Positive for CTS8489 but Negative for CTS8862

[BMW]

FTDNA has determined my Y-DNA haplogroup to be T-CTS11984. They have also determined that I am positive for CTS8489 but negative for CTS8862.
Can anyone recommend any additional SNPs I should be tested for to help explain this...and help grow my haplotree, as well?

[zanipolo]

FTDNA has determined my Y-DNA haplogroup to be T-CTS11984. They have also determined that I am positive for CTS8489 but negative for CTS8862.
Can anyone recommend any additional SNPs I should be tested for to help explain this...and help grow my haplotree, as well?

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y-dna haplogroup T formerly known as K2

you might get an answer there by Esteban, he is good for T haplogroup

[zanipolo]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-M184_tree.png


bottom left is your group......might give you an idea on what to check

[BMW]

Thanks, zanipolo!

[BMW]

In the Phylogenetic T-M184 tree there is no mention of CTS8862....which I am Negative to.
I am also negative to Y17493 and "presumed" negative to Z19945 and CTS1848.
The furthest positive I go to in this tree is CTS8489.

CTS8862 and CTS8489 are not the same.

[Salento]

In the tree the Alias for CTS8862 is CTS8489 (as of now)

If your positives and negatives are all real, eventually CTS8489 will become the Father of CTS8862, because I’m positive for both of them plus Z19945.

• CTS11984
  
  • CTS8862
    
    • pages00113
    • y17493
    • Z19945
      
      • cts1848

[zanipolo]

Do you have pages00113 ?
Usually a danish or north german T person

[BMW]

zanipolo,
I show as "presumed negative" for pages00113.

Salento,
Thanks for sharing your insight into CTS8489 possibly becoming the Father of CTS8862.

I appreciate both of your responses.

[BMW]

FTDNA now has my hg as CTS8489.....(and still negative for CTS8862).

[torzio]

FTDNA now has my hg as CTS8489.....(and still negative for CTS8862).

CTS8489 and in the same branch CTS8862 ............there is no issue........I have a negative in one SNP in the main SNP M184 group of many SNP's ...........I am also negative for SNP pages000113 which is in same group


Upstream SNPs:
M184>L490>M70>Z19859>L131>L446>Y6055>CTS933>Z19939>CTS11984>CTS8862
ISOGG Tree (2019): T1a2b1a1
TMRCA (YFull Tree)
T-CTS8489: 3,100 ybp (2,200-4,100 ybp @ 95%) (T-CTS8489 is at the same level as T-CTS8862)

T-CTS1848: 2,500 ybp (1,450-3,900 ybp @95%)

TMRCA (JewishDNA.net)


T-CTS8862 AB-017: 198 BCE - 977 CE (@95%)





https://sites.google.com/site/levitedna/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ashkenazi-jews/haplogroup-t-y-dna-clusters-for-ashkenazi-jews

[Salento]

CTS8489 and in the same branch CTS8862 ............there is no issue........I have a negative in one SNP in the main SNP M184 group of many SNP's ...........I am also negative for SNP pages000113 which is in same group


Upstream SNPs:
M184>L490>M70>Z19859>L131>L446>Y6055>CTS933>Z19939>CTS11984>CTS8862
ISOGG Tree (2019): T1a2b1a1
TMRCA (YFull Tree)
T-CTS8489: 3,100 ybp (2,200-4,100 ybp @ 95%) (T-CTS8489 is at the same level as T-CTS8862)

T-CTS1848: 2,500 ybp (1,450-3,900 ybp @95%)

TMRCA (JewishDNA.net)


T-CTS8862 AB-017: 198 BCE - 977 CE (@95%)





https://sites.google.com/site/levitedna/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ashkenazi-jews/haplogroup-t-y-dna-clusters-for-ashkenazi-jews

I’m also negative for y T PAGES00113 and the other 2 Ashkenazi y T clusters: BY11520 and Y31472.

About that link:

Does that means that almost all the T CTS8862 labeled as Ashkenazi Jewish are actually positive for PAGES00113 ?

[torzio]

I’m also negative for y T PAGES00113 and the other 2 Ashkenazi y T clusters: BY11520 and Y31472.

About that link:

Does that means that almost all the T CTS8862 labeled as Ashkenazi Jewish are actually positive for PAGES00113 ?

yes, it says of the 50 samples of CTS8862 or under CTS8862 , only the 4 samples of Pages00113 are jewish

Based upon the sample set, it appears that T-PAGES00113 may be the only Ashkenazi subcluster within the T-CTS8862 cluster.

[BMW]

I'm still trying to understand how T-CTS8489 and T-CTS882 are at the same level. I am positive for one and negative for the other while there are people that are positive for both.

[torzio]

I'm still trying to understand how T-CTS8489 and T-CTS882 are at the same level. I am positive for one and negative for the other while there are people that are positive for both.

And this is why you branch splits off from there
Yfull has a T-CTS8489*........maybe you will fall under that branch once it is established

[BMW]

Thanks, torzio!

[BMW]

Hello to everyone.

I received my Big y-700 results from FTDNA on October 2.

I am now T1a2-Z19943.
I am also now "presumed positive" for CTS8862 and Z19945.

I now believe my Walsh family line stems from a Flemish (maybe Norman) knight named "Hait" in 11th / 12th century south Wales.
He was possibly from the Wallonia-Flanders region or the Amiens area of France...(Armorica, in general?)
Hait's ancestors may well have been from the Alan tribe who made their way westward from the Black Sea region (and maybe the Caspian Sea region before that).

I would greatly appreciate any feedback.

[Salento]

T-Z19945 equivalencies:

FT118348 CTS12204 Z19889 Z19879 Z19943 Z19883 Z19928 FT127660 FT127658

[BMW]

Hi Salento,

So we appear to be even closer then I first thought....and I am also negative for CTS1848.
Do you have theories as to where your family was before they arrived in Italy? I suspect when yours settled in Italy is when mine went west (northwest?)into Germany and then into what is now France.

Maybe:



"The Alans were the only branch of the Sarmatians to keep their culture in the face of a Gothic invasion (c. 200 CE), and those who remained built a great kingdom between the Don and Volga Rivers, according to Coon, The Races of Europe. Between 350 and 374 CE, the Huns destroyed the Alan kingdom, and the Alan people were split in half. One half fled to the west, where they participated in the Barbarian Invasions of Rome, established short-lived kingdoms in Spain and North Africa, and settled in many other places such as Orléans, France. The other half fled to the south and settled on the plains of the North Caucasus, where they established their medieval kingdom of Alania."

[Salento]

@BMW

Torzio is from the North, maybe he has more info.

As far as my relatives are concerned, they've always been there in the same Town, 2 and 1/2 miles from Lecce.

My town was founded in the 1200s AD by Leccesi soldiers tactical retreating after the troops of Otto IV of Saxony attacked Lecce.

I can go back up up to 5 - 6 generations, (cemetery private chapels).

[torzio]

Hello to everyone.

I received my Big y-700 results from FTDNA on October 2.

I am now T1a2-Z19943.
I am also now "presumed positive" for CTS8862 and Z19945.

I now believe my Walsh family line stems from a Flemish (maybe Norman) knight named "Hait" in 11th / 12th century south Wales.
He was possibly from the Wallonia-Flanders region or the Amiens area of France...(Armorica, in general?)
Hait's ancestors may well have been from the Alan tribe who made their way westward from the Black Sea region (and maybe the Caspian Sea region before that).

I would greatly appreciate any feedback.

I have 2 matches which are close to walloon area

François Bernot b. abt 1618, d. 1677 .............from Walloon , the owner of the site, told me his ancestors fled to spain after the spanish netherlands where lost...his family where cannon makers ...............before going to walloon, flanders area, he stated his family came from Gorizia north italy

The other is a person surname Reddick...from USA......originally from Hesse Germany with surname Radich

Bernot is positive for CTS1848 and Z19945 .............unsure for Reddick

I am negative for CTS1848

...................
oops

forgot this new one from Thuringia

Anthonius Hoff, b. 1616 and d. 1677

CTS8862+

7/22/2019( when submitted)

[torzio]

Hi Salento,

So we appear to be even closer then I first thought....and I am also negative for CTS1848.
Do you have theories as to where your family was before they arrived in Italy? I suspect when yours settled in Italy is when mine went west (northwest?)into Germany and then into what is now France.

Maybe:



"The Alans were the only branch of the Sarmatians to keep their culture in the face of a Gothic invasion (c. 200 CE), and those who remained built a great kingdom between the Don and Volga Rivers, according to Coon, The Races of Europe. Between 350 and 374 CE, the Huns destroyed the Alan kingdom, and the Alan people were split in half. One half fled to the west, where they participated in the Barbarian Invasions of Rome, established short-lived kingdoms in Spain and North Africa, and settled in many other places such as Orléans, France. The other half fled to the south and settled on the plains of the North Caucasus, where they established their medieval kingdom of Alania."

You sit in ftdna T project with a Hoff who is one step from me in my matches ..............you need to chat to Gareth since you have done your y700 and ask him to classify you

I believe your line arrived in europe before the romans emerged ............your line if it is Z19945 is dated as 1460BC ......and it is only found in Europe

[torzio]

@BMW

Torzio is from the North, maybe he has more info.

As far as my relatives are concerned, they've always been there in the same Town, 2 and 1/2 miles from Lecce.

My town was founded in the 1200s AD by Leccesi soldiers tactical retreating after the troops of Otto IV of Saxony attacked Lecce.

I can go back up up to 5 - 6 generations, (cemetery private chapels).

Do you have a

Michael Benedetto, Toretto, Italy

in your tree

I know he married a german woman, but his origins are from Marche region even though he is further south today

...............................................

I also have this from Marrovalle , Marche region
Carmine DiChiara

[Salento]

@Torzio
I don’t.

one of my matches is Redlich.
maybe is the same line as Radich.

[torzio]

@Torzio
I don’t.

one of my matches is Redlich.
maybe is the same line as Radich.

is it this person ?

Christopher Rudolph Redlich


or


Christian Atherholt
Born 1724 in Hanover , Germany

0 step from myself

.................

one from Belluno, 1680

Damiano Mozet ...............0 step from myself

[torzio]

My theory is that if you have Z19945 , ..............it was basically in the modern hungarian area in the late bronze-age