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Thread: Recommendations-Netflix, Amazon, MHZ

  1. #26
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    Watch the NETFLIX series MESSIAH:

    https://pt.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mess...elevis%C3%A3o)

    After, reflect about this short video.


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    I've been watching this show, I'm on the third episode. It is very interesting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    I've been watching this show, I'm on the third episode. It is very interesting!
    I've been watching it too. It's the first thing I've watched on netflix in a long time. I had been thinking of cancelling and rejoining only if something that looked interesting showed up.

    Instead I've been watching a lot of amazon prime. I stumbled on a lecture series called "The Rise of Rome". Unfortunately, it's 24 half hour episodes and it's leaving November 1st, but the few episodes I've picked and chosen are interesting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    I've been watching this show, I'm on the third episode. It is very interesting!
    Thanks for the advice Jovalis, wasn't aware of it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    I've been watching this show, I'm on the third episode. It is very interesting!
    I have seen the first two episodes. What is IMO is really good is the interaction between the Roman and Germanic world, no black and white but with a right eye for the complexities. And It's the same regisseur as in the Viking case, so the same kind of dark atmosphere. The only thing that sounds odd in my ears is that the Germans speak nowadays "high German" a kind of archaic Low German would be better IMO. The Romans in the serie do speak a kind of Latin don't they?
    Last edited by Northener; 30-10-20 at 23:52.

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    I really appreciate the grittiness of the show, it was a good production. I just finished it yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    I've been watching this show, I'm on the third episode. It is very interesting!
    I have binge watched them all (the rest) yesterday evening. Of course it's entertainment....but what is most interesting for me is 'Ari' living in 'two worlds'....and especially how he 'played' with that in the final chapters. That's masterly. And of course recognizable for many even nowadays.

    I'm curios what in the end for you
    It is very interesting!
    is most remarkable....

    Gives it in the end a good and real insight in the Germanic and Roman world of that time? Or are it stil nowadays projections on those days?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    I have binge watched them all (the rest) yesterday evening. Of course it's entertainment....but what is most interesting for me is 'Ari' living in 'two worlds'....and especially how he 'played' with that in the final chapters. That's masterly. And of course recognizable for many even nowadays.

    I'm curios what in the end for you is most remarkable....

    Gives it in the end a good and real insight in the Germanic and Roman world of that time? Or are it stil nowadays projections on those days?
    I think it could be a mix of both

    Spoiler alert:








    I found it interesting how he grieved for both his real father, and his adopted Roman father, Varus. Particularly, how he was truly convinced of what he should do, when he discovered that despite his merits, he could never achieve more than what was offered to him, because of his origins. That is when he completely knew he needed to free himself, and his people. I think that could also serve as a projection on the dynamics of modern societies. People need to be treated based on their merit, and deeds, in order to have a peaceful society. But it also showed that some of the people he was fighting for could be just as duplicitous as his enemies. For example, the uncle of his friend, that ambushed them while they slept, and Segestes. In real life Armenius was assassinated by other members of his tribe. I wonder if there will be a second season, they seem to leave it open it it. Perhaps it will go into these events, as well as the return of Ari's brother, Flavus.

  9. #34
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    I think there was more than a bit of projection going on, especially given it was German made and the number of Turks, among others, living there.

    Rome was not the modern world. Their world view was not ours. It was, in fact, increasingly far less obsessed with ethnic identity in terms of advancement as time passed. In reality, more than one "Barbarian" broke through the "glass ceiling", some reaching the Imperial throne. Nor do we really know the main character's motivations. We do know it ended badly for him.

    No group is totally noble or totally rapacious. There may be no "good" conqueror, but there is no "Noble Savage" either, and each group that is conquered either has already or will in the future become a conqueror. Look at the Aztecs, look at the history of any civilization you can name. There is no black and white, only shades of grey.

    I do hope that the message seen in Europe is not that once a "foreigner" or "alien" always a foreigner, and the ultimate loyalty will always be to "blood", although there are even some scholars of the ancient world who have held that trusting "New Romans" was indeed one of Rome's greatest mistakes. I also hope that the makers weren't aware that it could be seen that way.

    Good series, though, and it raises interesting questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think there was more than a bit of projection going on, especially given it was German made and the number of Turks, among others, living there.

    Rome was not the modern world. Their world view was not ours. It was, in fact, increasingly far less obsessed with ethnic identity in terms of advancement as time passed. In reality, more than one "Barbarian" broke through the "glass ceiling", some reaching the Imperial throne. Nor do we really know the main character's motivations. We do know it ended badly for him.

    No group is totally noble or totally rapacious. There may be no "good" conqueror, but there is no "Noble Savage" either, and each group that is conquered either has already or will in the future become a conqueror. Look at the Aztecs, look at the history of any civilization you can name. There is no black and white, only shades of grey.

    I do hope that the message seen in Europe is not that once a "foreigner" or "alien" always a foreigner, and the ultimate loyalty will always be to "blood", although there are even some scholars of the ancient world who have held that trusting "New Romans" was indeed one of Rome's greatest mistakes. I also hope that the makers weren't aware that it could be seen that way.

    Good series, though, and it raises interesting questions.
    Indeed not modern so the modern 'identity' thing was alien to the Roman world.
    Nevertheless 'barbarian' was not a neutral word I guess. The Roman imperium was a kind of 'colonisator' with a stretch unseen of before or even after. (Therefore the obsession from the Nazi's with das Dritte Reich?).
    Anyhow barbarian may have a functioning dehumanizing people: the Roman War machine crushed 'barbarian' people in an efficient way. And not to take the Germans very serious (may be arrogance is a better word) like Varus shows is IMO not unthinkable....

  11. #36
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    The process in which Rome engaged after a land was conquered was called, aptly enough, "Romanization". There's a lot written about it. It isn't hard to find. There's also a lot written about "identity" in the Roman world particularly after the Empire. Identity was layered, but it seems that both a North African and a Northern Brit could identify as "Romans".

    It also happened in Italy itself. Livy was not a Latin, but he fiercely identified as a Roman.

    It's one reason their empire lasted 500 years instead of not even 20 years.

  12. #37
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    If you're looking for a gritty crime series on Netflix, try Hinterland. I'm really getting into Welsh movies and tv series. The latest one I watched is on amazon if you have Acorn. It's called "Bang". The actors speak a mix of Welsh (subtitled) and English. There are plot twists and a lot of character development, great acting, and these are people I understand.

    Sometimes, with "foreign" crime procedurals I experience some jarring moments because the characters don't behave, in social terms, in ways I would expect, but that's not the case with these people.

    Oh, another great one on Amazon Prime is called "Line of Duty". I really liked it. "Prime Suspect" used to be on it but no longer is. You have to pay for the other British Channel on Amazon prime: BritBox.

    I usually rent Acorn when a few new good things show up, then do the same when good stuff shows up on BritBox or PBS. That way I'm only paying for one extra channel a month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The process in which Rome engaged after a land was conquered was called, aptly enough, "Romanization". There's a lot written about it. It isn't hard to find. There's also a lot written about "identity" in the Roman world particularly after the Empire. Identity was layered, but it seems that both a North African and a Northern Brit could identify as "Romans".

    It also happened in Italy itself. Livy was not a Latin, but he fiercely identified as a Roman.

    It's one reason their empire lasted 500 years instead of not even 20 years.
    Indeed:
    The “barbarian” figured prominently in the context of the Roman, and later of the Spanish, British, French, and the other Western European colonial empires.38 The Roman Empire sustained a strong sense of center versus periphery. Rome operated as a control panel, imposing laws, policies, educational norms, and military structures upon the provinces. In this context, being barbarian was not (always) an irremediable state, but one that could be “cured” through a civilizing process that involved Roman education (Heather 241). This idea can be compared with the civilizing mission of European colonialism. However, as opposed to the European missionaries who systematically tried to convert colonized peoples, in the Roman Empire it is not the task of the Roman to (collectively) educate and lead the ignorant barbarians to civilization.39 The educational process towards Romanitas took place more on an individual rather than on a collective level. It was primarily the responsibility of the barbarian, who should consciously wish to rise above his or her state and the society that produced him or her. In Rome, the promotion from barbarism to Romanitas was more an option for the barbarian than a systematic mission for the Roman.
    However, not every barbarian was a potential Roman citizen. There were conquered barbarians within Roman borders: those were the groups that could potentially share the benefits of Romanitas. But there was also a barbarous exterior of savagery, turbulence, aggression, and lack of organization, “waiting to be conquered” (Goffart 280). This external barbaricum, which was defined in more absolute terms, contributed to the self- perception of the Roman Empire as the order that warded off chaos from the civilized world (280).40
    https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bit...df?sequence=12

    What I didn't realize is that this Teutoburger Forest battle, was not thought on the schools in Germany since WW2, because before it was a kind of nationalistic zenith point:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/a...s-netflix.html





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    Der Spiegel (kind of German Newsweek), is quite ironic (Germanic soap) and also makes the remark about the language I initially made (use of Latin but the Germanic is nowadays).
    "Barbarians", Netflix


    Time budget: six episodes of 50 minutes each (don't watch it)
    For fans of: "The Fall of the Roman Empire"

    Do the Romans actually speak Latin in this series? That's daring. Seriously. Is it really for German television, or can you imagine that for ARD and ZDF? In the case of "Barbarians", this would-be series highlight about the struggle between Teutons and Roman occupiers, it was also in terms of innovation.


    The big advantage of the dialogues in Latin is that they at least sound nice - and not as wooden as those performed in razor high German. So far as to pamper the viewer with the most beautiful primitive Germanic, the will to authenticity does not go with Netflix. It would have been better, but also difficult, as we hardly know anything about this Cheruscan prince Arminius, who first served the Romans, then switched sides and started the battle in the Teutoburg Forest. So the "barbarian" makers paint the world of antiquity as they please. The result is a Germanic soap in which Arminius, his future wife Thusnelda and an invented Germanic warrior form a love triangle that gets the story rolling. Roles also do plenty of heads. Men with funny pigtail hairstyles and in pretty clothes swear vengeance with a grunt, there is also room for a lot of pathos - as befits a series that obviously emulates role models like "Vikings" and "The Last Kingdom". Unfortunately, "barbarians" sometimes looks like an amateur playgroup is rehearsing in the open-air museum, which gives the matter of pathos an involuntary comedy. That has at least the advantage that you don't have to take the fluffy finale, crammed with stupid war rhetoric, seriously.

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