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Thread: A Transient Pulse of Genetic Admixture from the Crusaders

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.

    A Transient Pulse of Genetic Admixture from the Crusaders

    During the medieval period, hundreds of thousands of Europeans migrated to the Near East to take part in the Crusades, and many of them settled in the newly established Christian states along the Eastern Mediterranean coast. Here, we present a genetic snapshot of these events and their aftermath by sequencing the whole genomes of 13 individuals who lived in what is today known as Lebanon between the 3rd and 13th centuries CE. These include nine individuals from the “Crusaders’ pit” in Sidon, a mass burial in South Lebanon identified from the archaeology as the grave of Crusaders killed during a battle in the 13th century CE. We show that all of the Crusaders’ pit individuals were males; some were Western Europeans from diverse origins, some were locals (genetically indistinguishable from present-day Lebanese), and two individuals were a mixture of European and Near Eastern ancestries, providing direct evidence that the Crusaders admixed with the local population. However, these mixtures appear to have had limited genetic consequences since signals of admixture with Europeans are not significant in any Lebanese group today—in particular, Lebanese Christians are today genetically similar to local people who lived during the Roman period which preceded the Crusades by more than four centuries.



    https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S...Jz4rEqp-fhUOQM

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    When I look at those tables, I get confused. I would have put SI 38, SI 42 and SI 45 in "Near Eastern Group". SI 40 and SI 47 in "European Group". And SI 44, SI 39, SI 41 and SI 53 in an "Admixed Group". That would make more sense, wouldn't it?



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    The component they're using is WHG.

    Going on that basis, the only one that might belong in admixed is 44.

    There's too much WHG in 39 to be anything but European. Southern Europeans have that much Levant Neo sometimes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    During the medieval period, hundreds of thousands of Europeans migrated to the Near East to take part in the Crusades, and many of them settled in the newly established Christian states along the Eastern Mediterranean coast. Here, we present a genetic snapshot of these events and their aftermath by sequencing the whole genomes of 13 individuals who lived in what is today known as Lebanon between the 3rd and 13th centuries CE. These include nine individuals from the “Crusaders’ pit” in Sidon, a mass burial in South Lebanon identified from the archaeology as the grave of Crusaders killed during a battle in the 13th century CE. We show that all of the Crusaders’ pit individuals were males; some were Western Europeans from diverse origins, some were locals (genetically indistinguishable from present-day Lebanese), and two individuals were a mixture of European and Near Eastern ancestries, providing direct evidence that the Crusaders admixed with the local population. However, these mixtures appear to have had limited genetic consequences since signals of admixture with Europeans are not significant in any Lebanese group today—in particular, Lebanese Christians are today genetically similar to local people who lived during the Roman period which preceded the Crusades by more than four centuries.



    https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S...Jz4rEqp-fhUOQM
    I'm very interested to read it. Just looking at the Admixture analysis, however, the Modern Near Eastern populations, other than Bedouin B, do seem to have some WHG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The component they're using is WHG.
    Going on that basis, the only one that might belong in admixed is 44.
    There's too much WHG in 39 to be anything but European. Southern Europeans have that much Levant Neo sometimes.
    Clear about 39, thanks.

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    Why are the unmixed crusaders similar to the Spanish/Basques and Sardinians? I thought 13th century crusaders would be French/English/German. Aquitanians maybe?


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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Why are the unmixed crusaders similar to the Spanish/Basques and Sardinians? I thought 13th century crusaders would be French/English/German. Aquitanians maybe?

    If they're talking about Louis IX's crusader castle in Sidon, yes, it was built by the French king, but he was only there for four years. Plus, the troops they brought to the Holy Land could have been mercenaries. Even if not, the Kingdom of Navarre was allied to the French Crown and their genetics might match.

    "His son, King Theobald II (1253–70) of Navarre, married Isabella, daughter of King Louis IX of France, and accompanied his saintly father-in-law upon his crusade to Tunis. On the homeward journey, he died at Trapani in Sicily, and was succeeded by his brother, King Henry I, who had already assumed the reins of government during his absence, but ruled for only three years (1271–74). His daughter, Queen Joan I, ascended as a minor and the country was once again invaded from all sides. The queen and her mother, Blanche of Artois, sought refuge at the court of King Philip III of France. His son, the future King Philip IV of France, had become engaged to the young sovereign and married her in 1284. From 1276, the time of the negotiations for this marriage, Navarre effectively passed into French control, though not without the French suppression of native resistance in the 1276-1277 War of the Navarreria."



    I sincerely doubt there were many Sardinian knights. They were out of European affairs largely since the Roman Age.

    These men might also be descended from previous arrivals in the Holy Land who had remained.

    As for some Hungarian ancestry:
    "
    The crusade as preached in the thirteenth century was no longer the great enthusiastic movement of 1095, but rather a series of irregular and desultory enterprises. Andrew II, King ofHungary, and Casimir, Duke of Pomerania, set sail from Venice and Spalato, while an army of Scandinavians made a tour of Europe. The crusaders landed at Saint-Jean d'Acre in 1217, but confined themselves to incursions on Mussulman territory, whereupon Andrew of Hungary returned to Europe."
    They didn't stay very long, however. Of those, on balance, who remained, I think the majority of the troops in the Holy Land were brought by the French, although they came from all over. Just look at the First Crusade.

    "

    • Godfrey of Bouillon, Duke of Lower Lorraine at the head of the people of Lorraine, the Germans, and the French from the north, followed the valley of the Danube, crossed Hungary, and arrived at Constantinople, 23 December, 1096.
    • Hugh of Vermandois, brother of King Philip I of France, Robert Courte-Heuse, Duke of Normandy, and Count Stephen of Blois, led bands of French and Normans across the Alps and set sail from the ports of Apulia for Dyrrachium (Durazzo), whence they took the "Via Egnatia" to Constantinople and assembled there in May, 1097.
    • The French from the south, under the leadership of Raymond of Saint-Gilles, Count of Toulouse, and of Adhemar of Monteil, Bishop of Puy and papal legate, began to fight their way through the longitudinal valleys of the Eastern Alps and, after bloody conflicts with the Slavonians, reached Constantinople at the end of April, 1097.
    • Lastly, the Normans of Southern Italy, won over by the enthusiasm of the bands of crusaders that passed through their country, embarked for Epirus under the command of Bohemond and Tancred, one being the eldest son, the other the nephew, of Robert Guiscard. Crossing the Byzantine Empire, they succeeded in reaching Constantinople, 26 April, 1097."


    In the next crusade:
    "On 21 January, 1188, Philip Augustus, King of France, and Henry II, Plantagenet, became reconciled at Gisors and took the cross. On 27 March, at the Diet of Mainz, Frederick Barbarossa and a great number of German knights0, made a vow to defend theChristian cause in Palestine. In Italy, Pisa made peace with Genoa, Venice with the King of Hungary, and William of Sicily with the Byzantine Empire. Moreover, a Scandinavian fleet consisting of 12,000 warriors sailed around the shores of Europe, when passing Portugal, it helped to capture Alvor from the [/COLOR]Mohammedans. Enthusiasm for the crusade was again wrought up to a high pitch."

    There are also the Knights Templar to consider, although you might think they'd be buried with more ceremony.

    "
    [/COLOR]The Templar Order was divided into regions or "tongues" based on the language of the region. They developed over time but the following list gives a good idea of the Tongues:
    • Provence (ie Occitania, the region of the Languedoc speaking Occitan)
    • Auvergne (speaking a dialect of Occitan)
    • Poitou (including Aquitaine, speaking a dialect of Occitan)
    • France
    • Burgundy
    • Portugal
    • Castile
    • Aragon
    • Valencia
    • Sicily & Apulia
    • Rome
    • Tuscany
    • Lombardy
    • England
    • Germany
    • Hungary
    • Poland
    • Czech Lands
    • Jerusalem
    • Tripoli
    • Antioch
    • Cyprus
    • Lesser Armenia


    http://www.medievalwarfare.info/templars.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Why are the unmixed crusaders similar to the Spanish/Basques and Sardinians? I thought 13th century crusaders would be French/English/German. Aquitanians maybe?



    There were many Catalan and Aragonese Knights Templar, Alfonso I of Aragon left them a third of his kingdom, and there were even a few Sardinian ones and a Sardinian ruler, William I Salusio IV, fought in the third crusade presumably bringing with himself a host of local knights, and Gonnario II of Torres went to the Holy Land during the second crusade.
    Last edited by Pygmalion; 19-04-19 at 15:42.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Polman View Post
    When I look at those tables, I get confused. I would have put SI 38, SI 42 and SI 45 in "Near Eastern Group". SI 40 and SI 47 in "European Group". And SI 44, SI 39, SI 41 and SI 53 in an "Admixed Group". That would make more sense, wouldn't it?




    After reading more of the paper and looking at some of the graphs and admixture charts, I'm joining you in your confusion, but only about 41 and 53. I don't know why they're assuming that they're "admixed".


    "We found that a mixturebetween a medieval Lebanese and a Croatian or a medievalLebanese and a Hungarian could reproduce the PCAposition of SI-53, while a mixture between a Saudi and aNorwegian, or a Bedouin and a Northern Spanish, couldreproduce the position of SI-41.

    Problem is, this is an older sample, when most of the incoming Europeans were French, German, some Spanish, and Southern Italian/Sicilian, not Croatian or Hungarian.

    Plus, COULD reproduce the position of these two on a PCA doesn't mean DID produce the position on a PCA.

    The following just sounds like gobbledy-gook to me. How is it relevant?
    "However, ourresults (Table S6) show that the Europeans have in general adistinct admixture pattern from the one observed in SI-53;among the populations tested, Ashkenazi Jews’ NearEastern ancestry is mostly related to Near Eastern Jews, Sicilians’ European ancestry is related to Italians, and SouthernItalians have Northern Italians as top sources of their European ancestry."

    They don't even have Southern Italians/Sicilians on the admixture chart. Did they compare #53 to them somewhere in the Supplement? Did they compare 41 to some people from Crete, for example, or the Dodecanese, both of whom could have been part of the "Byzantines"?

    This is one of the earliest ones, dating to the time of the First Crusade or in between the first and second Crusade, when Sicilians and Southern Italians were also in the Holy Land. After all, 53 does plot near Sicilians. It seems a little early for a lot of admixture to have taken place.

    Why didn't they try Armenians in any of these combinations? After all, Baldwin of Boulogne married an Armenian princess, and many other of the Crusader kings as well. I think I read most of the Queens of Jerusalem were either wholly or partly Armenian.

    The Near Easterners were probably Eastern Christians. When the Crusaders first arrived they couldn't tell the difference between them and the Muslims and slaughtered them both, but as time went on, they were incorporated.



    Fwiw, this is the information for S1 53:
    ERS3189343 SI-53 Sidon medieval 1025–1154 266974394 19 4.4 387 male T2 R-CTS300

    S1 41
    ERS3189352 SI-41 Sidon medieval 1187–1266 169086445 11 3 198 male HV0a R-DF27

    For S1 41 maybe that changes everything and does show he's admixed?

    I have to go over the statistics tomorrow when I'm "fresh". :)

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    I'm a direct male descendant of the crusaders. Specifically Roger de Barnesville. They were Normans. Whom Tasso wrote songs of praise about my guy specially. He was killed in combat. My current working theory with the help of others is that my J2a were originally Alans hired by the Romans and later settled in Southern France. Exactly where my paper trail ends about 1,000 years ago.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many of the Crusaders had Sarmations and Alans included. Many would argue that the Chivalry/Knights/Arthur legends actually stemmed from these peoples.



    There's a man from Latakia Syria with my exact J2a1h2a1 etc... haplogroup. Makes you wonder if my crusader ancestor didn't have children when he was there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Aquitanians maybe?
    It is possible that they were Aquitanians or French Basques.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Has anyone found where they explain why modern Middle Easterners, including the Lebanese, have WHG where the Lebanese of the Romano period didn't?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The paper chalked up the extra Steppe to the Ottomans.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyan View Post
    The paper chalked up the extra Steppe to the Ottomans.
    I don't see any proof of that versus the Crusaders.

    I also stick to my guns that they're wrong about 41, 53 and other things.

    This is by "Matt", based on G25, so it might be a bit off, but...

    "I'd tentatively agree with Iosif Lazaridis who (I think in a tweet) suggested that these "admixed" samples may be both be within the range of previously existing European populations.
    Minimum Euclidean Distances for other samples in the G25 set for the Lebanese Crusader/Medieval "mixed" and "European": https://imgur.com/a/OGANZaD

    * SI-41 is very definitely matching with 400-1600 CE Southeast Iberians, and this is not just an artefact of the populations I selected for PCA.

    * SI-53 is a pretty close match to Southern Italians, as would be expected from their PCA. (It looks like other people with this genetic composition are just not well represented in the adna panel of largely Roman-Medieval samples I used for the PCA).

    * SI-39 and SI-47 are essentially NW European (English, German, Langobard, Viking, Scottish), seem slightly less northern than Norwegians.

    * SI-40 is essentially Iberian / Southern French."

    Does anyone know where this supposed tweet by Dr. Lazaridis appeared? I'd like to see if he had anything else to say. It's not on his twitter account, which I usually check when a new paper comes out.



    There's also this:

    "SI-41 (1187-1266 CE) "distant from any modern West Eurasian population" as per the authors is in fact a mix between European and NorthWest African and clusters with Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE/Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE/Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE.

    Here are his closest G25 populations (scaled) :

    SI-41 :
    Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE 2.40%
    Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE 2.50%
    Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE 2.75%
    Spanish_Canarias 3.72%


    [1] "distance%=2.581 / distance=0.02581" (scaled)

    Lebanon_Medieval_Mixed:SI-41

    Barcin_N 43.20
    Moroccan_North 29.70
    Yamnaya_Samara 21.70
    WHG 4.65
    Yoruba 0.75
    Levant_N 0.00
    Ganj_Dareh_N 0.00


    Global 25 Scaled Neighbour Joing tree (correlation) :



    As usual, at anthrogenica they're still substituting agendas for analysis.

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    Speaking of WHG, did we ever get an update on those old surveys that reported like 5-25% Y-DNA I all over the Middle East?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I've uploaded them to GEDmatch.

    GEDmatch Genesis kit numbers of crusaders belonging to European and Admixed groups:

    Crusader SI39 - kit number EM9001776
    Crusader SI40 - kit number QR8698402
    Crusader SI47 - kit number XA2645587
    Crusader SI41 - kit number ME3828251
    Crusader SI53 - kit number ZX8440629


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I've uploaded them to GEDmatch.

    GEDmatch Genesis kit numbers of crusaders belonging to European and Admixed groups:

    Crusader SI39 - kit number EM9001776
    Crusader SI40 - kit number QR8698402
    Crusader SI47 - kit number XA2645587
    Crusader SI41 - kit number ME3828251
    Crusader SI53 - kit number ZX8440629

    CRUSADER SI-41

    Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by leperrine View Post
    I'm a direct male descendant of the crusaders. Specifically Roger de Barnesville. They were Normans. Whom Tasso wrote songs of praise about my guy specially. He was killed in combat. My current working theory with the help of others is that my J2a were originally Alans hired by the Romans and later settled in Southern France. Exactly where my paper trail ends about 1,000 years ago.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many of the Crusaders had Sarmations and Alans included. Many would argue that the Chivalry/Knights/Arthur legends actually stemmed from these peoples.



    There's a man from Latakia Syria with my exact J2a1h2a1 etc... haplogroup. Makes you wonder if my crusader ancestor didn't have children when he was there.
    It spite me but I 'm very doubtful that the today distribution of Y-J2 could help to back an Alani trail. And the few ancient Alani we have (for I know) were rather Y-G2(a), even if it can amaze some people.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    CRUSADER SI-41

    Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
    CRUSADER SI-41

    MDLP K23b Oracle results:


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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    It is possible that they were Aquitanians or French Basques.
    The mixed ones? Maybe so but I guess that's because you see it in Gedmatch's oracles but Gedmatch's oracles are not completely accurate.

    The first (Crusader SI41) plots between Iberians and Northern Italians, the second (Crusader SI53) plots between Southern Italians and mainland Greeks.


    CRUSADER SI-41


    MDLP K23b Oracle results:

    MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

    Kit ME3828251

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 European_Early_Farmers 33.44
    2 Caucasian 23.3
    3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 13.77
    4 North_African 9.38
    5 Near_East 7.44
    6 South_Central_Asian 3.4
    7 East_African 2.77
    8 Subsaharian 1.68
    9 Ancestral_Altaic 1.51
    10 East_Siberian 1.06
    11 Austronesian 0.81
    12 Archaic_African 0.8
    13 Archaic_Human 0.64

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Portugese ( ) 9.82
    2 Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) 10.83
    3 French ( ) 11.63
    4 Italian_Bergamo ( ) 12.49
    5 Belgian ( ) 12.55
    6 English_Kent_GBR ( ) 12.76
    7 South_German ( ) 12.78
    8 English ( ) 12.99
    9 Italian_North ( ) 13.51
    10 Frisian ( ) 13.56
    11 German-Volga ( ) 13.63
    12 North_European ( ) 13.65
    13 English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) 13.69
    14 Welsh ( ) 14.04
    15 Spaniard ( ) 14.09
    16 Irish ( ) 14.13
    17 CEU ( ) 14.39
    18 British ( ) 14.79
    19 Dutch ( ) 15.06
    20 Spanish_Extremadura_IBS ( ) 15.21

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 80.6% Portugese ( ) + 19.4% Palestinian ( ) @ 2.79
    2 72.2% Portugese ( ) + 27.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) @ 2.92
    3 82% Portugese ( ) + 18% Samaritian ( ) @ 3.01
    4 64.4% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) + 35.6% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) @ 3.03
    5 81.4% Portugese ( ) + 18.6% Lebanese ( ) @ 3.06
    6 72.8% Portugese ( ) + 27.2% Libyan_Jew ( ) @ 3.08
    7 74.9% Portugese ( ) + 25.1% Turk_Jew ( ) @ 3.09
    8 75.7% Portugese ( ) + 24.3% Tunisian_Jew ( ) @ 3.1
    9 72.5% Spaniard ( ) + 27.5% Egyptian_Mansoura ( ) @ 3.14
    10 84% Portugese ( ) + 16% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 3.15
    11 82% Portugese ( ) + 18% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) @ 3.15
    12 72.5% Spaniard ( ) + 27.5% Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh ( ) @ 3.16
    13 61.2% Spanish_Galicia_IBS ( ) + 38.8% Libyan_Jew ( ) @ 3.27
    14 58.4% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) + 41.6% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 3.28
    15 68.9% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) + 31.1% Greek_Phokaia ( ) @ 3.3
    16 68.9% Spanish_Cataluna_IBS ( ) + 31.1% Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh ( ) @ 3.31
    17 85.5% Portugese ( ) + 14.5% Druze ( ) @ 3.32
    18 74.4% Portugese ( ) + 25.6% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 3.32
    19 84.1% Portugese ( ) + 15.9% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 3.33
    20 69% Spanish_Cataluna_IBS ( ) + 31% Egyptian_Mansoura ( ) @ 3.33

    MDLP K16 Modern Oracle results:

    MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

    Kit ME3828251

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Neolithic 32.35
    2 Caucasian 22.82
    3 Steppe 14.22
    4 NorthEastEuropean 10.65
    5 NorthAfrican 6.45
    6 NearEast 5.94
    7 EastAfrican 3.63
    8 Subsaharian 2.4
    9 Indian 1.39
    10 Siberian 0.13
    11 Arctic 0.02

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Corsican (Corsica) 7.04
    2 Portuguese (Portugal) 7.91
    3 Jew (Belmonte) 8.68
    4 Italian (NorthIitaly) 8.77
    5 Spanish (Baleares) 10
    6 Italian (Bergamo) 10
    7 Italian (Tuscany) 10.12
    8 Provencal (Provence) 10.19
    9 Swiss (Switzerland) 10.56
    10 Spanish (Extremadura) 10.82
    11 Italian (Friul) 11.06
    12 Spanish (Spain) 11.15
    13 Spanish (Canarias) 11.37
    14 Spanish (Murcia) 11.45
    15 Spanish (Andalucia) 11.62
    16 Spanish (Galicia) 11.84
    17 Kosovar (Kosovo) 12.87
    18 Spanish (Castilla_y_Leon) 13
    19 Italian (Abruzzo) 13
    20 Romanian (Gorj) 13.12

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 72.4% Spanish (Andalucia) + 27.6% Egyptian (Egypt) @ 2.43
    2 74.5% Spanish (Andalucia) + 25.5% BedouinA (Negev) @ 3.23
    3 71.8% Spanish (Andalucia) + 28.2% Arab_Israel (Shefa_Amr) @ 3.25
    4 72.6% Spanish (Andalucia) + 27.4% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 3.38
    5 75.9% Spanish (Baleares) + 24.1% Libyan (Libya) @ 3.4
    6 74% Spanish (Andalucia) + 26% Palestinian (Israel) @ 3.42
    7 72.5% Spanish (Murcia) + 27.5% Samaritan (Israel) @ 3.73
    8 61.1% Spanish (Andalucia) + 38.9% Jew (Algeria) @ 3.82
    9 69.6% Spanish (Castilla_y_Leon) + 30.4% Samaritan (Israel) @ 3.85
    10 79.5% Jew (Belmonte) + 20.5% Basque (France) @ 3.89
    11 72.3% Spanish (Andalucia) + 27.7% Samaritan (Israel) @ 3.96
    12 64.4% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) + 35.6% Jew (Tunisian) @ 4.01
    13 74.2% Spanish (Andalucia) + 25.8% Syrian (Syria) @ 4.01
    14 72.4% Spanish (Andalucia) + 27.6% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 4.07
    15 69.3% Spanish (Andalucia) + 30.7% Jew (Syria) @ 4.13
    16 50.1% French (SouthFrance) + 49.9% Jew (Libya) @ 4.15
    17 71.9% Spanish (Andalucia) + 28.1% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) @ 4.16
    18 72.4% Spanish (Murcia) + 27.6% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 4.22
    19 56.7% French (SouthFrance) + 43.3% Egyptian (Mansoura_Cairo) @ 4.25
    20 69.5% Spanish (Castilla_y_Leon) + 30.5% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 4.32

    Gedmatch.Com

    EUtest 4-Ancestors Oracle

    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    EUtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 WEST_MED 23.20
    2 ATLANTIC 22.17
    3 EAST_MED 18.54
    4 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 12.62
    5 MIDDLE_EASTERN 10.18
    6 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.35
    7 EAST_AFRICAN 3.29
    8 EAST_EURO 2.83
    9 WEST_AFRICAN 2.54


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 PT @ 10.933322
    2 North_Italian @ 11.847861
    3 ES @ 12.078883
    4 Tuscan @ 13.369282
    5 FR @ 19.563633
    6 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 20.995182
    7 AJ @ 22.030777
    8 RO @ 23.914778
    9 Serbian @ 24.956110
    10 GR @ 25.135830
    11 Moroccan @ 25.477522
    12 AT @ 25.967180
    13 French_Basque @ 26.841650
    14 HU @ 28.407112
    15 West_&_Central_German @ 28.963449
    16 Cornish @ 28.988199
    17 NL @ 29.696356
    18 Algerian @ 30.153276
    19 English @ 30.281355
    20 Orcadian @ 32.144806

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% ES +50% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 9.001353


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% ES +25% Moroccan +25% Tuscan @ 5.473464


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Algerian + ES + French_Basque + GR @ 4.874758
    2 French_Basque + GR + Moroccan + PT @ 4.910962
    3 Algerian + ES + French_Basque + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.943409
    4 Algerian + French_Basque + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 4.979517
    5 ES + French_Basque + GR + Moroccan @ 5.039167
    6 Algerian + French_Basque + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 5.048044
    7 Algerian + French_Basque + GR + PT @ 5.144810
    8 Algerian + French_Basque + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.154462
    9 French_Basque + Moroccan + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.154661
    10 French_Basque + Moroccan + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 5.289294
    11 ES + French_Basque + Moroccan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.322030
    12 Algerian + French_Basque + PT + Tuscan @ 5.362660
    13 French_Basque + Moroccan + North_Italian + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.442145
    14 Algerian + ES + French_Basque + Tuscan @ 5.467588
    15 ES + ES + Moroccan + Tuscan @ 5.473464
    16 Druze + French_Basque + French_Basque + Moroccan @ 5.534194
    17 Algerian + ES + ES + Tuscan @ 5.573821
    18 ES + ES + Moroccan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.619420
    19 French_Basque + PT + PT + Samaritan @ 5.660375
    20 French_Basque + Moroccan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian + Tuscan @ 5.665700

    Done.

    Elapsed time 0.0469 seconds.

    Kit Num: ME3828251
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com

    Dodecad K12b 4-Ancestors Oracle

    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic_Med 37.38
    2 Caucasus 18.87
    3 North_European 17.90
    4 Northwest_African 8.67
    5 Southwest_Asian 8.44
    6 Gedrosia 3.20
    7 Sub_Saharan 2.93
    8 East_African 2.24


    Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 12.299514
    2 North_Italian_HGDP @ 12.791687
    3 TSI30_Metspalu @ 13.413296
    4 Canarias_1000Genomes @ 13.765563
    5 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 14.104577
    6 Tuscan_HGDP @ 15.117364
    7 Portuguese_Dodecad @ 15.409299
    8 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 15.485755
    9 Galicia_1000Genomes @ 15.639492
    10 Baleares_1000Genomes @ 15.710630
    11 Extremadura_1000Genomes @ 15.761408
    12 Murcia_1000Genomes @ 16.315159
    13 Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes @ 18.206755
    14 Andalucia_1000Genomes @ 18.212278
    15 Spanish_Dodecad @ 20.188158
    16 Spaniards_Behar @ 20.362900
    17 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 21.128773
    18 Cataluna_1000Genomes @ 21.392902
    19 Castilla_La_Mancha_1000Genomes @ 21.554752
    20 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 21.791391

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Canarias_1000Genomes +50% O_Italian_Dodecad @ 6.019690


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Canarias_1000Genomes +25% Morocco_Jews_Behar +25% Romanians_Behar @ 4.220470


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Algerian_Dodecad + Hungarians_Behar + O_Italian_Dodecad + Sardinian_HGDP @ 1.762069
    2 Algerian_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + French_Basque_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad @ 2.012456
    3 Algerian_Dodecad + French_Basque_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar @ 2.043910
    4 Algerian_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + C_Italian_Dodecad + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes @ 2.074777
    5 Algerian_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + North_Italian_HGDP @ 2.082418
    6 Algerian_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad + Sardinian_HGDP @ 2.126711
    7 Algerian_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP @ 2.127675
    8 Algerian_Dodecad + Bulgarian_Dodecad + French_Basque_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad @ 2.186950
    9 Algerian_Dodecad + Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar + Sardinian_HGDP + Swedish_Dodecad @ 2.306883
    10 Algerian_Dodecad + Baleares_1000Genomes + North_Italian_HGDP + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 2.323859
    11 Algerian_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + C_Italian_Dodecad + French_Basque_HGDP @ 2.335352
    12 Algerian_Dodecad + Cataluna_1000Genomes + North_Italian_HGDP + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 2.340451
    13 Algerian_Dodecad + Galicia_1000Genomes + N_Italian_Dodecad + Tuscan_HGDP @ 2.351126
    14 Algerian_Dodecad + Bulgarian_Dodecad + C_Italian_Dodecad + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes @ 2.354181
    15 Algerian_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + O_Italian_Dodecad + Spaniards_Behar @ 2.361815
    16 Algerian_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + North_Italian_HGDP + North_Italian_HGDP @ 2.381261
    17 Algerian_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Spaniards_Behar @ 2.385453
    18 Algerian_Dodecad + Cataluna_1000Genomes + N_Italian_Dodecad + Tuscan_HGDP @ 2.391614
    19 Algerian_Dodecad + Cantabria_1000Genomes + N_Italian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 2.400987
    20 Algerian_Dodecad + Galicia_1000Genomes + North_Italian_HGDP + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 2.404445

    Done.

    Elapsed time 0.6607 seconds.




    CRUSADER SI-53

    MDLP K16 Modern 4-Ancestors Oracle

    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 39.67
    2 Neolithic 25.52
    3 Steppe 15.97
    4 NorthEastEuropean 8.64
    5 NearEast 4.58
    6 Indian 1.98
    7 NorthAfrican 1.49


    Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Athens @ 4.631577
    2 Greek_Macedonia @ 5.709280
    3 Italian_SouthItaly @ 5.931551
    4 Italian_Abruzzo @ 6.804487
    5 Greek_Greece @ 6.823165
    6 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 7.005102
    7 Sicilian_Sicily @ 7.078771
    8 Greek_Greece @ 7.298038
    9 Greek_Peloponnes @ 7.436593
    10 Greek_Thessaloniki @ 7.967601
    11 Albanian_Albania @ 8.130090
    12 Jew_Ashkenazim @ 8.270619
    13 Maltese_Malta @ 9.200719
    14 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 9.324085
    15 Jew_Bulgaria @ 10.017204
    16 Kosovar_Kosovo @ 10.598590
    17 Jew_Italian @ 11.091384
    18 Italian_Tuscany @ 11.283480
    19 Gagauz_Gagauzia @ 11.334759
    20 Jew_Sephardim @ 11.417408

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Armenian_Armenia +50% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.424870


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Armenian_Armenia +25% French_SouthFrance +25% Italian_Bergamo @ 1.881647


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
    1 Armenian_Armenia + Basque_Spain + Gagauz_Gagauzia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.326637
    2 Basque_France + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Georgian_Tbilisi + Kosovar_Kosovo @ 1.371610
    3 Basque_France + Jew_Georgia + Macedonian_Macedonia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.406635
    4 Basque_Spain + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Georgian_Tbilisi + Kosovar_Kosovo @ 1.416601
    5 Basque_Spain + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Thessaloniki @ 1.431449
    6 Basque_Spain + Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Jew_Georgia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.437274
    7 Basque_France + Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Jew_Georgia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.461933
    8 Albanian_Albania + Basque_Spain + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Georgian_Tbilisi @ 1.462805
    9 Armenian_Vardnis + Basque_France + Greek_Greece + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.464875
    10 Basque_Spain + Jew_Georgia + Macedonian_Macedonia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.476305
    11 Armenian_Vardnis + Basque_France + Gagauz_Gagauzia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.494691
    12 Basque_Spain + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Greece @ 1.497174
    13 Basque_France + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Thessaloniki @ 1.500947
    14 Albanian_Albania + Basque_France + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Georgian_Tbilisi @ 1.504532
    15 Cypriot_Cyprus + French_SouthFrance + Georgian_Tbilisi + Kosovar_Kosovo @ 1.508135
    16 Armenian_Armenia + French_SouthFrance + Provencal_Provence + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.512021
    17 Armenian_Armenia + Basque_Spain + Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.542547
    18 Armenian_Armenia + Italian_NorthIitaly + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.554368
    19 Armenian_Armenia + Basque_France + Gagauz_Gagauzia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.556014
    20 Armenian_Vardnis + Basque_Spain + Greek_Greece + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.565091

    Done.

    Elapsed time 26.8941 seconds.

    MDLP K23b Oracle results:

    MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

    Kit ZX8440629

    Admix Results (sorted):



    #
    Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 40.53
    2 European_Early_Farmers 21.57
    3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.87
    4 Near_East 7.9
    5 South_Central_Asian 6.98
    6 Ancestral_Altaic 3.19
    7 North_African 3.16
    8 Arctic 1.75
    9 South_Indian 0.94
    10 African_Pygmy 0.31
    11 East_African 0.28
    12 East_Siberian 0.24
    13 Archaic_African 0.17
    14 Austronesian 0.1

    Single Population Sharing:



    #
    Population (source) Distance
    1 Central_Greek ( ) 3.58
    2 Greek ( ) 4.52
    3 Greek_Athens ( ) 4.81
    4 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 5
    5 Romanian_Jew ( ) 5.13
    6 Cretan ( ) 5.44
    7 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 5.82
    8 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 5.92
    9 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 5.93
    10 Ashkenazi ( ) 6.05
    11 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 6.34
    12 Italian_South ( ) 6.38
    13 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 6.46
    14 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 6.5
    15 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) 7.1
    16 Gagauz ( ) 7.23
    17 Sicilian_Center ( ) 7.59
    18 Sicilian_East ( ) 7.76
    19 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 8.09
    20 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 8.34

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



    #
    Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 52.1% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 47.9% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 2.15
    2 90.8% Central_Greek ( ) + 9.2% Kurd ( ) @ 2.3
    3 89.7% Central_Greek ( ) + 10.3% Kurd_North ( ) @ 2.34
    4 90.8% Central_Greek ( ) + 9.2% Kurd_East ( ) @ 2.35
    5 90.7% Central_Greek ( ) + 9.3% Kurd_South ( ) @ 2.38
    6 82.1% Greek_Northwest ( ) + 17.9% Turk_Trabzon ( ) @ 2.41
    7 90.2% Central_Greek ( ) + 9.8% Azeri ( ) @ 2.42
    8 91.5% Central_Greek ( ) + 8.5% Baku_WGA ( ) @ 2.45
    9 95.7% Greek_Athens ( ) + 4.3% Kalash ( ) @ 2.46
    10 86.6% Central_Greek ( ) + 13.4% Turk_Adana ( ) @ 2.46
    11 54.7% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) + 45.3% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.47
    12 92.6% Greek_Athens ( ) + 7.4% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 2.47
    13 92.2% Greek_Athens ( ) + 7.8% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan ( ) @ 2.48
    14 88.3% Central_Greek ( ) + 11.7% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.48
    15 90.2% Central_Greek ( ) + 9.8% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 2.5
    16 90.1% Central_Greek ( ) + 9.9% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) @ 2.51
    17 91.8% Central_Greek ( ) + 8.2% Azeri_Dagestan ( ) @ 2.51
    18 90.8% Central_Greek ( ) + 9.2% Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) @ 2.52
    19 92.5% Central_Greek ( ) + 7.5% Lak ( ) @ 2.56
    20 88.1% Central_Greek ( ) + 11.9% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 2.57



  21. #21
    Elite member Achievements:
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    Join Date
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    Points: 56,443, Level: 73
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 607
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by binx View Post
    The mixed ones? Maybe so but I guess that's because you see it in Gedmatch's oracles
    Actually I wrote that before I uploaded them to GEDmatch, so I didn't know their results.

    I wrote that based on what other members suggested that they could be from Southern France.

    But you are right, the study says they were mixed of European + local Holy Land ancestry.

    PS:

    They are also already in the Global25 (Eurogenes).

  22. #22
    Regular Member Achievements:
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    Country: France



    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    They are also already in the Global25 (Eurogenes).

    Global25 is undersampled. I don't know how useful it can be with modern-day people.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
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    Points: 619, Level: 6
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by leperrine View Post
    I'm a direct male descendant of the crusaders. Specifically Roger de Barnesville. They were Normans. Whom Tasso wrote songs of praise about my guy specially. He was killed in combat. My current working theory with the help of others is that my J2a were originally Alans hired by the Romans and later settled in Southern France. Exactly where my paper trail ends about 1,000 years ago.
    I wouldn't be surprised if many of the Crusaders had Sarmations and Alans included. Many would argue that the Chivalry/Knights/Arthur legends actually stemmed from these peoples.
    There's a man from Latakia Syria with my exact J2a1h2a1 etc... haplogroup. Makes you wonder if my crusader ancestor didn't have children when he was there.
    Theoretically speaking, Roger de Barneville might have had Levant ancestry. Did your match and you do research in order to determine whether the Syrian branch was prior or arose during the Crusades, e.g. with BigY on yfull?

  24. #24
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

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    Country: United Kingdom



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    PCA with Crusader SI39, Crusader SI40, Crusader SI47, Crusader SI41, Crusader SI53 on Eurogenes K15



  25. #25
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
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    Points: 619, Level: 6
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    Overall activity: 10.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by brick View Post
    PCA with Crusader SI39, Crusader SI40, Crusader SI47, Crusader SI41, Crusader SI53 on Eurogenes K15
    Elucidating, we've five Europeans (2 Germans, Spaniard and 2 Mediterraneans). Let me guess, you are going to show us that the Near Easterners were Christian Armenians? No admixtures?

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