I2 in Peloponnesus, Greece. Origins?

Yep and then they were slaughtered by Nikiphoros the I and were confined in what is now Serbia. Their genetic impact in Peloponnese was minimal.

Maybe minimal in the Peloponnese. Aside from 2 well documented Slavic tribes there(Melingoi/Ezeritai). However, in the rest of Greece(unless due to bottlenecks/founder effects which is yet to be proven) it appears to have left significant impact(especially in North/North-East Greece). Slavic Y-DNA in Greece fluctuates between 10-40 percent region to region. Even the Peloponnese has about 10-20 percent(which is most probably from the Melingoi/Ezeritai). When I say bottlenecks/founder effects I mean it could be from one Slavic guy that was assimilated and whose sons had a demographic boom later as Greeks. This is yet to be proven however, and it seems Slavs impacted Greece pretty significantly in the Middle Ages, including the rest of the Balkans. The only real safe haven were isolated mountainous regions. Which is why Gheg Albanians have only between 5-10 percent of it.
 
In the 7th century the southern Slavs became the predominant population of the Balkan Peninsula. Gradually, they occupy the Moesia, Thrace, the Rhodopes, the Aegean Sea, some of the Aegean islands and all of Macedonia, which in the 7th and 8th centuries also began to be called Sklavinias. The southern Slavs are also settling today's Albania, the Adriatic coast of today's Greece and even the Peloponnese. Slavs are settled in Asia Minor.
Yes you will find plenty of j2 and e-v13 in Russians and Poles like in Bulgarians and Skopians
What no?
 
Maybe minimal in the Peloponnese. Aside from 2 well documented Slavic tribes there(Melingoi/Ezeritai). However, in the rest of Greece(unless due to bottlenecks/founder effects which is yet to be proven) it appears to have left significant impact(especially in North/North-East Greece). Slavic Y-DNA in Greece fluctuates between 10-40 percent region to region. Even the Peloponnese has about 10-20 percent(which is most probably from the Melingoi/Ezeritai). When I say bottlenecks/founder effects I mean it could be from one Slavic guy that was assimilated and whose sons had a demographic boom later as Greeks. This is yet to be proven however, and it seems Slavs impacted Greece pretty significantly in the Middle Ages, including the rest of the Balkans. The only real safe haven were isolated mountainous regions. Which is why Gheg Albanians have only between 5-10 percent of it.
What's ''slavic y-dna''
Tells us so we can laugh all together.
Then tell us what is greek y dna so we can laugh even harder with the necessary complications of it.
 
Haplogroup I was mesolithic hunter gatherer. It was probably in greece since it stepped foot in europe
I would say more likely it is a certainty.
I2 is 30 000 year old, and it was the dominant yDNa linage in the Balkans and all the way to the Ukrainian steppes.
E-v13 for comparison is half of that age, and in contrast to I2 it was associated with agricultural civilizations and trade, thus it has higher concentration along the coastal line of the Balkans and east med.
Proto-Greeks probably arrived later with dominant lines R1b-j2, via the northern Anatolian pathway to settle first in the islands and then in northern Greece and mingle with the locals. Their first descent corresponds with the Minoan civilization, the second with the sea people raids (probably caused by climate changes due to volcanic eruption), and the third with the Dorian descent. The continuum of the Greek languages and other closely related languages, like the phrygian, is possible evidence to that hypothesis.
 
I would say more likely it is a certainty.
I2 is 30 000 year old, and it was the dominant yDNa linage in the Balkans and all the way to the Ukrainian steppes.
E-v13 for comparison is half of that age, and in contrast to I2 it was associated with agricultural civilizations and trade, thus it has higher concentration along the coastal line of the Balkans and east med.
Proto-Greeks probably arrived later with dominant lines R1b-j2, via the northern Anatolian pathway to settle first in the islands and then in northern Greece and mingle with the locals. Their first descent corresponds with the Minoan civilization, the second with the sea people raids (probably caused by climate changes due to volcanic eruption), and the third with the Dorian descent. The continuum of the Greek languages and other closely related languages, like the phrygian, is possible evidence to that hypothesis.
more likely e v13+r1b+j2 came together
 
What's ''slavic y-dna''
Tells us so we can laugh all together.
Then tell us what is greek y dna so we can laugh even harder with the necessary complications of it.

I can tell you are a T-Roll who refuses to accept the academic/scientific consensus based upon the evidence and instead of coming to terms with the genetic impacts Slavs had in Greece and the Balkans, you make a sheer mockery of the matter. I2 in Greece and in the Peloponnesus in general is mostly I2a1b-Din which is a SLAVIC haplogroup among others like R1a-M458/R1a-Z280.

Now go along and “Laugh”. I just hope you realize everyone else laughing will be at you and not with you.
 
There is obviously discontinuity in the Balkans. A quick look at Mesolithic Serbia at Iron Gates turns up R1b-V88 and I2-M223, both of which are nearly absent today in the same region. The latter, and it really depends on the subclade, does popup frequently in western Europe so some of the modern distribution could have arrived later from the west and north. I'm not sure why the former R-V88 is at negligible levels today, that seems to be the case outside of the Levant and central and northern Africa.
You also can't just say "I2", as that is even more irrelevant than the big distinctions between R-V88 and R-M269 which is large enough as it is. Some of the young branches under I2-M423 are only about 2200 years old, and probably even a few centuries younger when you consider the rapid expansion. This is most definitely from the migration period of people from the NE of Europe being pushed into the Balkans by East Asian tribes who completely decimated eastern Europe and the steppe region.

We can always use more data from the Bronze Age and Copper Age balkans, but I would be very surprised if these young branches of I2 and R1a were found in the area, despite being in high frequency today.
 
A region can have a specific haplogroup even though the population the haplogroup originated from didn't have a significant impact in the culture. For example, Basques are mainly R1b-DF27 which is a Celtic lineage, even though they don't speak an indoeuropean language and they are autosomically different to the rest of Iberia.
Moreover, I2 is a very old haplogroup, but the specific clades that are more common in the Balkans are pretty recent and are compatible with the Slavic migrations.
 
I can tell you are a T-Roll who refuses to accept the academic/scientific consensus based upon the evidence and instead of coming to terms with the genetic impacts Slavs had in Greece and the Balkans, you make a sheer mockery of the matter. I2 in Greece and in the Peloponnesus in general is mostly I2a1b-Din which is a SLAVIC haplogroup among others like R1a-M458/R1a-Z280.

Now go along and “Laugh”. I just hope you realize everyone else laughing will be at you and not with you.
Why dont you point me out to the scientific papers that claim that :
a) that I2 and R1a found in Greece are of those clades, and how you compute them to be..40
%, when the entire R1a and I2 in Greece combined are..20%.
b) i2a1b-Din, native to the Balkans, predominately in the Balkan, is a marker of ..Slavic ancestry.
c) why the hunter gatherers of prehistory, when most certainly all of the i2 were formed, living in the interior of the balkans, stopped at the present borders of Greece, so it could only arrive with the slavs(and not 10 000 years before there was even a protoindoeuropean language.
d)why in the world a marker of a haplogroup not related to indoeuropeans, to be a marker for specific indoeuropeans that arrived in the area in 1000 years ago.
e) that R1a-M458/R1a-Z280 that are probably 3000 years older than anything resembling protoslavs,
is a marker of ''Slavic'' ancestry. when it is found all over central and eastern Europe, in all ethnicities.
Maybe again the ancient migrations stopped at the borders of Greece again, right comrade?

And when you are done with all of that, then go further than that and prove that the scientific papers that support your claims, are the ..scientific consensus.
I think you and i both know that by science and scientific consensus what you really mean is your wild (albanianist) imagination.
 
Practically all the clades of I-CTS10228 in the Balkans are of Slavic origin, arriving from Eastern Europe into the Balkans during the 6-7th Centuries. The native Balkan origin theory is outdated and has been debunked. Not sure why we still have to go through this in 2019.
 
Practically all the clades of I-CTS10228 in the Balkans are of Slavic origin, arriving from Eastern Europe into the Balkans during the 6-7th Centuries. The native Balkan origin theory is outdated and has been debunked. Not sure why we still have to go through this in 2019.

Yes it was debunked from the Albanian scientist ''MArko'' with PhDs in forum diatribes from UC Tropuja.
 
Yes it was debunked from the Albanian scientist ''MArko'' with PhDs in forum diatribes from UC Tropuja.
Uh no...

I'm going to keep it simple here.

Evidence for origin outside of Balkans:
- Highest diversity is found in the region around Ukraine, Poland and Belarus. Interestingly, the Slavic homeland is theorised to have been here.
- Oldest samples have been found in Poland and Russia, not a single Balkan sample. Ancestral clades found in ancient samples from Northern and Western Europe
- Brother clades are almost exclusively found in Western Europe
- TMRCA of major clades under Y3120 have TMRCAs which fit in well with the Slavic expansions. Many of these clades are found across Eastern Europe.

Evidence for Balkan origin:
- Literally nothing of note (frequency practically means nothing)
 

when the entire R1a and I2 in Greece combined are..20%

I don't know what's bothering you? This means that about 20% of today's Greeks are originally Slavic and possible smaller part White Croatian origin. That's what genetics says. There is no hiding.
Also a good part of the Balkan Slavs have a source in White Croatia. Part of the Albanians also have White Croatian, Slavic possibly and Croatian genetic, just as Croats have part of Albanian(Illyrian) genetics. Assimilation goes in all directions.

Why all the drama when it can not be changed?
 
Why dont you point me out to the scientific papers that claim that :
a) that I2 and R1a found in Greece are of those clades, and how you compute them to be..40
%, when the entire R1a and I2 in Greece combined are..20%.
b) i2a1b-Din, native to the Balkans, predominately in the Balkan, is a marker of ..Slavic ancestry.
c) why the hunter gatherers of prehistory, when most certainly all of the i2 were formed, living in the interior of the balkans, stopped at the present borders of Greece, so it could only arrive with the slavs(and not 10 000 years before there was even a protoindoeuropean language.
d)why in the world a marker of a haplogroup not related to indoeuropeans, to be a marker for specific indoeuropeans that arrived in the area in 1000 years ago.
e) that R1a-M458/R1a-Z280 that are probably 3000 years older than anything resembling protoslavs,
is a marker of ''Slavic'' ancestry. when it is found all over central and eastern Europe, in all ethnicities.
Maybe again the ancient migrations stopped at the borders of Greece again, right comrade?

And when you are done with all of that, then go further than that and prove that the scientific papers that support your claims, are the ..scientific consensus.
I think you and i both know that by science and scientific consensus what you really mean is your wild (albanianist) imagination.

Moron. I’m Albanian and R1a. Despite being part of an Albanian founder effect, what exactly do I have to gain from this so called “albanianist imagination”?

I’m not going to sift through the numerous studies that mention this. You’re not a baby. It doesn’t become less of a fact because you don’t like the reality. Your claims of I2/R1a literally came out of your a s s. Here you go, not perfect but illustrates my point.

The total Slavic Ydna in Greece is between 15-35 percent nationally. There is literally no updated science that classified them as anything but Balto-Slavic. Accept the reality.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml - search m458/z280


https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml -search cts10228

R1a-Z280:5-7.5% throughout Greece. Most clades shared with Slavs 1000-2000 years.

URL]


R1a-M458: 5-7.5% throughout Greece. Most clades shared with Slavs 1000-2000 years ago.

URL]


I2a1(almost entirely CTS10228): between 5-20% in any given area. Most clades shared with Slavs between 1000-2100 years.

URL]
 
Moron. I’m Albanian and R1a. Despite being part of an Albanian founder effect, what exactly do I have to gain from this so called “albanianist imagination”?
Listen Albanian ..Abraham,Slavs came from Ukraine as tribes not isolates, pushed by population movements.
So their profile must be the same as the profile of people of central west Ukraine. The problem with your little theory, Slavic DnA in its the purest form, which necessarily must be in Ukraine, not only cause it was the cradle of Slavs, but the outflow of people was always out of the region not into it , doesnt have much I2 , Din or otherwise. Central and western Slavs have even less. Even Serbs and Bulgarians that should have been heavily mixed with the locals(and are) have higher I2 linages than Ukrainians. How in the world that would have been even mathematical possible? It defies logic .

Go ahead, Show me any model, try your best, that I2+R1a starts in any analogy from Ukraine(25%i2 50%R1a there), and with in 200-300 years it reaches Bosnian Croats at 70% I2 and 10% R1a.
Go ahead..
I’m not going to sift through the numerous studies that mention this. You’re not a baby. It doesn’t become less of a fact because you don’t like the reality. Your claims of I2/R1a literally came out of your a s s. Here you go, not perfect but illustrates my point.
You arent going to back up your claims with anything resembling evidence, yet alone studies, but you will refer me to pictures.
Ok buddy.
The total Slavic Ydna in Greece is between 15-35 percent nationally. There is literally no updated science that classified them as anything but Balto-Slavic. Accept the reality.
That's not reality , that's your opinion which you only base on hot Albanian air. Maybe an Albanian Reality.
FACT=I2 is native to the Balkans!
FACT=I2 traveled to the 4 corners of Europe!
FACT=I2 Din is local to the Balkans , especially high in the areas of historical Illyria.
FACT=Balkanic interior people were hunter gatherers.
FACT=Greece has the most ancient homo and hominid archaeological evidence of hunter gatherers in Europe(at least).
FACT=Archaeological evidence show continuous habitation of Balkans interior, from Croatia and western Romania, to Bosnia and western Bulgaria to the Greek shores, from 15000 to 5000Bc from a Mesolithic civilization.

All the above are evidence based FACTS!

Let's see what it must be true in order your Albanian theory to be correct.
a) Hunter gatherers in Greece went extinct so they didn't inherited (via mixing) genetic lineages to the arriving pre-greeks(etegreeks) which were of Ev13 and J2 lineages(otherwise they would be recorded in modern Greeks too along with the Ev13 and J2)
b) Hunter gathers from the Balkan interior(on the premise that I2 is native to the Balkans and they were carriers of that linage) for 30 000 years never crossed Greece borders,although the climate during the last ice and at the end of the ice age all the way to prehistory(30 000 Bc to 10 000 Bc), would have been ideal in Greece, and in spite Greece been 200 Km away. They did find their way, though, amidst the last ice age, to Ukraine where the Climate was life prohibiting Tundra(that's a fact too, the timeline a ? though).
c)Then in Ukraine they remained there in for 10 to 20 000 years, until the Slavic migrations started, and they reintroduced the I2 in central and easter Europe , and the Balkans.
d)all other clades of I2 in the Balkans, meanwhile went an extinction event and disappeared , so now The I2 dinaric is the only one found in the Balkans(more or less), although that must have happened more than 7000 years ago, as in Yugoslavs in the region there are sizable numbers of J2 and E-v13 linages, who didnt arrive in the Balkans before 7000Bc, that inherited their lineages to the the Yougoslavs, but among them not a linage of I2 (as it isnt found in modern yougoslavs/other than i2din). The Balkanic Mesolithic civilization therefor that lasted from 15000 to 5000 bc, cant be a creation of people of J2 or E-v13 lineages, cause they weren't there, and cant be a product of I2 lineage people cause they went extinct in the middle of the era.
Maybe it was Martians.
e) Finally I2 Din is reintroduced in the Balkans with the arriving Slavs, and into Greece too.

All these must necessarily be true according to your hypothesis.
Do you have any idea how nonsensical all that sound?

OR..

We can go with common scene, Logic of Ockham's razor . I2 Din was already in the Balkans and spread around geographically( as other I2 clades have done earlierall over Europe(literally) in much harsher conditions) over 10 000 years, long before there was anyone resembling indoeruopean in Europe, and via mixing it was inherited to the (eventually) Indoeuropean nationalities(as j2 and E-v13 did) Balkanic nations came from the mixing of preexisting populations and the arriving indoEuropean elite,which was the minority. Same occurred with the Yugoslavs and it is reflected in their genetics. Why so high concentrations of I2 in Bosnia then, higher than near by Serbia and croatia? Cause Bosnia is one long inhospitable mountain range, at the peak of the Dinaric alps, that dint appeal to agriculturalist and other trade based civilizations. Geography kept them relatively insulated until the modern era.
 
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Listen Albanian .......

How about you come try and make me Greek?

There is literally more holes than Swiss cheese in the nonsense you’re spewing. You know nothing about Ydna or even subclades to make anything remotely close to an accurate statement.

You are so deluded that instead of accepting the reality of the genetic impact barbarian raids had in your land, you twist the truth to comfort your deflated ego.

Too hard for you to accept the genetic impact left but Slavs in Greece and The Balkans?

ancient? even a laymen who only casually researches genetics doesn’t have their head buried as deep into their bum as you do.


il defer to experts instead of a Greek whose I2a1b-Din and cant fathom his ancestors being descended from ancient Slavs instead of “Alexander” without wanting to put a 12 gauge into his mouth pulling the trigger.

you’re such a short bus it ain’t even funny. Get used to it 15-35 percent of Greeks only trace their ancestor to Slavs 1500 years ago. I’m not going to baby you. You ignored the links I posted as well that weren’t pictures of maps. Links that refer to studies and ages of clades in the Balkans.

Middle Ages short bus, Middle Ages. Learn the difference. Why did you delete I2a1b from your profile if you’re sure it’s ancient Balkan? I guess all the experts really missed the mark and need the help of basement dweller Parapolitikos instead. You know because I guess their research and degrees count for little beside the supreme intellect of a Greek!(that was sarcasm).

You remind of the Greek user catgeorge on apricity who claims I2a1b is ancient Thracian. He can’t come to terms with having a Slavic ancestor either.

Ancient dna? Polish and Russian Slavs. Ancient Balkan dna? A Neolithic basal I2a1 that is over 10000 years separated from the clades in the Balkans which are entirely from Slavic migration.

All CTS10228 men descend from one survivor in 100 BC. The most prolific sub clade in the Balkans only to 200AD. Please enlighten us oh wise one on how nearly 100 percent of I2a1b in modern men, descending from 1 man between 100BCE-200CE, of which nearly 100 percent of men are Slavic, somehow spread from the Balkans and Ancient Greece. If R1a-“/I2a is not Slavic WHAT IS?


Ge the hell out of here with your uninformed self.

Would you like a whaaburger with your French cries sir?
 
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Listen Albanian ..Abraham,Slavs came from Ukraine as tribes not isolates, pushed by population movements.
So their profile must be the same as the profile of people of central west Ukraine. The problem with your little theory, Slavic DnA in its the purest form, which necessarily must be in Ukraine, not only cause it was the cradle of Slavs, but the outflow of people was always out of the region not into it , doesnt have much I2 , Din or otherwise. Central and western Slavs have even less. Even Serbs and Bulgarians that should have been heavily mixed with the locals(and are) have higher I2 linages than Ukrainians. How in the world that would have been even mathematical possible? It defies logic .

Go ahead, Show me any model, try your best, that I2+R1a starts in any analogy from Ukraine(25%i2 50%R1a there), and with in 200-300 years it reaches Bosnian Croats at 70% I2 and 10% R1a.
Go ahead..
You arent going to back up your claims with anything resembling evidence, yet alone studies, but you will refer me to pictures.
Ok buddy.
That's not reality , that's your opinion which you only base on hot Albanian air. Maybe an Albanian Reality.
FACT=I2 is native to the Balkans!
FACT=I2 traveled to the 4 corners of Europe!
FACT=I2 Din is local to the Balkans , especially high in the areas of historical Illyria.
FACT=Balkanic interior people were hunter gatherers.
FACT=Greece has the most ancient homo and hominid archaeological evidence of hunter gatherers in Europe(at least).
FACT=Archaeological evidence show continuous habitation of Balkans interior, from Croatia and western Romania, to Bosnia and western Bulgaria to the Greek shores, from 15000 to 5000Bc from a Mesolithic civilization.

All the above are evidence based FACTS!

Let's see what it must be true in order your Albanian theory to be correct.
a) Hunter gatherers in Greece went extinct so they didn't inherited (via mixing) genetic lineages to the arriving pre-greeks(etegreeks) which were of Ev13 and J2 lineages(otherwise they would be recorded in modern Greeks too along with the Ev13 and J2)
b) Hunter gathers from the Balkan interior(on the premise that I2 is native to the Balkans and they were carriers of that linage) for 30 000 years never crossed Greece borders,although the climate during the last ice and at the end of the ice age all the way to prehistory(30 000 Bc to 10 000 Bc), would have been ideal in Greece, and in spite Greece been 200 Km away. They did find their way, though, amidst the last ice age, to Ukraine where the Climate was life prohibiting Tundra(that's a fact too, the timeline a ? though).
c)Then in Ukraine they remained there in for 10 to 20 000 years, until the Slavic migrations started, and they reintroduced the I2 in central and easter Europe , and the Balkans.
d)all other clades of I2 in the Balkans, meanwhile went an extinction event and disappeared , so now The I2 dinaric is the only one found in the Balkans(more or less), although that must have happened more than 7000 years ago, as in Yugoslavs in the region there are sizable numbers of J2 and E-v13 linages, who didnt arrive in the Balkans before 7000Bc, that inherited their lineages to the the Yougoslavs, but among them not a linage of I2 (as it isnt found in modern yougoslavs/other than i2din). The Balkanic Mesolithic civilization therefor that lasted from 15000 to 5000 bc, cant be a creation of people of J2 or E-v13 lineages, cause they weren't there, and cant be a product of I2 lineage people cause they went extinct in the middle of the era.
Maybe it was Martians.
e) Finally I2 Din is reintroduced in the Balkans with the arriving Slavs, and into Greece too.

All these must necessarily be true according to your hypothesis.
Do you have any idea how nonsensical all that sound?

OR..

We can go with common scene, Logic of Ockham's razor . I2 Din was already in the Balkans and spread around geographically( as other I2 clades have done earlierall over Europe(literally) in much harsher conditions) over 10 000 years, long before there was anyone resembling indoeruopean in Europe, and via mixing it was inherited to the (eventually) Indoeuropean nationalities(as j2 and E-v13 did) Balkanic nations came from the mixing of preexisting populations and the arriving indoEuropean elite,which was the minority. Same occurred with the Yugoslavs and it is reflected in their genetics. Why so high concentrations of I2 in Bosnia then, higher than near by Serbia and croatia? Cause Bosnia is one long inhospitable mountain range, at the peak of the Dinaric alps, that dint appeal to agriculturalist and other trade based civilizations. Geography kept them relatively insulated until the modern era.
I don't understand why you lot are so insecure when it comes to having Slavic DNA, complexes much....

The reason why I2a-Y3120 is so high in modern day South Slavs is because of founder effects, simply put they had far more male offspring than the others. Frequency means literally nothing. Fact is that CTS10228 and Y3120 don't reach high diversity in the Balkans, but they do in Eastern Europe. Plus the TMRCA fits with Slavic expansion. Please explain how a clade that reaches highest diversity in Eastern Europe, has ancient DNA samples in Eastern Europe and has TMRCA fitting with Slavic migrations is native to the Balkans?

The argument that the Slavs had no genetic influence because of the mountain ranges in the Balkans is pure nonsense and fantasy. Cultures that formerly lived in steppe or forested areas can easily adapt to mountainous terrains. This is evident by how the Slavic culture, language and genetics were able to be spread across the Balkans.

You're just typing nonsense at this point, please read over what you have written. Also learn the difference between I2 and I2a-Y3120, they aren't the same thing you know..
 
Listen Albanian ..Abraham,Slavs came from Ukraine as tribes not isolates, pushed by population movements.
So their profile must be the same as the profile of people of central west Ukraine. The problem with your little theory, Slavic DnA in its the purest form, which necessarily must be in Ukraine, not only cause it was the cradle of Slavs, but the outflow of people was always out of the region not into it , doesnt have much I2 , Din or otherwise. Central and western Slavs have even less. Even Serbs and Bulgarians that should have been heavily mixed with the locals(and are) have higher I2 linages than Ukrainians. How in the world that would have been even mathematical possible? It defies logic .

Go ahead, Show me any model, try your best, that I2+R1a starts in any analogy from Ukraine(25%i2 50%R1a there), and with in 200-300 years it reaches Bosnian Croats at 70% I2 and 10% R1a.
Go ahead..
You arent going to back up your claims with anything resembling evidence, yet alone studies, but you will refer me to pictures.
Ok buddy.
That's not reality , that's your opinion which you only base on hot Albanian air. Maybe an Albanian Reality.
FACT=I2 is native to the Balkans!
FACT=I2 traveled to the 4 corners of Europe!
FACT=I2 Din is local to the Balkans , especially high in the areas of historical Illyria.
FACT=Balkanic interior people were hunter gatherers.
FACT=Greece has the most ancient homo and hominid archaeological evidence of hunter gatherers in Europe(at least).
FACT=Archaeological evidence show continuous habitation of Balkans interior, from Croatia and western Romania, to Bosnia and western Bulgaria to the Greek shores, from 15000 to 5000Bc from a Mesolithic civilization.

All the above are evidence based FACTS!

Let's see what it must be true in order your Albanian theory to be correct.
a) Hunter gatherers in Greece went extinct so they didn't inherited (via mixing) genetic lineages to the arriving pre-greeks(etegreeks) which were of Ev13 and J2 lineages(otherwise they would be recorded in modern Greeks too along with the Ev13 and J2)
b) Hunter gathers from the Balkan interior(on the premise that I2 is native to the Balkans and they were carriers of that linage) for 30 000 years never crossed Greece borders,although the climate during the last ice and at the end of the ice age all the way to prehistory(30 000 Bc to 10 000 Bc), would have been ideal in Greece, and in spite Greece been 200 Km away. They did find their way, though, amidst the last ice age, to Ukraine where the Climate was life prohibiting Tundra(that's a fact too, the timeline a ? though).
c)Then in Ukraine they remained there in for 10 to 20 000 years, until the Slavic migrations started, and they reintroduced the I2 in central and easter Europe , and the Balkans.
d)all other clades of I2 in the Balkans, meanwhile went an extinction event and disappeared , so now The I2 dinaric is the only one found in the Balkans(more or less), although that must have happened more than 7000 years ago, as in Yugoslavs in the region there are sizable numbers of J2 and E-v13 linages, who didnt arrive in the Balkans before 7000Bc, that inherited their lineages to the the Yougoslavs, but among them not a linage of I2 (as it isnt found in modern yougoslavs/other than i2din). The Balkanic Mesolithic civilization therefor that lasted from 15000 to 5000 bc, cant be a creation of people of J2 or E-v13 lineages, cause they weren't there, and cant be a product of I2 lineage people cause they went extinct in the middle of the era.
Maybe it was Martians.
e) Finally I2 Din is reintroduced in the Balkans with the arriving Slavs, and into Greece too.

All these must necessarily be true according to your hypothesis.
Do you have any idea how nonsensical all that sound?

OR..

We can go with common scene, Logic of Ockham's razor . I2 Din was already in the Balkans and spread around geographically( as other I2 clades have done earlierall over Europe(literally) in much harsher conditions) over 10 000 years, long before there was anyone resembling indoeruopean in Europe, and via mixing it was inherited to the (eventually) Indoeuropean nationalities(as j2 and E-v13 did) Balkanic nations came from the mixing of preexisting populations and the arriving indoEuropean elite,which was the minority. Same occurred with the Yugoslavs and it is reflected in their genetics. Why so high concentrations of I2 in Bosnia then, higher than near by Serbia and croatia? Cause Bosnia is one long inhospitable mountain range, at the peak of the Dinaric alps, that dint appeal to agriculturalist and other trade based civilizations. Geography kept them relatively insulated until the modern era.

you have a very simplified view of Slavic migration. It did not happen overnight. Happened gradually in the course of 2 centuries. First waves came earlier in 6th century. Last waves were bigger and most settle in Greek, South Albanian areas. On their way to Balkans they assimilated different groups and mixed with locals. So that's why Slavs of south are now different from south Poland. Slavs left toponyms all around Greece,. Greek government erased them by decree. You know better if there is any one left. Fallmerayer was astonished by large numbers of Slavic speakers when visited Greece. So largely I2 subgroup is slavic
 
I'm not a supporter of the theory that I2a-Din is originally Slavic but that it became along the way.

Just because its expansion coincides with the Slavic migrations it doesn't prove that it was Slavic. All the Eastern and Central European tribes were migrating at the time. It was the fall of the Roman Empire and they were being pushed and carried around by Huns and Alans and other Eastern tribes from the steppes.

The connection of I2a-Din with I2a-Disles and the fact that the closest relative of I2a-Din lives in France nowadays brings us to the Celto-Germanic migrations eastwards.
 
I'm not a supporter of the theory that I2a-Din is originally Slavic but that it became along the way.

Just because its expansion coincides with the Slavic migrations it doesn't prove that it was Slavic. All the Eastern and Central European tribes were migrating at the time. It was the fall of the Roman Empire and they were being pushed and carried around by Huns and Alans and other Eastern tribes from the steppes.

The connection of I2a-Din with I2a-Disles and the fact that the closest relative of I2a-Din lives in France nowadays brings us to the Celto-Germanic migrations eastwards.
It's not only TMRCA which suggests an origin among Early or Proto-Slavs, it's also the fact that CTS10228>Y3120 is most diverse in the area where the Slavs first emerged (Poland-Ukraine-Belarus). When referring to I2a-Din, most are referring to CTS10228 or CTS10228>Y3120.

A more western origin for CTS10228 is likely given where the ancestral and brother clades are found. So it's possible that the first CTS10228 carriers that arrived to Eastern Europe were Germanic speakers. The french sample that is CTS10228* is from the Bas-Rhin area which has a large German population, so it's likely that he has German origin.

Data suggests that I-Y3120 took part in the ethnogenesis of the Slavs and the clades present in the Balkans today have ancestral and brother clades found in Eastern European Slavs, this suggests that Y3120 arrived with Slavic speaking peoples.
 

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