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Thread: Europeans in Zanzibar in 800 CE

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    Question Europeans in Zanzibar in 800 CE

    I0588 Tanzania Zanzibar, sample published by Pontus Skoglund and dated to 800 AD:



    Eurogenes K15 results of this sample:

    27834 SNPs used in this evaluation

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 26.89
    2 West_Med 26.26
    3 North_Sea 24.7
    4 East_Med 6.37
    5 Baltic 5.24
    6 West_Asian 3
    7 Red_Sea 2.41
    8 Sub-Saharan 2.4
    9 Eastern_Euro 1.48
    10 Siberian 1.25

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Spanish_Galicia 6.55
    2 Portuguese 7.09

    3 Spanish_Cantabria 7.34
    4 Spanish_Cataluna 7.72
    5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.99
    6 Spanish_Extremadura 8.15
    7 Spanish_Murcia 8.9
    8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 9.69
    9 Southwest_French 10.05
    10 Spanish_Aragon 10.18
    11 Spanish_Valencia 10.25
    12 Spanish_Andalucia 10.47
    13 French 11.81
    14 North_Italian 12.6
    15 South_Dutch 16.64
    16 French_Basque 17.96
    17 West_German 18.29
    18 Southwest_English 18.53
    19 Tuscan 18.61
    20 Southeast_English 20.41

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 55.1% Orcadian + 44.9% Sardinian @ 4.56
    2 60.8% Southwest_English + 39.2% Sardinian @ 5.11
    3 55.2% West_Scottish + 44.8% Sardinian @ 5.35
    4 55.9% Irish + 44.1% Sardinian @ 5.41
    5 58.3% Southeast_English + 41.7% Sardinian @ 5.48
    6 59.6% Spanish_Galicia + 40.4% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.8
    7 85.5% Spanish_Galicia + 14.5% French_Basque @ 5.89
    8 92% Spanish_Galicia + 8% Sardinian @ 6.11
    9 55% North_Dutch + 45% Sardinian @ 6.12
    10 73.1% French + 26.9% Sardinian @ 6.18
    11 79.4% Spanish_Galicia + 20.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.21
    12 79.3% Spanish_Galicia + 20.7% Southwest_French @ 6.22
    13 83.2% Spanish_Galicia + 16.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.38
    14 80.4% Spanish_Galicia + 19.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.47
    15 88.9% Spanish_Galicia + 11.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.47
    16 88.9% Spanish_Galicia + 11.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.48
    17 54.5% Portuguese + 45.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.49
    18 99.4% Spanish_Galicia + 0.6% Yoruban @ 6.51
    19 99.4% Spanish_Galicia + 0.6% Mandenka @ 6.52
    20 88% Spanish_Galicia + 12% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.52

    Similarity map:



    Europeans in Zanzibar - eastern coast of Africa - as early as 800 CE ???

    This sample is also in Global25.

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    Is it possible that they made a mistake in dating and this is a 16th century sample, not 800 AD?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    the most simple explanation, bad labeling. Taking into account the amount of errors in the excel files of these labs with large grants... by people that is not getting any dollar by doing such job. If you pay peanuts then you are working with monkeys.

    And even now Reich's lab is asking for free help and advice necessary by no hiring competitive people! it's inmoral after the millionary grants that they are getting.
    "What I've seen so far after my entire career chasing Indoeuropeans is that our solutions look tissue thin and our problems still look monumental" J.P.Mallory

    "The ultimate homeland of the group [PIE] that also spread Anatolian languages is less clear." D. Reich

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    It doesn't have a radiocarbon date listed, so yeah it could be a later burial that ended up in early layers AFAICT.

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    3 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Maybe a Portuguese there in the 15th century.
    https://www.zanzibarhistory.org/zanzibar_christians.htm


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    But the burial was dated to 800 CE not 15th century. A mistake?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Trade in Zanzibar was increasing rapidly in the 8th century. It became a common stop for Persian, Indian and Arab traders. Arabs also bought considerable numbers of European slaves who could have been brought along on trips. Although the dating is a bit too early for the heavy slave raids on western Europe. Could also be a convert, or on an outside chance a descendant of the Vandals. more likly of the Visigoths though. That timeline works quite well. Zanzibar is not really beyond Arab voyages of the time and anyone who could plausibly get onto an Arab ship could end up there.

    Someone of European descent sounds rare, but not impossible.

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    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    But the burial was dated to 800 CE not 15th century. A mistake?
    Possibly, since it's not radio carbon dated, but as Gnarl pointed out, a stray Portuguese could have wound up there in 800 AD.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Al Andalus had great travelers, such as Al Ghazal and Ibn Arabi ... perhaps it is some unknown traveler , a Hispano-Roman converted to Islam...

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    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by italouruguayan View Post
    Al Andalus had great travelers, such as Al Ghazal and Ibn Arabi ... perhaps it is some unknown traveler , a Hispano-Roman converted to Islam...
    I was thinking of a perhaps unknown Ibn Battuta, one from Iberia. He had even Marco Polo beat, I think. :)

    https://www.history.com/news/why-ara...er-of-all-time
    Last edited by Angela; 25-04-19 at 04:51.

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    Ygorcs also started a thread about it: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post582921

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