment 12714View attachment 12715

pity that the video I cannot post it