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Thread: Positive for CTS8489 but Negative for CTS8862

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by BMW View Post
    "In the tree the Alias for CTS8862 is CTS8489 (as of now)
    If your positives and negatives are all real, eventually CTS8489 will become the Father of CTS8862, because I’m positive for both of them plus Z19945."
    - Salento, 30-04-19, 20:11, #6

    You were proved right, Salento.
    Thanks BMW, it’s a dynamic hierarchy. The more people that get tested, the more changes we will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    CTS8489 is now on Top of CTS8862, they’re not longer equal.

    • CTS8489
      • CTS8862
        • PAGES00113
        • Y17493
        • Z19945
          • CTS1848



    if this is the case.....then Yfull found Z19945 in sample ( sardinian ) id:ERS256892 ......and he sits between your CTS8489 and CTS8862 ( he does have cts8489 but not CTS8862 )

    this makes pages00113 and Y17493 further split from us.........Y17493 seems to be more USA via britain
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    @BMW


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The T project has moved me back to "Gamma-1.1-X T-CTS11984 or T-CTS8862 Unmatched" grouping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW View Post
    The T project has moved me back to "Gamma-1.1-X T-CTS11984 or T-CTS8862 Unmatched" grouping.
    Understandably, they're all puzzled by your results, You partially disrupted what they thought was a simple branch of the tree. Nice :)

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    ..........

  7. #82
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    2 members found this post helpful.

    FTDNA's T project has my Patrick Walsh grouped with
    Hoff
    , Anthonius b: ABT 1616 in Germany d: 1677 in Heddesdorf, Germany….(right bank of the Rhine).

    "The west Germanic tribe of the Sicambri descended from the Cimmerians. The Sicambri were located along the right bank of the Rhine and appear about 55 BC."






    https://www.houseofnames.com/Hait-family-crest/German
    "The surname Hait was first found in Bavaria, where the name Heidt was anciently associated with the tribal conflicts of the area. They declared allegiances to many nobles and princes of early history, lending their influence in struggles for power and status within the region. They branched into many houses, and their contributions were sought by many leaders in their search for power."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egem,_East_Flanders

    Through the centuries Egem has had multiple names. In the oldest documents it was found to be named Heddeghem (1571).

    Etymologically, Flemish toponyms ending with –gem refer to a Germanic compound of –haim, meaning ‘home’ or ‘residence’, and a derivative ending –inga. The first part of the name "Egem" is commonly assigned to the Germanic name of Haid, Hait or Heit. In its totality, the compound Haidingahaim meant ‘residence of the followers or tribal members of Frank (Franko) Haid’, degenerated into Heddeghem. The locality name belongs to the group of ingahemnames who are older than regular hemnames. Egem was founded in the early centuries of the Merovingian era (6th-7th century), and thus has an older origin than Bambrugge. Egem was probably a secluded homestead which was not too great, and was later absorbed by the rapidly faster developing Bambrugge.

    (notice name similarity of Anthonius Hoff's Heddesdorf, Germany and the Haid / Hait / Heit homestead of Heddeghem in East_Flanders)







    Wales:


    "Nest also had children by the sheriff Hait

    of Pembroke, a Fleming (William, who became lord of St. Clears)"



    http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~walsh/nesta.html
    *3rd LINE OF NESTA: 1 +Hait, Sheriff of Pembroke b: c.1070 2 William de Hay (FitzHait) b: c.1105 f: held St. Clare around the year 1130, campaigned with William and Maurice FitzGerald in Carmarthen in 1137. A footnote in the 13th century Welsh text "Brut y Tywysogyon" (The Chronicle of the Princes), compiled at the Welsh monastery of Strata Florida around 1300 alludes that William Hay 'Wallensis', son of Nesta and de Hay/Hait, was perhaps the father, or grandfather, of Philip and David (who went to Ireland).


    Any thoughts, anyone?
    Last edited by BMW; 26-10-19 at 16:06.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    If CTS8489 is above CTS8862, and you are Negative for CTS8862, but Anthonius is positive for it, I wouldn't theorize any close relation to him, until it is discovered when the mutation first occurred.

    (It could have past 10 years, or 100 years, or 500 years, ...)



  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    If CTS8489 is above CTS8862, and you are Negative for CTS8862, but Anthonius is positive for it, I wouldn't theorize any close relation to him, until it is discovered when the mutation first occurred.

    (It could have past 10 years, or 100 years, or 500 years, ...)


    Has the age of CTS8862 in this new configuration been determined?

    Showing the similarity between Hoff's Heddesdorf and Heddeghem / Haidingahaim was an afterthought. The other info I showed were items I have been accruing over time and was not prompted by any findings concerning Anthonius Hoff which could just be an interesting coincidence.

    My first thought was how could the name Hoff have any possible connection to Hedau, Hedaux, Hede, Hedde, Hedou, Hedin, Hedon, Hedman, Haid, Hait or Heit but I had to stop and remind myself that I am a Walsh....LOL.

    I have been unable to view my FTDNA Big Y Block Tree ever since the update. Problem might be on my end but either way it has thrown a monkey wrench into the works. I'm also still patiently waiting for the YFull Tree to finish their analysis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    If CTS8489 is above CTS8862, and you are Negative for CTS8862, but Anthonius is positive for it, I wouldn't theorize any close relation to him, until it is discovered when the mutation first occurred.

    (It could have past 10 years, or 100 years, or 500 years, ...)


    I come back to my post number 77

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    I come back to my post number 77
    I saw #77 earlier, but it’s a Paradox :)

    if we follow that reasoning, Z19945 is above CTS8862, and we cannot be positive for CTS8862 too, but we are.

    CTS8862 and CTS8489 are still equivalent on Ytree, and Z19945 is still at the same position as before,

    maybe they will update the entire branch, and also move the Sardinian below with us.


    @BMW I don’t see any dates from that end yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW View Post
    Has the age of CTS8862 in this new configuration been determined?

    Showing the similarity between Hoff's Heddesdorf and Heddeghem / Haidingahaim was an afterthought. The other info I showed were items I have been accruing over time and was not prompted by any findings concerning Anthonius Hoff which could just be an interesting coincidence.

    My first thought was how could the name Hoff have any possible connection to Hedau, Hedaux, Hede, Hedde, Hedou, Hedin, Hedon, Hedman, Haid, Hait or Heit but I had to stop and remind myself that I am a Walsh....LOL.

    I have been unable to view my FTDNA Big Y Block Tree ever since the update. Problem might be on my end but either way it has thrown a monkey wrench into the works. I'm also still patiently waiting for the YFull Tree to finish their analysis.
    antonius Hoff is one step from me..........I noted this in other T thread

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I saw #77 earlier, but it’s a Paradox :)

    if we follow that reasoning, Z19945 is above CTS8862, and we cannot be positive for CTS8862 too, but we are.

    CTS8862 and CTS8489 are still equivalent on Ytree, and Z19945 is still at the same position as before,

    maybe they will update the entire branch, and also move the Sardinian below with us.


    @BMW I don’t see any dates from that end yet.
    yfull has stopped its experiment and reverted back to what it was.....I will check on this Sardinian later

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    antonius Hoff is one step from me..........I noted this in other T thread
    A number of sites state A. Hoff's origin was Heddesdorf....located in the administrative district Neuwied.
    Großmaischeid is a municipality in the district of Neuwied.

    "First settlements in Großmaischeid date back to the late Bronze Age (1550 - 1200 BC). The Roman border fortification 'Limes' was erected around 80AD in the vicinity of Großmaischeid. The town was first mentioned in an official document issued by pope Eugene III which dates back to 20 January 1148. Its name is most probably derived from 'Metsched's (Maischeid) place', referring to a medieval local nobleman."



    Possible explanation of the origin of the name Metsched / Maischeid :

    http://haydefamily.com/meaning-of-the-name/
    A book called Teutonic Name-Systems applied to the Family Names of France, England and Germany [4] is less conclusive. It refers to Old German names ending in Heid or Hait (Modern German equivalent Heit, and English equivalent Hood) as being found in many ancient names, particularly among the West Franks in the 8th and 9th centuries, i.e. names such as Adalheid, meaning noble-hood. However when the name was used as a prefix then it becomes more difficult to interpret. The book summarised the linkages of the names as follows:
    Simple Forms
    Old German (8th century): Haito, Haido, Haida, Eid.
    English: Height, Hayday, Ade, Adie.
    Modern German: Haid, Heydt.
    French: Aide.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Rhine
    In the 4th century BCE, the area had come under the influence of Mediterranean civilizations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I saw #77 earlier, but it’s a Paradox :)

    if we follow that reasoning, Z19945 is above CTS8862, and we cannot be positive for CTS8862 too, but we are.

    CTS8862 and CTS8489 are still equivalent on Ytree, and Z19945 is still at the same position as before,

    maybe they will update the entire branch, and also move the Sardinian below with us.


    @BMW I don’t see any dates from that end yet.
    I do not understand why we cannot be positive for both, z19945 just moves inbetween

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    I do not understand why we cannot be positive for both, z19945 just moves inbetween
    To be positive for both, and if you move Z19945 on top of CTS8862, than CTS8862 would become our Final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    To be positive for both, and if you move Z19945 on top of CTS8862, than CTS8862 would become our Final.
    Not the case as I think this tree
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapl...-M184_tree.png

    is the correct tree......with z19945 splitting off

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Not the case as I think this tree
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapl...-M184_tree.png

    is the correct tree......with z19945 splitting off

    Where's CTS8862 in that tree? (before we thought that equated to CTS8489).

    You said that it should be below Z19945.

    It shows that Z19945 Split in 2 Branches, the CTS1848 (we’re Negative, so CTS8862 can’t be under it), and another, is it that one?

    if that’s the case, all CTS1848 cannot be positive for CTS8862.

    the Point is, that for any combination to work, must have Z19945 and CTS8862 because we are positive for both.

    for now, the FTDNA tree makes more sense than the Yfull tree, maybe they’ll move the Sardinia below to Z19945.

    Also the FTDNA tree settles @BMW’s issue.


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    FTDNA rearranged our branch a few days ago.

    Maybe Yfull and others will do same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    FTDNA rearranged our branch a few days ago.

    Maybe Yfull and others will do same.
    In the T project ?

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    Positive for CTS8489 but Negative for CTS8862

    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    In the T project ?
    no, FTDNA url main site, and I go to the Y DNA Haplotree,
    I get there by clicking the “Haplotree & SNPs” tab located under the Y-DNA Section in the Main Page.

    (I did a few Y tests with FTDNA, so I Have access to it)

    this below is a part of our updated branch by FTDNA:




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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    no, FTDNA url main site, and I go to the Y DNA Haplotree,
    I get there by clicking the “Haplotree & SNPs” tab located under the Y-DNA Section in the Main Page.

    (I did a few Y tests with FTDNA, so I Have access to it)

    this below is a part of our updated branch by FTDNA:



    I do not get what you get
    even though I have done the 500 and 700 tests , it's still shows I need to test for cts1848....even though both 500 and 700 in individual snp tests for me says negative for cts1848.....there might be a glitch in the tree for me somewhere

    even yfull and sequence says I am negative for cts1848

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Phylogenetic T-M184 tree would appear to need reworking, as well.
    A shame.....would be akin to redoing the Mona Lisa, imho.

    I still think my branch would need to go to Wallonia - Flanders, though.

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    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by BMW View Post
    The Phylogenetic T-M184 tree would appear to need reworking, as well.
    A shame.....would be akin to redoing the Mona Lisa, imho.

    I still think my branch would need to go to Wallonia - Flanders, though.
    speak to mr Bernot via email....he is Walloon, he runs 3 accounts

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