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Thread: I2 in Peloponnesus, Greece. Origins?

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    I2 in Peloponnesus, Greece. Origins?

    I recently discovered my Paternal Halpogroup is I2..
    I find it unusual since my family origins are from the very southern eastern part of Peloponesia. Historically, they have lived there for many many generations.From my Fathers side, they tend to be olive in complexion, light brown eyes , and curly hair.. Very Mediterranean. Like the ancient Greeks depicted in ancient marble statutes and pottery ..
    Not at all Slavic in appearance in fact. I tend to notice many Greeks to have the same characteristics in the southern region of Greece. And very fair skin Greeks that would never be able to tolerate the rays of the sun? Very low melanin count in their pigmentations.?
    so I’m confused..Halpogroup I2 is very Central Europe..I would appreciate some insight from and Anthropological perspective and genealogical..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickny007 View Post
    I recently discovered my Paternal Halpogroup is I2..
    I find it unusual since my family origins are from the very southern eastern part of Peloponesia. Historically, they have lived there for many many generations.From my Fathers side, they tend to be olive in complexion, light brown eyes , and curly hair.. Very Mediterranean. Like the ancient Greeks depicted in ancient marble statutes and pottery ..
    Not at all Slavic in appearance in fact. I tend to notice many Greeks to have the same characteristics in the southern region of Greece. And very fair skin Greeks that would never be able to tolerate the rays of the sun? Very low melanin count in their pigmentations.?
    so I’m confused..Halpogroup I2 is very Central Europe..I would appreciate some insight from and Anthropological perspective and genealogical..
    You could still look like that even if your father came straight from Poland but your mother is Lebanese looking. So after hundreds of years of mixing with locals those Central European or Balkanic features will eventually disappear but occasionally.

    I2 could have arrived with early Slavs or later with Albanians during the middle ages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickny007 View Post
    I recently discovered my Paternal Halpogroup is I2..
    I find it unusual since my family origins are from the very southern eastern part of Peloponesia. Historically, they have lived there for many many generations.From my Fathers side, they tend to be olive in complexion, light brown eyes , and curly hair.. Very Mediterranean. Like the ancient Greeks depicted in ancient marble statutes and pottery ..
    Not at all Slavic in appearance in fact. I tend to notice many Greeks to have the same characteristics in the southern region of Greece. And very fair skin Greeks that would never be able to tolerate the rays of the sun? Very low melanin count in their pigmentations.?
    so I’m confused..Halpogroup I2 is very Central Europe..I would appreciate some insight from and Anthropological perspective and genealogical..
    Yet Kim Kardashian looks super-Armenian, despite having a NW-Euro mother and Armenian father.

    Your I2 probably falls under I2a1b-CTS10228, which arrived with the Slavs to the Balkans, and Greece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickny007 View Post
    I recently discovered my Paternal Halpogroup is I2..
    I find it unusual since my family origins are from the very southern eastern part of Peloponesia. Historically, they have lived there for many many generations.From my Fathers side, they tend to be olive in complexion, light brown eyes , and curly hair.. Very Mediterranean. Like the ancient Greeks depicted in ancient marble statutes and pottery ..
    Not at all Slavic in appearance in fact. I tend to notice many Greeks to have the same characteristics in the southern region of Greece. And very fair skin Greeks that would never be able to tolerate the rays of the sun? Very low melanin count in their pigmentations.?
    so I’m confused..Halpogroup I2 is very Central Europe..I would appreciate some insight from and Anthropological perspective and genealogical..
    What is your exact clade? I2 is a little general. Here are a number of scenarios.

    If you are I2a2a, I think it was found in the ancient Balkans. More often than not it is Germanic I2a2a. However some has been found in ancient Balkans. This is least likely. Its very low and seems shared between Albanians/Greeks/Pomaks.

    The second scenario, I2a1a, this has so far been found in an Albanian from Macedonia. Considering its northwestern spread, it could be Norman, or even Gothic. Still pretty slim chance.

    Most probably you belong to I2a1b-Din-CTS10228. You could belong to a older Greek founder effect clade A2512 that maybe came with Bastarnae or with Jews. So far it is only found in Greeks and East Euro Jews.

    Majority of Greek I2a1b-Din belongs to typical Slavic clades that came anywhere between the early middle ages over-running Greece(mostly the north) up to the Bulgarian empire.

    Considering you're from the Peloponnese, there were two Slavic tribes that settled there. You have the Melingoi(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melingoi) and the Ezeritai(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezeritai).

    It doesn't make you any less Greek, only your ancient forefather. Most of these lineages that hit the south of Greece or Central and Southern Albania were all absorbed early on by the Byzantines and later probably disseminated into Albanian/Vlach/Greek ethnos. The tribes that resisted integration and dominated the surrounding areas became the Southern Slavs later on.

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    I2 in Greece does not necessarily have to be of Slavic origin your Fathers ancestors could have been considered Greeks long before Slavic invasions

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    You would need to be tested for the I2a subclade. It appears clear that most of the so-called Dinaric branches of I2a were brought by Slavic speakers. Looking at data for branches of CTS10228-Y3120, many Slavic people are in the branches.

    In Y3120-Y18331, there are Greeks but no South Slavs or East Europe Slavs, except for a Chuvash man and a Russian man from farther east whose ancestors could have come from the Black Sea region. Greeks are in all the major branches and have primary positions, like Y18331* and A2512*. The subbranch A10959 has only Greeks and Jews and formed a long time ago, per estimates, and the Jews and Greeks split a long time ago into their own A10959 subbranches. There are no Jews in the Greek subbranch and vice versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickny007 View Post
    I recently discovered my Paternal Halpogroup is I2..
    I find it unusual since my family origins are from the very southern eastern part of Peloponesia. Historically, they have lived there for many many generations.From my Fathers side, they tend to be olive in complexion, light brown eyes , and curly hair.. Very Mediterranean. Like the ancient Greeks depicted in ancient marble statutes and pottery ..
    Not at all Slavic in appearance in fact. I tend to notice many Greeks to have the same characteristics in the southern region of Greece. And very fair skin Greeks that would never be able to tolerate the rays of the sun? Very low melanin count in their pigmentations.?
    so I’m confused..Halpogroup I2 is very Central Europe..I would appreciate some insight from and Anthropological perspective and genealogical..
    what I2 subclade do you have? I2 is not associated with Slavic people. R1a is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    what I2 subclade do you have? I2 is not associated with Slavic people. R1a is.
    wrong. I2-CTS10228 is near entirely Slavic. It was also found in medieval Pole. I2/R1a and clades of many other haplos has founder effects and bottlenecks associated with the Slavic migration.

    In fact I2a-CTS10228 may well be the ingredient that differentiated Proto-Slavs from the R1a Balto-Slavic Union.

    Nearly 100 percent of all I2 in Slavs falls under CTS10228. It is the clearest marker next to select R1a clades that participated in migration.

    No culture/group is one haplogroup.

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    Reverse psychology's biggest trap:you can end up being right.


    I2a peaks in Herzegovinians,this already is enough to prove that the Slavic hg bottlenecked with the help of the isolated Vlach communities, living in catuns/katuns.


    Another evidence,among the Serbs, those from Bosnia have the highest I2a/R1a ratio,while the Aromanians from Slavic environment (Macedonia) get clearly more R1a than the rest.


    Higher R1a/I2a ratio can be found in Slavic populations with less Paleo-Balkan input,such as Slovenians,Croats,and even in parts of Greece that don't have significant Aromanians ancestry(see for example the higher levels of I2a in the southern parts,of Vlach and Sarakatsani origin,while the north has more R1a).
    Last edited by Dreptul Valah; 30-06-19 at 15:40.

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlac...nd_Herzegovina


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DN...ions_of_Europe


    In the case of Herzegovinians,although very Dinaric/Paleo-Balkanic,we should expect a higher Vlach YDNA input than an autosomal one.



    http://www.farsarotul.org/nl16_1.htm
    Last edited by Dreptul Valah; 30-06-19 at 14:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    wrong. I2-CTS10228 is near entirely Slavic. It was also found in medieval Pole. I2/R1a and clades of many other haplos has founder effects and bottlenecks associated with the Slavic migration.

    In fact I2a-CTS10228 may well be the ingredient that differentiated Proto-Slavs from the R1a Balto-Slavic Union.

    Nearly 100 percent of all I2 in Slavs falls under CTS10228. It is the clearest marker next to select R1a clades that participated in migration.

    No culture/group is one haplogroup.
    Haplogroup I is the first humans in Europe after Neanderthals. They were no Slavs. Slaves during their expansion from Caspian sea conquered various people of Europe and Slavicized them. Haplogroup I2 people were among them being conquered. So they are no real, original, slaves. Real slaves are R1a, N1c,Ev-13 to a lesser extend. Of course most of I2 now is incorporated in Slavic people, but there is a lot of if among other populations, which is not slavic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Haplogroup I is the first humans in Europe after Neanderthals. They were no Slavs. Slaves during their expansion from Caspian sea conquered various people of Europe and Slavicized them. Haplogroup I2 people were among them being conquered. So they are no real, original, slaves. Real slaves are R1a, N1c,Ev-13 to a lesser extend. Of course most of I2 now is incorporated in Slavic people, but there is a lot of if among other populations, which is not slavic

    I’m not sure you have any idea how haplogroups work contextually. I also think you’re confusing CTS10228 with your own I2 clade and are getting defensive. The earliest R1a predated any Proto-Indo-European people and so predates any language you’re trying to attach to it(including Slavic).

    Also the fact you tried associating E-V13 as a Slavic marker while claiming I2-CTS10228 is not Slavic just shows my point. Certain clades of Z280/M458 under R1a are associated with the Slavic ethno-genesis and migration. Not all of R1a.

    There were no such thing as Slavs when I2-CTS10228 was assimilated into Balto-Slavs sometime in the late Bronze and early Iron Age. It may well have been this marker which differentiated one subset of Balto-Slavs into Proto-Slavs. The earliest surviving ancestor of all I2a1b-Din expanded with Slavs demographically. Nearly 100 percent of I2 in Slavs is CTS10228. Your clade has nothing to do with it.

    While V13/N has clades that formed and expanded with Slavs, you’re dead wrong to assume these are more characteristic of Slavic ethnogenesis than I2a-CTS10228 is. A haplo which makes up between 10-60 percent of Slavs from North-East to South-East. With majority of all of it being founder effects and bottlenecks and the diversity of which is found in Poland/Belarus/Ukraine. Same as participating R1a clades. Slavs didn’t expand from the Caspian Sea Lolol. Proto-Balto-Slavic was already locates in northeast Europe and Proto-Slavs themselves likely expanded from northwest Ukraine/southeast Poland/southwest Belarus.

    When I2 didn’t speak an indo European language, R1a* was a Siberian with no knowledge of Proto-Indo-European, let alone Slavic. There’s different clades with different ages. Your I2 is associated with western groups like Germanics/Celts. Nothing to do with CTS10228 which is mostly found in Slavs.

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    If you are keeping things this way,it will not be found in any Slav, Albanian, and even Saxon,Celt,Italian or Greek, anymore, Byzantine serfs.

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    That's not the first time,you stupid Albanian cow,is it?


    Until now I was thinking about Belgrade a lot from the time of Garick,it seems you're even.
    Unfortunately, the Russia and Greece ,along with their European and American allies promote both of you way too much in Romania
    Where is it the Albanian with Mycenaean;I want to talk to him;Nowwww!!!!.


    Where is it that stupid Norman cow?!
    Stupid Byzantines,you're like the Russians ,Westerners,and the Gipsies...

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    Arnaut,Dibran,and Pribislav/Bacchus under severe observation.
    EDIT

    The sneaking took way too long,that's why I can't make any guarantee for the Russian,American,German,Dutch,Italian,Belgian,Fren ch,Serbian,Greek ,Albanian,Bulgarian ,Jewish,Turkish,Arab,citizens.
    Last edited by Dreptul Valah; 05-07-19 at 01:33.

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    Deldeldeldeldel
    Last edited by Dreptul Valah; 05-07-19 at 08:19.

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    Haplogroup I was mesolithic hunter gatherer. It was probably in greece since it stepped foot in europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Haplogroup I was mesolithic hunter gatherer. It was probably in greece since it stepped foot in europe
    Possibly. Earlier indigenous populations are never considered.

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    In the 7th century the southern Slavs became the predominant population of the Balkan Peninsula. Gradually, they occupy the Moesia, Thrace, the Rhodopes, the Aegean Sea, some of the Aegean islands and all of Macedonia, which in the 7th and 8th centuries also began to be called Sklavinias. The southern Slavs are also settling today's Albania, the Adriatic coast of today's Greece and even the Peloponnese. Slavs are settled in Asia Minor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krum View Post
    In the 7th century the southern Slavs became the predominant population of the Balkan Peninsula. Gradually, they occupy the Moesia, Thrace, the Rhodopes, the Aegean Sea, some of the Aegean islands and all of Macedonia, which in the 7th and 8th centuries also began to be called Sklavinias. The southern Slavs are also settling today's Albania, the Adriatic coast of today's Greece and even the Peloponnese. Slavs are settled in Asia Minor.
    Yep and then they were slaughtered by Nikiphoros the I and were confined in what is now Serbia. Their genetic impact in Peloponnese was minimal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Yep and then they were slaughtered by Nikiphoros the I and were confined in what is now Serbia. Their genetic impact in Peloponnese was minimal.
    Maybe minimal in the Peloponnese. Aside from 2 well documented Slavic tribes there(Melingoi/Ezeritai). However, in the rest of Greece(unless due to bottlenecks/founder effects which is yet to be proven) it appears to have left significant impact(especially in North/North-East Greece). Slavic Y-DNA in Greece fluctuates between 10-40 percent region to region. Even the Peloponnese has about 10-20 percent(which is most probably from the Melingoi/Ezeritai). When I say bottlenecks/founder effects I mean it could be from one Slavic guy that was assimilated and whose sons had a demographic boom later as Greeks. This is yet to be proven however, and it seems Slavs impacted Greece pretty significantly in the Middle Ages, including the rest of the Balkans. The only real safe haven were isolated mountainous regions. Which is why Gheg Albanians have only between 5-10 percent of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krum View Post
    In the 7th century the southern Slavs became the predominant population of the Balkan Peninsula. Gradually, they occupy the Moesia, Thrace, the Rhodopes, the Aegean Sea, some of the Aegean islands and all of Macedonia, which in the 7th and 8th centuries also began to be called Sklavinias. The southern Slavs are also settling today's Albania, the Adriatic coast of today's Greece and even the Peloponnese. Slavs are settled in Asia Minor.
    Yes you will find plenty of j2 and e-v13 in Russians and Poles like in Bulgarians and Skopians
    What no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Maybe minimal in the Peloponnese. Aside from 2 well documented Slavic tribes there(Melingoi/Ezeritai). However, in the rest of Greece(unless due to bottlenecks/founder effects which is yet to be proven) it appears to have left significant impact(especially in North/North-East Greece). Slavic Y-DNA in Greece fluctuates between 10-40 percent region to region. Even the Peloponnese has about 10-20 percent(which is most probably from the Melingoi/Ezeritai). When I say bottlenecks/founder effects I mean it could be from one Slavic guy that was assimilated and whose sons had a demographic boom later as Greeks. This is yet to be proven however, and it seems Slavs impacted Greece pretty significantly in the Middle Ages, including the rest of the Balkans. The only real safe haven were isolated mountainous regions. Which is why Gheg Albanians have only between 5-10 percent of it.
    What's ''slavic y-dna''
    Tells us so we can laugh all together.
    Then tell us what is greek y dna so we can laugh even harder with the necessary complications of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Haplogroup I was mesolithic hunter gatherer. It was probably in greece since it stepped foot in europe
    I would say more likely it is a certainty.
    I2 is 30 000 year old, and it was the dominant yDNa linage in the Balkans and all the way to the Ukrainian steppes.
    E-v13 for comparison is half of that age, and in contrast to I2 it was associated with agricultural civilizations and trade, thus it has higher concentration along the coastal line of the Balkans and east med.
    Proto-Greeks probably arrived later with dominant lines R1b-j2, via the northern Anatolian pathway to settle first in the islands and then in northern Greece and mingle with the locals. Their first descent corresponds with the Minoan civilization, the second with the sea people raids (probably caused by climate changes due to volcanic eruption), and the third with the Dorian descent. The continuum of the Greek languages and other closely related languages, like the phrygian, is possible evidence to that hypothesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    I would say more likely it is a certainty.
    I2 is 30 000 year old, and it was the dominant yDNa linage in the Balkans and all the way to the Ukrainian steppes.
    E-v13 for comparison is half of that age, and in contrast to I2 it was associated with agricultural civilizations and trade, thus it has higher concentration along the coastal line of the Balkans and east med.
    Proto-Greeks probably arrived later with dominant lines R1b-j2, via the northern Anatolian pathway to settle first in the islands and then in northern Greece and mingle with the locals. Their first descent corresponds with the Minoan civilization, the second with the sea people raids (probably caused by climate changes due to volcanic eruption), and the third with the Dorian descent. The continuum of the Greek languages and other closely related languages, like the phrygian, is possible evidence to that hypothesis.
    more likely e v13+r1b+j2 came together

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