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Thread: Was Cimmerian (Old Persian) an Albanized Iranian language?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    ‘Deša’, ‘Djeth’ are not Albanian. If you want your tro-lling to seem more legit, at least use Albanian comparisons.
    I don't talk about modern Albanian which is actually a mixture of different languages, including Persian, look at this book: https://www.worldcat.org/title/persi...oclc/705975187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    I don't talk about modern Albanian which is actually a mixture of different languages, including Persian, look at this book: https://www.worldcat.org/title/persi...oclc/705975187

    They are not Albanian, old or new.

    Modern Albanian is not a mixture of different languages. It has been influenced by many languages over the centuries just like any other Indo-European language out there, and that's what that book is about. The Persian influence which obviously we absorbed in the last 500 years during Ottoman empire, moron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    They are not Albanian, old or new.

    Modern Albanian is not a mixture of different languages. It has been influenced by many languages over the centuries just like any other Indo-European language out there, and that's what that book is about. The Persian influence which obviously we absorbed in the last 500 years during Ottoman empire, moron.
    What do you want to say?! That is what linguists say, not me, for example about Albanian deša, look here: http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/res...54&root=config in Old Persian daushta also means "to love, to like", modern Persian dust "beloved, friend".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    What do you want to say?! That is what linguists say, not me, for example about Albanian deša, look here: http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/res...54&root=config in Old Persian daushta also means "to love, to like", modern Persian dust "beloved, friend".
    What linguists?!

    Albanian alphabet, doesn’t use ‘Š’. Perhaps it means something in Serbian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    What linguists?!

    Albanian alphabet, doesn’t use ‘Š’. Perhaps it means something in Serbian?
    Linguists use š instead of "sh" because in some language sh is pronounced as aspirated-s, so it may be confused. Voiceless postalveolar fricative (sh) certainly exists in Albanian phonology, however it didn't exist in some other languages in this region, like Greek and Latin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    What linguists?!

    Albanian alphabet, doesn’t use ‘Š’. Perhaps it means something in Serbian?
    Cyrus means "Dashuri=Love" in albanian is like old Persian word "daushta=to love" so how come it be from Ottoman period? lol

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    Never mind

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    Quote Originally Posted by nornosh View Post
    Cyrus means "Dashuri=Love" in albanian is like old Persian word "daushta=to love" so how come it be from Ottoman period? lol
    What prevents it? I don't follow your logic. Did modern Persian completely ditch the Old Persian word daushta = to love?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    You didn't get what I meant, I didn't mean there are the same sound changes in Greek and Armenian, as I have said several times in this forum, if we want to find the original land of a langauge, we should look at its phonology, proto-Greek voiceless aspirated stop consonants (pʰ, tʰ, kʰ) just exists in Armenian, it is enough reason to consider Armenia as the original land of proto-Greek.
    Why would you assume that? That only makes sense if Armenians necessarily stayed put, and only Greeks moved around, but there is no such evidence. Some common phonological aspects are not enough to assume common imediate origin, but in the case of Greek and Armenian the connections are far more than some shared sound changes in a few consonants, so the link probably does exist, however the only thing it proves is that Armenian and Greek descend from a common IE source in the early days of the language family, nothing else. It says nothing about where thta language was spoken.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Why would you assume that? That only makes sense if Armenians necessarily stayed put, and only Greeks moved around, but there is no such evidence. Some common phonological aspects are not enough to assume common imediate origin, but in the case of Greek and Armenian the connections are far more than some shared sound changes in a few consonants, so the link probably does exist, however the only thing it proves is that Armenian and Greek descend from a common IE source in the early days of the language family, nothing else. It says nothing about where thta language was spoken.
    You're right, there is no solid evidence (such as a stele written in Armenian or something along those lines) but there is ceramic evidence of the so-called Transcaucasian ceramic ware moving westward into modern Turkey from the South Caucasus region around the Bronze Age Collapse...reaching at least as far into the Anatolian interior as Elazig, whereas the western (Balkanic) ceramic ware from this period didn't go further east than Kirshehir. The eastern settlements suggest a 50% increase in population from the Caucasus region (i.e. there was a significant migration of settlers from the Caucasus into Anatolia).

    The issue with the western (Balkan) ceramic ware group being at least partially Armenian is that it doesn't take into account the apparent early linguistic contact/relationship between Armenian and Caucasian languages and Armenian and Hurro-Urartian languages.

    There are still linguists that support the Balkan model, but I think there is a growing body of linguists that are supporting a Caucasus origin of the Armenians. For example, people like Eric Hamp, who suggests that Armenians and Greeks broke off from each other in Georgia, and that the Greeks moved west from there while Armenians stayed in the same relative region.

    If a) the Alaca Hoyuk tombs were Indo-European but not Anatolian and b) if the Achaeans were the early Greeks, similar or the same as the Mycenaeans, and potentially the same as the Ahhiyawans, the Armenian model of Greek migration works well.

    Alternately, if the Armenians did come from the Balkans, perhaps they came at some point much earlier than 1200 BCE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    What prevents it? I don't follow your logic. Did modern Persian completely ditch the Old Persian word daushta = to love?
    It couldn't have been transmitted through Turkish because they use different word for "Love". So it must have been through ancient contacts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    What prevents it? I don't follow your logic. Did modern Persian completely ditch the Old Persian word daushta = to love?
    What do you mean?

    For example do you believe Ancient Greek khthés, Latin herī, Germanic *gest-, Sanskrit hiyas, Avestan zyō, Old Persian dya (Modern Persian di) and Albanian dje with the meaning of "yesterday" are cognates or not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    What do you mean?

    For example do you believe Ancient Greek khthés, Latin herī, Germanic *gest-, Sanskrit hiyas, Avestan zyō, Old Persian dya (Modern Persian di) and Albanian dje with the meaning of "yesterday" are cognates or not?
    Persian is a indo European language, cimmerian isn’t a albanized language but has similarities with other languages due to a common ancestor the indo Europeans.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    What do you mean?

    For example do you believe Ancient Greek khthés, Latin herī, Germanic *gest-, Sanskrit hiyas, Avestan zyō, Old Persian dya (Modern Persian di) and Albanian dje with the meaning of "yesterday" are cognates or not?
    In Albanian Kdheu means Return and yeah dje means yesterday.


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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Persians origins came from modern Tajikistan/uzbekistan and went to Persia in 1000BC ...............
    The Persians, and their closest relatives were the Medes, and both came from the Saka peoples in the central Asian steppe. The Medes and Persians first entered Iran from the Uzbekistan around 1000 BC. They settled the central Iranian plateau, mixing with the Scythian and Kassite migrants who preceded them, as well as with the Elamitic natives. The Persians moved to present-day Fars around 700 BC. The Medes settled in the northwest and today are called the Kurds.
    The Persians, separated from the other Iranians around 1000 BC. Their closest relatives were the Medes, and both came from the Saka peoples in the central Asian steppe.
    The Medes and Persians first entered Iran from the Uzbekistan around 1000 BC. They settled the central Iranian plateau, mixing with the Scythian and Kassite migrants who preceded them, as well as with the Elamitic natives. The Persians moved to present-day Fars around 700 BC. The Medes settled in the northwest and today are mostly labelled the Kurds.

    The non-Persian Iranians separated from the Indo-Aryans in Afghanistan around 2500 BC, when Iranian tribes in that area mixed with the Margianese.


    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Pe...istun_txt.html
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

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    i don't remember now the exact word in iranian. Some say that is borrowed from Persian through Turkish, but i think is not a borrowing but a native word of the Albanian language.

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