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Thread: How to know more about this branch?

  1. #1
    Junior Member MiloshN's Avatar
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    How to know more about this branch?

    Today I got Y-DNA results. And the result is here : E-V13>Z5017>Z16988>BY155589

    What is interesting about this branch? :)

    Have a nice day.

  2. #2
    Regular Member spruithean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiloshN View Post
    Today I got Y-DNA results. And the result is here : E-V13>Z5017>Z16988>BY155589

    What is interesting about this branch? :)

    Have a nice day.
    I couldn't find anything on your terminal SNP, but I did find: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z16988/, formed 2900 years ago and it seems dispersed throughout Europe judging by YFull's data.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
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    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by MiloshN View Post
    Today I got Y-DNA results. And the result is here : E-V13>Z5017>Z16988>BY155589

    What is interesting about this branch? :)

    Have a nice day.
    We have 11 Albanians under Z16988 from highland clans, central albania, and south albania. So its a local lineage assimilated into slavic/serbian ethnos at some point in time.
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    We have 11 Albanians under Z16988 from highland clans, central albania, and south albania. So its a local lineage assimilated into slavic/serbian ethnos at some point in time.

    I would agree with what Derite said, also i would like to add that this line Z16988 besides it has clusters of Serbs/Montenegrins and Albanians, also it has brother clades found among Albanians but also Serbs with probably similar history as you.

    Congratulations on your results, where are you from in Serbia? Ah nevermind i see that you put Ras, probably meaning Rashka.

  5. #5
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Just realised your subclade is uploaded to Yfull as E-Y133830, you can see it here https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY34282/ , you are in branch together with this two Montenegrin (Danilovgrad) samples formed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 750 ybp, your brother clades are found in South Albania and France. Your next wave of relatives within Z16988 is pretty dispersed around Europe with few instances in Albanians and Serbs but with these with higher concentration and these that might interest you are Kelmendi tribals.

    So again, regarding your more distant Y-DNA origin its safe to speak about Illyrian origin.

  6. #6
    Junior Member MiloshN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    I would agree with what Derite said, also i would like to add that this line Z16988 besides it has clusters of Serbs/Montenegrins and Albanians, also it has brother clades found among Albanians but also Serbs with probably similar history as you.

    Congratulations on your results, where are you from in Serbia? Ah nevermind i see that you put Ras, probably meaning Rashka.
    Ya, Novi Pazar - Rashka

  7. #7
    Junior Member MiloshN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    We have 11 Albanians under Z16988 from highland clans, central albania, and south albania. So its a local lineage assimilated into slavic/serbian ethnos at some point in time.
    Are the Albanians (with EV13) assimilated into someone?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiloshN View Post
    Are the Albanians (with EV13) assimilated into someone?
    How do you mean?

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

  9. #9
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-P58
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1l

    Ethnic group
    Gheg Albanian-Kelmendi clan(Joined) but with supposed origin from Montenegro
    Country: United Kingdom



    In terms of Serbs this group is mainly found among the ones that hail from the Bjelopavlici clan of Montenegro. The ancestral group, BY34282, so far has been found among two Albanians from the southern regions (Skrapar and Konispol) and a French guy from northwestern France (Maine-et-Loire). As for BY155589 itself, it has been found among some Croatians, a Hungarian and an Austrian. They don't seem to be all that recently close to the Bjelopavlici though. It may be possible that the Albanian from Konispol is BY155589 based on some shared STRs with Bjelopavlici, though I'm not really sure about that. I think that this group will be found among more Albanians, would be interesting if it pops up around the area of Dukagjin considering how the Bjelopavlici claim origin from that area.

    Aren't you the Serb from Kosovo that claims origin from Bjelopavlici?
    Ydna: J-ZS241

    mtDNA: T1a1l

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

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    Congratulations!!!

  11. #11
    Junior Member MiloshN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Aren't you the Serb from Kosovo that claims origin from Bjelopavlici?
    yes, here is result for confirming...

  12. #12
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    Dear MiloshN!

    I'm EV13>Z5017>Z17107>A19238, so we have a 2900 years old common father. (CTS9320) On the FamilyTreeDNA existing a CTS9320 project with 202 members. 38 from they are Z16988+.

    2 Z16988+ but negative all known subclade (1 England and 1 Bulgaria)
    4 Z16988+ and BY4197+ (1 France, 1 Switzerland, 1 Croatia, 1 Hungary or Romania)
    4 Z16988+, BY4197+ and Z38664+ (2 Germany, 1 England, 1 Puerto Rico)
    2 Z16988+, BY4197+, BY50887+, BY70508+( 2 England)
    3 Z16988+ BY4197+ BY50887+ BY155589+ (3 Croatia)
    4 Z16988+ [DYS531=11] (1 Latvia, 1 France, 1 Moldova, 1 ?)
    1 Z16988+ [DYS531=11] Z27131+ (1 Germany)
    2 Z16988+ [DYS531=11] Z27131+ BY62310+ (1 Albania, 1 ?)
    5 Z16988+ [DYS531=11] Z27131+ BY4225+ (2 Norvegia, 1 England, 1 Germany, 1 Slovakia)
    2 Z16988+ [DYS531=11] Z27131+ BY4225+ BY182530+(2 Great-Britain)
    4 Z16988+ [DYS531=11] A11837+ (1 Albania, 1 Serbia, 1 Croatia, 1 ?)
    5 Z16988+ [DYS531=11] Z21350+ (4 Great-Britain, 1 Germany or Poland)

    From this results, your closest matches are the croatians. According to Maciamo, this bloodline is of Hallstatt Celtic origin. I think he's right.

  13. #13
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    From this results, your closest matches are the croatians. According to Maciamo, this bloodline is of Hallstatt Celtic origin. I think he's right.

    reposting

  14. #14
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Congrats, so you belong to Bjelopavlici clan. Your Clan according to their oral traditions hails from Dukagjin, North Albania. Your closest Albanian match however is from Cameri, southern Albania, tmrca approximately 1000-700ybp based on STRs (but we will know more soon enough because they have also tested with Dante).

    Next Albanian further upstream, belonging to a brother subclade, is from Skrapar. TMRCA 2300ybp as can be seen here:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY34282/

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Congrats, so you belong to Bjelopavlici clan.

    Palbardhi*

    How come we dont have any of these in project? Is there still Albanian speaking Palbardhi ? Or all whats left is Bjelopavlici ?
    Last edited by Dema; 22-06-19 at 19:17.

  16. #16
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Palbardhi*

    How come we dont have any of these in project? Is there still Albanian speaking Palbardhi ? Or all whats left is Bjelopavlici ?
    Any of which? Both samples that I mentioned are in the project.

    Clan was formed in today’s Brda region (southern Montenegro) by a family/fis that migrated out of Dukagjin (North Albanian), so no, there isn't any Albanian family today that identifies with such a clan.
    Last edited by Leka; 22-06-19 at 21:35.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Congrats, so you belong to Bjelopavlici clan. Your Clan according to their oral traditions hails from Dukagjin, North Albania. Your closest Albanian match however is from Cameri, southern Albania, tmrca approximately 1000-700ybp based on STRs (but we will know more soon enough because they have also tested with Dante).
    Is there a place to browse results obtained from tests like Dante? Or do they just upload to YFull?

  18. #18
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    nice historical material on this forum page

  19. #19
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Bjelopavlic history

    I spent quite a bit of time analyzing clans legend, and cross referencing historical facts which are found in original Turkish defters (1477 and 1485), Venetian cadaster of Skadar, documets from Dubrovnik archive,John Musachi chronicle, Massarelli, Frang Bardi, Evlija Celebi, Bolizza, Bicci, numerous historical books, to find if there are any simmilarities. My test results along with others are currently on yfull.
    Clans legends can be found in books by Sobajic, Brajovic, Cupic.
    Typical oral history is Found in Cupic's PhD work "Speech of Bjelopavlic"(1974). Cupic interviewed 84 old Filip Brajovic :
    "White Paul is the son of Leka Dukađinac, duke Leka. I know from me how many passes. It's not too many. For example, I am Jankov, Janko is Lukin, Luka Musikin, Musika Jakovov, Jakov Radonjin, Radonja Tomashev, Tomas Mirkov, Mirko Radosavov, Radosav Brajov, Brajo Djurdjev, Djurdje Pavkov, Pavko Mitrov, Mitar Pavlov, Pavle Lekin.
    Pavle came, first he came to Pastrovici. This story in little more details. The older brother was Gavrilo, Gash. He, Paul, has three more brothers. One stayed in Prizren. He was captured by the Turks and his family, they say, and still celebrates Saint Petka. And then, Siniša and Boško - Pavle's two brothers with Pavle - they went straight and as they were fleeing from the Turks through Albania, they came to Paštrovići, when it was under Balšići at that time. They got there. And they had passed some law Lekin, a strange law. That law was the famous Leke Captain's Law. There was something quite strange about that law. Some of his friends from Dubrovnik begged to be sent. And they sent it there and never brought it back. They were looking for it - it stayed there .."
    It is longer story, but it can be finished here. My family have similar number of passes.

    Bjelopavlic clan is mentioned first time in 1411 (Dubrovnik Archive). It was still time when Balsic family ruled Zeta. Brajovic narative is very precise and matches that time. By 1411 Bjeli Pave most likely was dead, and his first descendants are named by him. Brajovic belong to Mitrovic branch, as he is descendant of Mitar (Dimitry). There is one more branch of Bjelopavlic - Bubic who are descendents of Scepan (Stefan).


    DNA results on yfull are showing that common ancestor (Bjeli Pavle ?), was born around 1326. Next branch shows common ancestor was born around 1370. There are only four results at this time at yfull, and I believe that more results will just confirm these results. Therefor, DNA results are well alligned with narative and earliest historical note.

    There are some discrepency in narative and DNA facts... Based on DNA results, Gashi clan and Bjelopavlic clan are not related. It should be well noted that there was, and there is respect between these two Albanian and Serbian clans.
    Last edited by zovujadi; 07-06-20 at 09:00.

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