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Thread: Phylogenetic evidence for Sino-Tibetan origin in northern China in the Late Neolithic

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    Phylogenetic evidence for Sino-Tibetan origin in northern China in the Late Neolithic



    A small team of researchers affiliated with several institutions across China has conducted an in-depth study of the Sino-Tibetan language family and has concluded that it likely originated in present-day northern China. In their paper published in the journal Nature, the group describes their research efforts and the conclusions they drew from them. Randy LaPolla with Nanyang Technological University, in Singapore, has published a News and Views piece describing the work by the team in the same journal issue.


    Most scientists who study language and its history agree that most of the languages that are spoken today across the globe originated from much smaller subsets. The Romance, Germanic and Slavic languages, for example, are believed to have originated from a proto-language that is now labeled as the Indo-European family of languages—this family represents the most spoken language family in the world today. The second most spoken language family is called the Sino-Tibetan language family and it includes Mandarin, Cantonese, Tibetan and approximately 400 other languages. This second largest group represents approximately 20 percent of people alive today, or one and a half billion people. In this new effort, the researchers sought to settle a longstanding debate in the linguistics community—did the Sino-Tibetan language family originate in northern or southern China, or perhaps even somewhere else. And when did it come to exist?

    To find the answer, the researchers applied a wide variety of tools to the problem, from multiple fields. Their approach involved building an evolutionary tree similar to that used in the biology fields—from the top down. The branches at the top would represent languages spoken today and the base would represent the Sino-Tibetan proto-language. To build their tree, the researchers used genetic and linguistic data and borrowed tools from computational biology and anthropology. They also used historical information such as groups of people migrating. During the later stages of their work, the team applied probability testing to help build the branches on their tree.

    In the end, the researchers found that the Sino-Tibetan language family likely originated in northern parts of China and spread south and west as people moved to farm new lands. They also suggest the language family likely got its start prior to 6000 years ago—their tree showed that time frame as the point at which the first branches began to appear.

    https://phys.org/news/2019-04-sino-t...-northern.html

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01214-6


    Study:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1153-z

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    my guess is that the Sino-Tibetan originated in Yangshao culture
    they expanded in all directions and had a population explosion
    they grew millet and their settlements were surrounded by ditches
    they invented silk
    there is a legendary battle between the Yellow emperor and the Flame emperor
    it was won by the Yellow emperor, who spoke Sinitic
    the Flame emporar was defeated and he and his allies fled west
    they were the Qiang people and they spoke Sino-Tibetic
    the northern Qiang learned indirectly about cattle and copper from the Afanasievo people and some of them became herders in Tibet
    some of them were haplo O, others haplo D-Y15407
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/D-Y15407/

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    read this, and you'll understand :

    https://indo-european.eu/2018/06/rec...man-expansion/



    at first sight, the study - which is behind a paywall comes to the same conclusions

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Does proto-sino-tibetan have a word for, say, copper? That would be a huge giveaway as to dating

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe View Post
    Does proto-sino-tibetan have a word for, say, copper? That would be a huge giveaway as to dating
    I don't know, but I don't think so, the knew copper only after the split, allthough the Sinitic people probably learned about it from Tibeto-Burman people near eastern end of the Gansu corridor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    The second most spoken language family is called the Sino-Tibetan language
    family and it includes Mandarin, Cantonese, Tibetan and approximately 400 other languages.
    I think scientifically it is impossible of modern chinese mandarin, related with sino-tibetan, to originate in northern china.

    Modern chinese is a tonal language which appeared 4 century in china as i know

    Tonal languages require humidity:



    Consdering anthro research by chinese and japanese scholars on 2019, I think Sergei opinion would be persuasive. He thought that neolithic Yangshao people in the first culture of the yellow river were speaking altaic. Hg N was also found in the yangshao. Of course, there are counter arguments that the altai does not exist or Hg is not related to language. But his opinion is considerable under the migration, I think.




    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-tlr012315.php
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35426-z

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