new Damgaard study on ancient Scythians, Xiongnu, Huns, Turks and Mongols

bicicleur 2

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The ancient Scythians, Xiongnu, Huns, Turks and Mongols are now in YFull! Here you can see their study sample IDs and YFull IDs with links to their YFull haplogroups, their mtDNA haplogroups (with links to Ian Logan's pages), and their Gedmatch IDs. (I extracted the data and uploaded them.) You can also see the sizes in gigabytes of the original BAM files, to get an idea of the coverage.

Also, I've send some of these to Eurogenes to be plotted and so they can be analyzed in the various admixture tools.

The study hasn't been published yet, so we don't know when or where they're from. We just have a couple of clues.

http://open-genomes.org/analysis/Eu...IxCT9nZrfhc_wkRby7dy2mMy8EuEuyKdwJjPxknheyqi4
 
What's with all the diversity of haplogroups in Tian Shan.

Interesting too the Lchashen-Metsamor sample being I2-something, it's were the first transcaucasian spoked-wheel char is being found.
 
interesting to see that Z923991
the hungarian Scythian score some iberian and huge italian
in k36 as opposed to most steppe samples and the siberians one
could it be a native panonnian who adopted Scythian culture ?
he also score significant west med
and no east central euro component in k36 as opposed to other steppe dudes
[FONT=&quot]Z923991 Elapsed Time: 7.54 seconds[/FONT]


Population
Amerindian-
Arabian3.01
Armenian-
Basque4.16
Central_African-
Central_Euro-
East_African-
East_Asian-
East_Balkan10.40
East_Central_Asian-
East_Central_Euro-
East_Med-
Eastern_Euro-
Fennoscandian-
French4.10
Iberian13.76
Indo-Chinese-
Italian38.20
Malayan-
Near_Eastern-
North_African-
North_Atlantic7.02
North_Caucasian-
North_Sea6.61
Northeast_African-
Oceanian-
Omotic-
Pygmy-
Siberian-
South_Asian-
South_Central_Asian-
South_Chinese-
Volga-Ural-
West_African-
West_Caucasian-
West_Med12.75
 
interesting to see that Z923991
the hungarian Scythian score some iberian and huge italian
in k36 as opposed to most steppe samples and the siberians one
could it be a native panonnian who adopted Scythian culture ?
he also score significant west med
and no east central euro component in k36 as opposed to other steppe dudes
Z923991 Elapsed Time: 7.54 seconds


Population
Amerindian-
Arabian3.01
Armenian-
Basque4.16
Central_African-
Central_Euro-
East_African-
East_Asian-
East_Balkan10.40
East_Central_Asian-
East_Central_Euro-
East_Med-
Eastern_Euro-
Fennoscandian-
French4.10
Iberian13.76
Indo-Chinese-
Italian38.20
Malayan-
Near_Eastern-
North_African-
North_Atlantic7.02
North_Caucasian-
North_Sea6.61
Northeast_African-
Oceanian-
Omotic-
Pygmy-
Siberian-
South_Asian-
South_Central_Asian-
South_Chinese-
Volga-Ural-
West_African-
West_Caucasian-
West_Med12.75

If I consider that I (central-northern Italian) have 16.37% of Iberian and 22.75% of Italian (compared to its remarkable 38.20%!), I suspect that he is even a pure Roman or someone with very close Italic ancestors (parent , grandfather ... no further)
 
Would it be right to say that West Eurasian ancestry of proto Turks came from Scythians?
 
Would it be right to say that West Eurasian ancestry of proto Turks came from Scythians?

I think much of it came from Scythians, but the Proto-Turks probably already had quite a bit of West Eurasian ancestry (taken from earlier steppe herders, many of whom were ancestors of Scythians, and perhaps also from Uralic and other language communities in the forest zone). I think the appearance of very high East Eurasian ancestry in some of the easternmost Scythians near the Altai, like Zevakino-Chilikta, Aldy-Bel and Pazyryk Scythians, indicates the very beginning of the east-to-west expansion of Proto-Turkic-speaking people, and when they had their real boom centuries later, in the Late Antiquity, they were probably very mixed already (but still mostly East Eurasian initially). However, very interestingly IMO, most of the early medieval Turks even in the north (Kazakhstan and Russia) showed not just the main West Eurasian components of Scythians, but also a quite notable presence of pre-IE Central Asian ancestry (Gonur_BA, Sarazm_Eneolithic etc.), so in my opinion it's possible that many of them followed a "southern" route across the Tian Shan and expanded northward after having absorbed local Scythian/Saka groups in Turan. That's what I can tell from the analysis of the aDNA in the region in and around Kazakhstan.
 
So it looks like Turkic people probably originated as a result of a mix between Eastern European Steppe descendants (minority) and Siberian-like East Eurasians (majority and origin of the Turkic language) Interestingly, as far as i know Turkic languages show much more affinity to Uralic languages than Indo-European. Why is that? Wouldn't you expect steppe part of ancestry to speak Indo-European and affect the language to make it more Indo-European like rather than Uralic?
 
So it looks like Turkic people probably originated as a result of a mix between Eastern European Steppe descendants (minority) and Siberian-like East Eurasians (majority and origin of the Turkic language) Interestingly, as far as i know Turkic languages show much more affinity to Uralic languages than Indo-European. Why is that? Wouldn't you expect steppe part of ancestry to speak Indo-European and affect the language to make it more Indo-European like rather than Uralic?

I think, the only possibility without saying that R1a tribes were native Turkic speaker, and a possibility that was shown in writed history. Probably at some point, not sure when. A Turkish Confederacy lead by a Turkish Leader, defeated a Scythian-Iranian speaker Confederacy and killed the Scythian Leader. After this, the remnants of those Scythians would either flew West or enter into the rank of the Turkish Confederacy. After time, those guys lost their proper Scythian culture and language toward a Turkish one. The prevalence of R1a among Turkish people might just be that they were more numerous than native Turks, when the latter took power. When Temudjin federalized many tribes on his order, they probably were Mongol, but also Turkish, Tungustic and maybe Paleo-Siberian.
 
Maybe Turks are descendants of Seima-Turbino. Turkic mythology has a lot of metallurgy in it.
 
Maybe Turks are descendants of Seima-Turbino. Turkic mythology has a lot of metallurgy in it.

Seima-Turbino is too old to be even Proto-Turkic. The closest would have been something Proto-Turko-Mongol, but it probably was not. I think there is higher chances that those guys spoked something Uralic than Altaic.
 
Seima-Turbino is too old to be even Proto-Turkic. The closest would have been something Proto-Turko-Mongol, but it probably was not. I think there is higher chances that those guys spoked something Uralic than Altaic.

I was thinking about ancestry-wise not language.
 
Many regions in central asia
Were iranic speaking before turkic took over
That is a correct observation ....🤔
 
Earliest Turks seem to be mostly of Corded Ware ancestry.
https://ibb.co/0JVwzg5

The graphs seem to indicate that they were actually mostly East Eurasian mixed with late Western Steppe inhabitants (who were basically CWC + extra EEF + minor extra components from the Caucasus and Turan).
 
What's with all the diversity of haplogroups in Tian Shan.

Interesting too the Lchashen-Metsamor sample being I2-something, it's were the first transcaucasian spoked-wheel char is being found.

I think Lchashen-Metsamor comprised of Armenians and then after 1000 BCE Scythians, or less likely Cimmerians, moved in. If I'm not wrong, that spoked wheel wagon is from like 1300-1200 BCE.
 

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