Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 60 of 60

Thread: Saxons, or the People of the Knife (Seax)?

  1. #51
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    922
    Points
    12,914
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,914, Level: 34
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 436
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Sasanach is exactly from Sassen not from Latin Saxones and Romanian Sas is even closer to Sassen.
    England is even called Sasana in Welsh and Irish Gaelic which is very close to Sassen.
    Because is very likely that Saxons were speaking their own language not Frisian.
    Angles should have spoken a different West German language than Saxons but a close one.
    Saxon is very obvious coming after the Norman conquest.
    After Norman conquest English language got a lot of Romance words, including Saxon.
    But Gaelic languages retained their more ancient Sasanach and Sasana.

  2. #52
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    spruithean's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-08-12
    Posts
    331
    Points
    8,985
    Level
    28
    Points: 8,985, Level: 28
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 365
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Country: Canada-Ontario



    The Scottish word "Sasannach" is from the Middle Irish word "Saxanach" which is combination of "Saxain" meaning "England" and the suffix "-ach", which means "related to" or "characterised by". The Middle Irish word "Saxain" is the masculine plural, in dative and nominative singular and plural forms it is "Saxa". Lets investigate this word, Saxa. Saxa is a Middle Irish word borrowed from the Latin word "Saxō", this Latin word is from the Old Saxon word "Sahsō" which derives from Proto-Germanic "sahsô", which is likely a derivative of yet again the Proto-Germanic word sahsą, which comes from the PIE word *sek-, which as we all know means "to cut".
    Now when we look at the singular nominative form of the Latin word Saxo in plural it is "Saxones", genitive singular is Saxonis, plural genitive is "Saxonum".


    The Welsh word Saesneg is from the Proto-Brythonic word *Seis (plural is *Saïson) again this word is borrowed from the Latin word Saxō and ultimately of the same Proto-Germanic origin and eventual PIE origin.
    Saxons were readily referenced well before the Norman Conquest, they were mentioned in various documents in Britain and before that by Romans documenting events and various tribal movements and activity.


    I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, are we discussing what the name "Saxon" refers to? Where it came from? I think it's pretty clear through the etymologies where the name comes from and I think it is pretty clear that the Saxons are a Germanic tribe from the North Sea area.

  3. #53
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    922
    Points
    12,914
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,914, Level: 34
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 436
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    I have problem to trust the official theory from main stream, about Sasana/England and Sasanach coming from Saxanach.
    And Saxanach coming from Latin Saxon.
    Is quite clear Welsh people had direct contact to Saxon migrants.
    I doubt they were communicating in Latin.
    As for the theory that Saxons were called like that from Seaks, people from Low Saxony were not speaking Frisian.
    Frisian language is telling to the Saxons Sachsen.
    People from Lower Saxony were speaking an ancient Old German.

    So they were not calling themselves actually Saxen :) .
    Just found, ancient Saxons were calling themselves Sahson or Sasson in ancient Old German.
    No link to Seax, the knife that very likely came with Danish Vikings.
    Because is identical with the long blade knives that were used by Vikings.

    The main knife found in Saxon sites from England is not the Seax, but a knife with a short blade, which was very likely used for things in the house, as cooking and so on :) .

    As for the theories of some English historian that the name of the Saxons came from the Seax, highly disagree with those.

  4. #54
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    spruithean's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-08-12
    Posts
    331
    Points
    8,985
    Level
    28
    Points: 8,985, Level: 28
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 365
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Country: Canada-Ontario



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    So Longobards and Baiuvarii tribes who predate the Vikings by centuries got their seaxs from time-traveling Vikings?

    By the way the unique shaped seax you reference is the broken-back seax. There are many varieties of seax.

    Now the seaxs found in England, were not just the short variety. Do you care to elaborate on the Seax of Beagnoth (Thames Scramasax) found in the Thames? If the Vikings are responsible for spreading the use of the seax how come the runes on this Thames scramasax are in Anglo-Saxon futhorc?

    Why are there seaxs of varying sizes and types found in Frankish graves, Alemanni graves, Baiuvarii graves and other Germanic graves that predate the Vikings?
    Last edited by spruithean; 23-05-19 at 03:28.

  5. #55
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    922
    Points
    12,914
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,914, Level: 34
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 436
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    Is quite clear that the name of the Lower Saxony people was Sahson and Sasson in their language.
    Is also quite clear that Vikings used seaxes, but they never started to call themselves Saxons, because they were using Seaxes.
    The name Saxon is taken from Old Frisian-like English language, which was Saksen, or so.
    Seax is having an extra e after S.
    Sahson or Sasson is more likely like the son of Sah or Sas and considering that Romanians were calling and are calling colonists from Lower Saxony Sasi at plural and Sas at singular, is a lot more likely that the Saxons were calling themselves in their own language Sas.

    Is also very likely that Angles and Jutes took Sasson/Sahson and pronounced it Sakson which later turned into Saksen.
    The term Seax is again very clearly coming from ProtoIndoEuropean Sek, which means to cut.

    The idea that most Saxons that migrated from Lower Saxony to England were people that were carrying knives with them and were attacking native "Romance and Insular Keltic speakers of England" is very weird and is not supported by any archaelogical discoveries or historical writings.
    I do not say that some Saxon warriors were not using seaxes, and the Vikings were also using Seaxes, and other Germanic people were also using Seaxes.
    Where are the evidences of wars between "Saxon invaders" and natives of South England or from where the claim that Saxons exterminated all natives from England?
    Because South of England still has the Cornish people, as an Insular Celtic group.
    And Welsh people are still there.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 25-05-19 at 00:15.

  6. #56
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    922
    Points
    12,914
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,914, Level: 34
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 436
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    This Seaxes theory and that Saxons took their name from Seaxes ,from my point of view, is not supported by too many arguments.
    Saxon warriors had as main weapon a sword, not a seax.
    Seax might have been an additional weapon, as it was at Vikings.
    Seax might have even been a larger knife, used for slaughtering pigs and cutting the slaughtered pigs, in pieces.
    It is quite well known that Saxons kept pigs, from the archaeological diggings.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 25-05-19 at 12:26.

  7. #57
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    922
    Points
    12,914
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,914, Level: 34
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 436
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    Here is a image of Normans attacking the AngloSaxons, at the Battle of Hastings:


    The Vikings were not using horses in battles, for a great extent, while Normans are depicted using horses.
    AngloSaxons are using a shield wall, which was very used by Norse Germanics, also.
    No AngloSaxon from this picture has a seax with him.
    They just have some long swords.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 25-05-19 at 22:05.

  8. #58
    Regular Member Achievements:
    31 days registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    08-09-19
    Posts
    10
    Points
    138
    Level
    1
    Points: 138, Level: 1
    Level completed: 88%, Points required for next Level: 12
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Russian Federation



    With the help of polysynthesis of the Circassian (Adyghe) language. The word sakes can be decomposed as follows: "se" - knife, cutting weapon, "kes" - cut. Another translation of “se” is a knife, cutting weapon, “a” hand, “kes” - long up to. Literally cutting weapons with a length of a hand.
    Last edited by Адам. Б. К.; 09-09-19 at 23:17. Reason: Редактирование и обновление

  9. #59
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    spruithean's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-08-12
    Posts
    331
    Points
    8,985
    Level
    28
    Points: 8,985, Level: 28
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 365
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Country: Canada-Ontario



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    This Seaxes theory and that Saxons took their name from Seaxes ,from my point of view, is not supported by too many arguments.
    Saxon warriors had as main weapon a sword, not a seax.
    Seax might have been an additional weapon, as it was at Vikings.
    Seax might have even been a larger knife, used for slaughtering pigs and cutting the slaughtered pigs, in pieces.
    It is quite well known that Saxons kept pigs, from the archaeological diggings.
    So why do we find seaxes in Anglo-Saxon graves within England? Why do we find seaxes among related Germanic people (Longobards - who had Saxon contact and brought Saxons to Italy with them), Franks (again, Saxon contingents in Brittany, etc), the list continues.
    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Here is a image of Normans attacking the AngloSaxons, at the Battle of Hastings:

    The Vikings were not using horses in battles, for a great extent, while Normans are depicted using horses.
    AngloSaxons are using a shield wall, which was very used by Norse Germanics, also.
    No AngloSaxon from this picture has a seax with him.
    They just have some long swords.
    Using the Bayeux Tapestry to illustrate your point of view is not very convincing as the Bayeux Tapestry and the era it depicts is quite a bit removed from the initial ethnogenesis of the Anglo-Saxon people in Britain.

    I encourage you to actually look at the etymology of Saxon, it would answer your questions.

  10. #60
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,404
    Points
    39,556
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,556, Level: 61
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 794
    Overall activity: 26.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Is quite clear that the name of the Lower Saxony people was Sahson and Sasson in their language.
    Is also quite clear that Vikings used seaxes, but they never started to call themselves Saxons, because they were using Seaxes.
    The name Saxon is taken from Old Frisian-like English language, which was Saksen, or so.
    Seax is having an extra e after S.
    Sahson or Sasson is more likely like the son of Sah or Sas and considering that Romanians were calling and are calling colonists from Lower Saxony Sasi at plural and Sas at singular, is a lot more likely that the Saxons were calling themselves in their own language Sas.

    Is also very likely that Angles and Jutes took Sasson/Sahson and pronounced it Sakson which later turned into Saksen.
    The term Seax is again very clearly coming from ProtoIndoEuropean Sek, which means to cut.

    The idea that most Saxons that migrated from Lower Saxony to England were people that were carrying knives with them and were attacking native "Romance and Insular Keltic speakers of England" is very weird and is not supported by any archaelogical discoveries or historical writings.
    I do not say that some Saxon warriors were not using seaxes, and the Vikings were also using Seaxes, and other Germanic people were also using Seaxes.
    Where are the evidences of wars between "Saxon invaders" and natives of South England or from where the claim that Saxons exterminated all natives from England?
    Because South of England still has the Cornish people, as an Insular Celtic group.
    And Welsh people are still there.
    the Sahs- part of the name had surely to be pronounced as a guttural aspiration of ancient Saks-,so something like /saXs/ in phonetic writing, and this explain the Saks >> Sax- of the latin spellings -
    No battle(s) between Insular Celts and Saxons (or Angles)??? Have you read some history books??? and the VI°/VII° Cy songs of Celtic Brittons of Northern today England vaunting their "kings" (like Uryen) proudness or mourning on their death???

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •