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Thread: 100% European but don't look white.

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    100% European but don't look white.



    Because I want to know if I'm most likely White with some German blood, I have my mom and three of her siblings tested at 23andme, mom also tested with Ancestry DNA to determine if we have an ancestry like most White Americans from the heartland. All their results come back 100% European on 23 mom was 98% European on Ancestry prior to science discoveries updating the results, now 100% European. I have 100% European paper trail genealogy as well (my ancestors are all from Europe).
    These are 23andme Ancestry Composition results


    Mom
    dw60.PNG

    Maternal aunt 1
    pb59.PNG

    Maternal aunt 2
    bl53.PNG

    Uncle
    tw57.PNG


    However, I don't think my family members look white, like someone of European ancestry. We aren't "dark" but our skin tends towards a yellow, somewhat green (olive?) complexion, rather than that pinkish white color, the norm for Northern Europeans. We do not have Greek, Italian or other southern European ancestry, just Northern and Central European. Do our DNA results really indicate pure European heritage, despite having an unusual yellow-green complexion? Do nonwhites sometimes get 100% European results? How can a family that looks to possess recent East Asian ancestry test 100% European?

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    Catherine Zeta Jones is from Wales and looks "darker." I know a lady born in far Northwest Germany and she has darker eyes and hair. Looks a lot like Sandra Bullock, who is also 1/2 German. There are plenty of people from Europe and northern Europe with olive skin and darker hair/eyes. It's hard to tell w/o a photo though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boeck View Post
    Because I want to know if I'm most likely White with some German blood, I have my mom and three of her siblings tested at 23andme, mom also tested with Ancestry DNA to determine if we have an ancestry like most White Americans from the heartland. All their results come back 100% European on 23 mom was 98% European on Ancestry prior to science discoveries updating the results, now 100% European. I have 100% European paper trail genealogy as well (my ancestors are all from Europe).
    These are 23andme Ancestry Composition results


    Mom
    dw60.PNG

    Maternal aunt 1
    pb59.PNG

    Maternal aunt 2
    bl53.PNG

    Uncle
    tw57.PNG


    However, I don't think my family members look white, like someone of European ancestry. We aren't "dark" but our skin tends towards a yellow, somewhat green (olive?) complexion, rather than that pinkish white color, the norm for Northern Europeans. We do not have Greek, Italian or other southern European ancestry, just Northern and Central European. Do our DNA results really indicate pure European heritage, despite having an unusual yellow-green complexion? Do nonwhites sometimes get 100% European results? How can a family that looks to possess recent East Asian ancestry test 100% European?
    You have been on this forum under another name with the same obsession. This is not the forum for this kind of nonsense. Continue and I'll delete the thread.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Can you tell us what you mean by "yellow-green" complexion? I can't fathom such a skin tone. Olive-skinned a bit like some Levantine Arabs or some Southern Europeans? I know people of overwhelmingly European ancestry who look "yellowish", but well within the range of skin tones of Europeans, who aren't all "rosy/pinkish" white not even in North Europe. If you really mean "olive-skinned", there are many people with a relatively darker tone in North Europe even if they don't have any recent non-North/Central European ancestry. There are famously many Britons and Irishmen like that, such as Colin Farrell, Catherina Zeta-Jones, Pierce Brosnan. In Germany Christa Ludwig and Jonas Kaufmann, two famous opera singers, do not look "pinkish white" at all, either (as for Kaufmann, German people told me confidently that they have searched about it and everything indicates that his family is German at least since centuries ago).

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Those topics dont make too much senses... For exemple the guy Ygorcs posted looks European and have obviously a Summer Tan or live in a all-yeard round Sun country. In cold winter he would depigmente a little bit.

    In Winter, i look like a dark Irish-Balkanic guy, in Summer, i'm your Afghan newcomer, dont even kidding.

    A lot of white people such as me, have an high capacity of pigmentation in summer, even tho i'm european for millenia. This is the same in Asiatic and European peoples even tho the tan is of different shade.

    As for Jonas Kauffman, he must have Jewish blood, people are often too concerned to being open-minded that they dont know how to make differences, but a phenotype as Jonas and a one like Colin Farrell are absolutely not related. When i see Jonas Kauffman face, either i'm thinking Jewish, wich Kauffman and Jonas both are Jewish names, or Balkans somwhere from Southern Serbia, Romania.

    As for Welsh, i'm maybe the only one who is watching Six Nations, but they usually are very dark featured, they even are considered from the Mediterranean type in carleton coon things. So i'm not sure why this nation in particular always is coming in topic like this, they are far from scots and irish.

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    For your information I will tell you that in Europe we have another concept of being white that is not strictly the nuclear balk or the pink skin and we were stupefied with the way of seeing things about it in the United States. Adopt European thinking and you will see that your family is white.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Those topics dont make too much senses... For exemple the guy Ygorcs posted looks European and have obviously a Summer Tan or live in a all-yeard round Sun country. In cold winter he would depigmente a little bit.

    In Winter, i look like a dark Irish-Balkanic guy, in Summer, i'm your Afghan newcomer, dont even kidding.

    A lot of white people such as me, have an high capacity of pigmentation in summer, even tho i'm european for millenia. This is the same in Asiatic and European peoples even tho the tan is of different shade.

    As for Jonas Kauffman, he must have Jewish blood, people are often too concerned to being open-minded that they dont know how to make differences, but a phenotype as Jonas and a one like Colin Farrell are absolutely not related. When i see Jonas Kauffman face, either i'm thinking Jewish, wich Kauffman and Jonas both are Jewish names, or Balkans somwhere from Southern Serbia, Romania.

    As for Welsh, i'm maybe the only one who is watching Six Nations, but they usually are very dark featured, they even are considered from the Mediterranean type in carleton coon things. So i'm not sure why this nation in particular always is coming in topic like this, they are far from scots and irish.
    You are really a fountain of misinformation on this topic.

    A Welsh male choir:


    There is variation among the Welsh. They are Celts, just like the Irish and the Scots, although like them, mixed with other groups. The Irish also have a significant number of dark haired and dark eyed people with slightly olive toned skin. In fact, the number of dark haired inhabitants of the British Isles is quite high, although most of them have light eyes.

    It amazes me how often Europeans show that they have no familiarity with Ashkenazi Jewish phenotypes. I guess it comes from Europeans having slaughtered almost all of them.

    I've lived among them for almost three decades and I've never seen that particular cast of features among them. I could think "maybe" Italian, but that's about it. Well, maybe an atypical Near Easterner. He's obviously a throw back of sorts. He does play up the dark, broody, look, and also performs a "lot" of Italian folk music. He has indeed said he feels an affinity for Italy. I'm sure it partly stems from his looks. He's a great singer, by the way imo.





    My other favorite example is Mats Hummels, a Bayern football player. When I saw him on the court I was convinced he was the child of some transplanted Italian family. When I looked him up I discovered he was run of the mill German. I even looked up his parents. From what I can see, through just random recombination, picking up one feature from one parent, and one from another, he wound up looking "extremely" Italian, and completely gorgeous imo. It's clear he is the son of his parents from the pictures, yet he looks much more Mediterranean than they do. Genetics always surprises. The same thing happened to my husband.



    In honor of the fact that Game of Thrones is back this Sunday, here is Kit Harington, who looks very British to me, for all the dark coloring. In some pictures it makes sense that a character in the show said of him: He's prettier than half my daughters. :)


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    Yes, none of the other guys you put out looked like Jonas Kauffman. You focus on Light/Dark Features, while i'm talking Phenotype as a whole, wich in a mediatic world and were people are easily influencable would put more questions on you than on me. Think about it. It's the kind of easy deal that could go on Quora.

    It makes me think about that South African girl wich had obviously African features, supposedly being came to birth by a couple of white people without African descent. How those kind of subject can flew over Rationality is why even Science gonna be biased until they take a big breath of cynism.

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    No, I'm talking about FEATURES as well as pigmentation. Mats Hummels looks COMPLETELY Italian. He could be in my mother's family. Jonas Kaufmann DOES NOT look like most Ashkenazi Jews. You have no idea what they look like.

    I added Kit Harrington for fun. He looks like what he is: a dark Brit.

    Mats Hummels. Apparently you don't know what Italians look like either.


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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Those topics dont make too much senses... For exemple the guy Ygorcs posted looks European and have obviously a Summer Tan or live in a all-yeard round Sun country. In cold winter he would depigmente a little bit.

    In Winter, i look like a dark Irish-Balkanic guy, in Summer, i'm your Afghan newcomer, dont even kidding.

    A lot of white people such as me, have an high capacity of pigmentation in summer, even tho i'm european for millenia. This is the same in Asiatic and European peoples even tho the tan is of different shade.

    As for Jonas Kauffman, he must have Jewish blood, people are often too concerned to being open-minded that they dont know how to make differences, but a phenotype as Jonas and a one like Colin Farrell are absolutely not related. When i see Jonas Kauffman face, either i'm thinking Jewish, wich Kauffman and Jonas both are Jewish names, or Balkans somwhere from Southern Serbia, Romania.

    As for Welsh, i'm maybe the only one who is watching Six Nations, but they usually are very dark featured, they even are considered from the Mediterranean type in carleton coon things. So i'm not sure why this nation in particular always is coming in topic like this, they are far from scots and irish.
    Even when Jonas Kaufmann looks pale and totally untanned his skin color is not pinkish white of that very pale kind of some other North Europeans. As for Jewish blood in Kaufmann, I also thought so, he does have some broadly "West Asian" looks (maybe just because of his tan, curly hair and big nose?), but I made these questions to German people, and they told me that no, he doesn't come from a Jewish family nor does he have any known recent Jewish ancestry. So no, Jonas Kaufmann seems to be of ethnic German background at least going back a few centuries.

    But I agree that many Europeans, at least those who are blessed with the genes for getting a good sun tan, are able to get much darker when under constant sun exposure. Some European expats who live here, very near to the Equator line, look quite reddish and dark-ish, almost light brown-skinned, but I bet they were very pale in Europe.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Even when Jonas Kaufmann looks pale and totally untanned his skin color is not pinkish white of that very pale kind of some other North Europeans. As for Jewish blood in Kaufmann, I also thought so, he does have some broadly "West Asian" looks (maybe just because of his tan, curly hair and big nose?), but I made these questions to German people, and they told me that no, he doesn't come from a Jewish family nor does he have any known recent Jewish ancestry. So no, Jonas Kaufmann seems to be of ethnic German background at least going back a few centuries.

    But I agree that many Europeans, at least those who are blessed with the genes for getting a good sun tan, are able to get much darker when under constant sun exposure. Some European expats who live here, very near to the Equator line, look quite reddish and dark-ish, almost light brown-skinned, but I bet they were very pale in Europe.
    I dont actually believe he has Jewish ancestry and he is a Catholic Bavarian. But his phenotype, mostly the eyes and the nose remind me of something Anatolian or Anatolian phenotype expanded ( Southeastern Europe ) as he looks exactly as a Serbian doctor i used to see.

    Problem about internet, people gets triggered with things they dont even understand. I googled a little bit here and there because people obviously already asked the question. And most of the responses were things like " germany is multicultural, there is different peoples and religions and bla bla bla ". Obviously they dont understand the question asked.

    As for the term ethnic German, who knows what ethnic means anymore. I guess we can only know individualy how much ethnic we are with the country we live in.

    As for tanning, not necessarly. Some Europeans, East Asians and Native Americans for exemple, have more Pheomelanin than the others. Typical exemple of an european who have more pheomelanin than an other european from the same country ; he has constent reddish cheeks. They dont tan that much and the reddish feature stay for ever. I have an Italian friend born in Switzerland and originating from Rome. He has a very weird kind of constent Brown Skin, even in winter it's browny-browny. But i bet he dont have that much foreign ancestry, so he just has this particularly high proportion of melanin and pigmentation. As for going back to Kaufmann, maybe he just looks like a 6000 years old LBK Bavarian, why not actually? It's still possible that the original phenotype of Old Europe still exists in some pockets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    No, I'm talking about FEATURES as well as pigmentation. Mats Hummels looks COMPLETELY Italian. He could be in my mother's family. Jonas Kaufmann DOES NOT look like most Ashkenazi Jews. You have no idea what they look like.

    I added Kit Harrington for fun. He looks like what he is: a dark Brit.

    Mats Hummels. Apparently you don't know what Italians look like either.

    Mats Hummels just look like your average dark featured european. He actually really looks like a Swiss guy. But he is not the same exemple as Jonas Kaufmann. And i'm not sure what looking like an Ashkenazi means because it's a pan-European group, so if they all look the same... well...

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    always the same with pigmentation:
    opposed thoughts very often wrong on both sides, approximations...
    - Pierce Brosnan don't have a too dark skin (for a "white"): he 'is UV full (and has a net of small freckles covering so darkening is basic hue) -
    - one can search to guess a skin colour during a complete cartoon with a lot of exposures, but no unique picture can be a reliable source; our perception of colour is often a relative one, made by comparisons, and under influence of light exposure, tanning or other modifications - eye colour too cannot be relied on in certain magazines: an eye (say: fair chesnut) over-exposed to light projectors can pass for blue on some pictures! I saw that more than a time in bad quality papers.
    - Welshmen are the darkest people in UK for hair colour (along Republican Irishmen) - a bit less than Irishmen, but on the same trend, they have a strong trend towards lighter skin and lighter eyes compared to European regions with roughly the same hair colours percentages - that said the dark hairs colours (very-dark-brown to jet black) don't exceed ~40% in rare remote regions, 34% as a whole, surely with some English input (towns born people are fairer, of course!) and I recall the red hairs mean is roughly 4,5% as a mean in Wales, but over 6% in the darkest remote regions (red hairs is curiously linked to darkest hairs regions in UK and Ireland!)
    - features: surprising sometimes: some people cannot mistake you, but some others can be given them several "ethnic origins" according to the angle you look at them! withtout speaking of the moustaches and beard cuts, or haircuts for women - what says Angela is true: if your parents and grand' parents have a relatively ordinary look (the bulk of Europeans), you can have a very more "typical" look according to stereotypes, even foreign or exotic to them, by recombination.
    I feel I'm going to ressemble the lesson giver! Hard!

    -no, southern European 'olive' skin is not a "natural" thing among pre-current North-Europeans, it was very seldom, except among the purest Saami.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeck View Post
    How can a family that looks to possess recent East Asian ancestry test 100% European?
    Most traits are polygenetic. Northern Europeans look different from other groups because their allele frequencies differ from other groups, not (or mostly not) because they have unique alleles. Without knowing more about the way you look, I'd say you simply ended up with a higher proportion of skin-darkening alleles than most other Northern Europeans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Can you tell us what you mean by "yellow-green" complexion? I can't fathom such a skin tone. Olive-skinned a bit like some Levantine Arabs or some Southern Europeans?
    I have some pictures as an example

    Attachment 10926

    Attachment 10927
    Attachment 10928

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