Albanians = Illyrian

About V13 diversity and percentage in South Albania

Not related to your comment, but im not so familiar with Serbian Y-dna so maybe you can help. I am currently researching orthodox albanians in the north, and in the Zhica charter of 1220 150 names are serbian and 54 are albanian and vlach. This is quite north of kosovo and i am wondering whether there are any surviving clades among serbians that may have come from those orthodox albanians. have you noticed any possivle candidates?

Also in the banjska charter of 1313, 444 names are serbian 117 are albanian and vlach.
Milutins hilandar charter in 1290-1300 also has around 100 serb names and 48 albanian and vlach names.

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Not related to your comment, but im not so familiar with Serbian Y-dna so maybe you can help. I am currently researching orthodox albanians in the north, and in the Zhica charter of 1220 150 names are serbian and 54 are albanian and vlach. This is quite north of kosovo and i am wondering whether there are any surviving clades among serbians that may have come from those orthodox albanians. have you noticed any possivle candidates?

There are few Serb E-Y146086's around Kraljevo. I know they seem to match well some Western Bosnian Serbs (who are Y23, these are Y37 so they are certainly E-Y146086). There is some presence of certain R-Z2705's in Stari Vlah area. I guess they must have belonged to one of various Vlach communities there. Those communities in charters are usually designated as Vlachs with a number of Romanian and Albanian names (and other non-Slavic names). Probably they were Vlachs with Albanian influences.
 
Illyrians were a group of populations/tribes with close languages.
Illyrians were not a single ethnicity. Also, Illyrians as other European speaking people were identified after their mother tongue not after their paternal lines.
Is quite clear Illyrians came and conquered people from Balkans. Is not possible that Illyrians brought E-V13 in Balkans, E-V13 is 10.000 years old.
I highly doubt that Illyrians spoke a Satem language.
There is mentioned an Illyrian language spoken in Italy. Now Italy and Satem language ?
:)
Illyrians should have spoken a Centum language.
After some Illyrians merged with Celtic people, were conquered by Dacians and Thracians, were conquered by Romans,had strong South Slavic and Greek influence, Albanians appeared.
So Albanians are closest to ancient Illyrians, but they are no longer Illyrians. I think the most pronounced Satem character came in Albanian from Dacians and Thracians, which should have spoken some BaltoSlavic languages.
 
Albanians are integrating best, as migrants in Italy and in Switzerland.
Which shows they were originally from the Galo-Celto-Roman people.
The Albanians cluster to North Italians, on Autosomal testing.So their Satem language is just derived from non-Illyrian influences.
 
Illyrians were a group of populations/tribes with close languages.
Illyrians were not a single ethnicity. Also, Illyrians as other European speaking people were identified after their mother tongue not after their paternal lines.
Is quite clear Illyrians came and conquered people from Balkans. Is not possible that Illyrians brought E-V13 in Balkans, E-V13 is 10.000 years old.
I highly doubt that Illyrians spoke a Satem language.
There is mentioned an Illyrian language spoken in Italy. Now Italy and Satem language ?
:)
Illyrians should have spoken a Centum language.
After some Illyrians merged with Celtic people, were conquered by Dacians and Thracians, were conquered by Romans,had strong South Slavic and Greek influence, Albanians appeared.
So Albanians are closest to ancient Illyrians, but they are no longer Illyrians. I think the most pronounced Satem character came in Albanian from Dacians and Thracians, which should have spoken some BaltoSlavic languages.

I have seen no illyrian text found..............I only seen personnel names
There are no illyrians, they are liburnians, dalmatians, histrians , Iapges, pannonians etc etc ...............Illyrian means similar to Scandinavian, a geographical term

some linguistics ( and I do not know their accuracy ) places proto-"illyrian" with proto-celtic and proto-italic languages north of the balkans as ONE group........but, as i said , it is speculation
 
Albanians are integrating best, as migrants in Italy and in Switzerland.
Which shows they were originally from the Galo-Celto-Roman people.
The Albanians cluster to North Italians, on Autosomal testing.So their Satem language is just derived from non-Illyrian influences.

on the PCA's I've Albanians are far enough from Northern Italians and even Toscans, and are between Southern Italians from a side, and Bulgarians & Romanians on another side, so close enough to continental Greeks (Northern Greeks?) -
 
Illyrians were a group of populations/tribes with close languages.
Illyrians were not a single ethnicity. Also, Illyrians as other European speaking people were identified after their mother tongue not after their paternal lines.
Is quite clear Illyrians came and conquered people from Balkans. Is not possible that Illyrians brought E-V13 in Balkans, E-V13 is 10.000 years old.
I highly doubt that Illyrians spoke a Satem language.
There is mentioned an Illyrian language spoken in Italy. Now Italy and Satem language ?
:)
Illyrians should have spoken a Centum language.
After some Illyrians merged with Celtic people, were conquered by Dacians and Thracians, were conquered by Romans,had strong South Slavic and Greek influence, Albanians appeared.
So Albanians are closest to ancient Illyrians, but they are no longer Illyrians. I think the most pronounced Satem character came in Albanian from Dacians and Thracians, which should have spoken some BaltoSlavic languages.

Excuse me but i insist. When Dacians conquered Illyrians?
 
Excuse me but i insist. When Dacians conquered Illyrians?

Most probable was the other way around. Dardania and Macedonia were former Tracian territories conquered by Illyrians. From Pannonian plains proto Illyrians moved toward the south into Dardania and then further south into Macedonia and Epirus.
 
Yes, I am aware of the similarities between Albanian and Aromanian. Also as I said already "Dada" and "Ghiush" means Grandmother and Grandfather in Aromanian language. This coupled with the Aromanian matches in a study of 2006 about the Aromanians in Macedonia and Albania and no matches with Albanians whatsoever, gives more likely explanation to be the Aromanian.

No, my ancestry is from the far south of today's N.Macedonia but I suspect some migrations to have taken place from South Albania in the past.

Depends on from what part of N Macedonia you hails. Manastir and Oher were once inhabited by large number of Albanians, which means southwest Macedonia.
 
I have seen no illyrian text found..............I only seen personnel names
There are no illyrians, they are liburnians, dalmatians, histrians , Iapges, pannonians etc etc ...............Illyrian means similar to Scandinavian, a geographical term

some linguistics ( and I do not know their accuracy ) places proto-"illyrian" with proto-celtic and proto-italic languages north of the balkans as ONE group........but, as i said , it is speculation

Liburnians, histrians, Dalmatians, lapges and Pannonians were all Illyrians.


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