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Thread: Can you guess the ethnic background?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW View Post
    Angela and all,

    This is my paternal grandfather....also a haplogroup T, of course.
    He had the dark hair like my Dad but otherwise a different look. I wouldn't say he has an Irish look....maybe Mediterranean?

    He actually does look distinctly Irish to me. All Europeans have what you're calling "Mediterranean" ancestry, southerners the most, then Northwest and Central, then Eastern Europeans, and Northeast Europeans the least. All of them do have it, however. There are different types of southern or "eastern" as in eastern Mediterranean ancestry. What I see in him and in some of the people in your prior family pictures are traces of what is sometimes called "small Med", more oval faces, more even, refined features. mixed to smaller or larger degrees with traces of other ancestry.

    The reason that I waffled on your grandfather is that he has what was called by old time anthropologists a slight Dinarid strain, which pops up in Italy and the Balkans. I don't see it very much in his later pictures.

    This is what I mean: It's one of Coon's anthropology plates.


    This is a man from Yorkshire who is labeled a European Dinaric on one of those old anthropology plates:


    This is someone one of those sites that specialize in this sort of thing labeled a European Dinaric. It doesn't mean he's Italian or has Italian ancestry. It's just a look that pops up here and there, not just in countries in the Balkans or in Italy. I actually think he happens to look very British Isles in ancestry.


    How he got it is anybody's guess. He could have got it from back in his mother's lines as well as some one further back in his father's line. Certain phenotypic traits aren't carried on certain y lines. They don't "stick" to them if you understand what I mean. They're on you're autosomal snps and freely combine.


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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Celtic "fringe", especially Ireland, but western Scotland as well, and Ulstermen, the so called Scots-Irish, who some may not consider "Irish", have a lot of people who retain a lot of the "Med" along with the "Atlanto" in their phenotypes. In America I see it particularly in the people of the Appalachians.



    When I first saw a picture of Loretta Lynn, I thought she looked a lot like me when I was in my twenties and early thirties, to be honest. :) It's just a mix of the ancestral populations we have in common which by happenstance result in a similar look.



    Spaniards can sometimes overlap a bit with them too, although Duarte's father (very handsome, btw, Duarte), looks very Spanish to me still, not at all British. Some can definitely fool me, though. When I first saw a picture of Tyrone Power, I was absolutely certain he was a Spaniard who had changed his name. Alas not. Completely British, with a lot of Irish in him.



    I have relatives who could fit pretty well in the picture of your very handsome family, but it has to do with shared ancient ancestry, I think, including ancient EEF/Neolithic farmer ancestry which produces that longer face and more refined features, but I don't think it is necessarily tied only to your yDna "T". I'm sure there are other y lines, and, more likely, given what happened to Neolithic y lines in Britain, lots of mtDna lines which can be traced to the Neolithic farmers of Europe.

    This is what I mean.

    Couldn't some of these people from the Lunigiana fit in pretty well in your group?




    I wouldn't mistake them for Irish, most of them, but the differences can be pretty subtle between Europeans from different countries.




    Elio Germano

    A Miss Parma:


    A good number of them I'd have difficulty with myself.

    Miss Parma contestants:


    A Miss Liguria:


    Coon talks about some of this in his books, i.e. British Mediterraneans
    http://www.nordish.org/troeplate25.htm

    One of his examples of an Atlanto-Med from near Genoa looks a lot like my Dad when he was younger.
    http://www.nordish.org/troeplate23.htm

    Your Dad to me actually had in the first picture of him a bit of this plate of what Coon calls a Dinaric. That's why I thought he looked a bit like my husband's father, who was definitely Dinaric. I don't see it the other pictures so much, however, or in the rest of the people in your family pictures. It may have just been the angle.

    Anyway, feel free to ignore any or all of this. :) It's just my subjective view of a very nebulous subject.

    BTW, did you know that Thomas Jeffferson carried a "T" haplogroup? He's the only one among all those R1bs. They definitely traced his ancestry back to somewhere in England.





    He wasn't always wrong. :)
    Honestly I don't find Coon was very good at picking models for his types, spite hs types were defined correctly at the measures level -
    his "med" from Wales is completeley under 'croma's influence and some of his other examples are not very better!

    That said there is no odd that diverse 'med' types were found in the Isles: they were there before, suffered a bit (they were pushed in less valuable lands and recovered some "wealth" after too, as Coon said, rather in suburbs of big towns - I think that in Ireland, it's not so in West but rather among Catholic Ulstermen that we can see the most of diverse 'med' input. But it is only a visible component, not the bulk of Irish people there.

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    Salento and Carlos,

    Thanks for your input into my question! I appreciate it.

    With my Grandfather doing things like feeding crocodiles, I'm surprised my Dad and I ever had the opportunity to walk this planet.

  4. #29
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    Hi Angela,

    You gave me "food for thought". The term "small Med" is new to me and I appreciate you introducing me to it.

    My Grandfather is on the right in this photo with his siblings. This was before he was befriending crocodiles.

    Hello, Moesan.


  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW View Post
    Salento and Carlos,

    Thanks for your input into my question! I appreciate it.

    With my Grandfather doing things like feeding crocodiles, I'm surprised my Dad and I ever had the opportunity to walk this planet.
    Do not worry my paternal great-grandmother had a crow as a pet and what was after her daughter-in-law, my paternal grandmother shot the real eagles to scare them away when their little children played and the sky filled with eagles.

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