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Thread: Big Y 700

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    Big Y 700

    I would love to hear comments about what you all think about the outcome for Big Y-700 will be from Family Tree DNA. Most specifically, what will it tell us, and will it go back and test to find where the split for the break in earlier snps or will it only test for more downstream snps.

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    From what I've heard a few people who have their results have received a fair bit of novel variants. This of course could be important for timing estimations of various Y trees, and depending on how many of those novel variants become defining SNPs it could help refine the tree further. Big Y700 will also be looking through more of the Y-chromosome compared to Big Y and Big Y500, so it will definitely have benefits.

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    My Y700 changes for myself...................... is that my private markers went from 26 to 40 ...........nothing new ............
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-Y33791
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    My Y700 changes for myself...................... is that my private markers went from 26 to 40 ...........nothing new ............
    The Y700 is a big Test :)

    What kind of information did you get? ... and do you think that T-Z19945 has another branch? (besides CTS1848).

    Did they tell you how many T-Z19945 they found and where?

    ... too many questions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    The Y700 is a big Test :)

    What kind of information did you get? ... and do you think that T-Z19945 has another branch? (besides CTS1848).

    Did they tell you how many T-Z19945 they found and where?

    ... too many questions
    No further matches than what i had...and we will evenrually split off without snp CTS1848

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    No further matches than what i had...and we will evenrually split off without snp CTS1848
    Thanks Torzio

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    Regular Member Wheal's Avatar
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    Thank you both for your comments.

    On the two Y-700 tests that I ordered, there have been almost no changes, even in novel snps. On one, no changes at all, on the other 2 new novels. And now another question...

    Could radiation treatments change the outcome of the reads, most specifically, on ambiguous results?

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    If you want to know your final yDNA branch don't waste your time testing STRs in FTDNA's Y-11, Y-25, Y-35, Y-65, Y-111. Go directly to Big Y-700 to test your SNPs.

    In my specific case the FTDNA's Y-11, Y-25, Y-35, Y-65, Y-111 testings pointed my final estimated branch as the R-M269:



    I only knew my downstream subclades and my final branch when I test with Big Y-700:
    R-M269>R-L23>R-L51>R-P310>R-L151>R-P312>R-ZZ11>R-DF27>R-ZZ12_1>R-FGC78762>R-ZZ19_1>R-Z31644>R-BY2285>R-BY25634>R-FGC35133





    Regards :)

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    Duarte: In regards to Post #8, thanks for the that information. So Family Tree DNA Big Y-700 is the one to get. I will definitely check it out. Thanks so much for your suggestion.

    Cheers, PalermoTrapani

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    Duarte: I went to FTDNA.com and reviewed the Big Y-700 test. So if I am reading it correctly, that is a test that I must buy and do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Duarte: I went to FTDNA.com and reviewed the Big Y-700 test. So if I am reading it correctly, that is a test that I must buy and do.
    Hi Trapani. Big Y-700 is the test that you must buy ;)
    It is an expensive test, unfortunately, but it is a definitive test. The other Y tests work with STR (Short Tandem Repeat) and are more useful in genealogical DNA testing in surname DNA projects and has become the prevalent analysis method for determining genetic profiles in forensic cases. They work with repetition frequencies. A short tandem repeat (STR) in DNA occurs when a pattern of two or more nucleotides are repeated and the repeated sequences are directly adjacent to each other. An STR is also known as a microsatellite. The pattern can range in length from 2 to 16 base pairs (bp) and is typically in the non-coding intron region. A short tandem repeat polymorphism (STRP) occurs when homologous STR loci differ in the number of repeats between individuals. By identifying repeats of a specific sequence at specific locations in the genome, it is possible to create a genetic profile of an individual. In summary and greatly simplifying, STR-based DNA tests give you an estimate of your yDNA. If you are lucky enough to have many matches, the more accurate your estimate will be. I was unlucky enough to have very few matches over shorter distances and it was only possible to predict that my yDNA was R-M269. A disappointing forecast, considering that the vast majority of Midwestern Europe belongs to this haplogroup. The BIG Y-700, in addition to testing more than 111 STRs, tests the SNPs on your Y chromosome. It is an accurate, state-of-the-art test. I am part of the FTDNA Project R-DF27 and the recommendation is not to waste money on the other Y tests if your intention is to know your final yDNA. If you just want a very upstream forecast, then test the STRs. If you want to confirm your final haplogroup, do BIg Y-700.
    Cheers,
    Duarte.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Hi Trapani. Big Y-700 is the test that you must buy ;)
    It is an expensive test, unfortunately, but it is a definitive test. The other Y tests work with STR (Short Tandem Repeat) and are more useful in genealogical DNA testing in surname DNA projects and has become the prevalent analysis method for determining genetic profiles in forensic cases. They work with repetition frequencies. A short tandem repeat (STR) in DNA occurs when a pattern of two or more nucleotides are repeated and the repeated sequences are directly adjacent to each other. An STR is also known as a microsatellite. The pattern can range in length from 2 to 16 base pairs (bp) and is typically in the non-coding intron region. A short tandem repeat polymorphism (STRP) occurs when homologous STR loci differ in the number of repeats between individuals. By identifying repeats of a specific sequence at specific locations in the genome, it is possible to create a genetic profile of an individual. In summary and greatly simplifying, STR-based DNA tests give you an estimate of your yDNA. If you are lucky enough to have many matches, the more accurate your estimate will be. I was unlucky enough to have very few matches over shorter distances and it was only possible to predict that my yDNA was R-M269. A disappointing forecast, considering that the vast majority of Midwestern Europe belongs to this haplogroup. The BIG Y-700, in addition to testing more than 111 STRs, tests the SNPs on your Y chromosome. It is an accurate, state-of-the-art test. I am part of the FTDNA Project R-DF27 and the recommendation is not to waste money on the other Y tests if your intention is to know your final yDNA. If you just want a very upstream forecast, then test the STRs. If you want to confirm your final haplogroup, do BIg Y-700.
    Cheers,
    Duarte.
    Thanks. I will get around to doing this one. FTDNA seems like they have multiple test. My guess is their FamilyFInder is just like Ancestry or 23 and Me's autosomal test. They also have a Mtdna test that looks like it does something similar to what the Big &-700. Is that correct?

    Great information, thanks again. PalermoTrapani

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Thanks. I will get around to doing this one. FTDNA seems like they have multiple test. My guess is their FamilyFInder is just like Ancestry or 23 and Me's autosomal test. They also have a Mtdna test that looks like it does something similar to what the Big &-700. Is that correct?

    Great information, thanks again. PalermoTrapani
    Hi Trapani.

    FTDNA has three types of mtDNA tests, the most complete being the FMS - Full Mitochondrial Sequence, in addition to also having the auDNA test - Family Finder (Family Ancestry).

    With regard to the complete sequencing of the yDNA, I believe that the best tests on the market are the FTDNA’s Big Y-700 and the YSEQ Whole Genome Testing 2.0, IMO.

    Cheers :)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    In YFull, my dad has 780 STR results

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheal View Post
    In YFull, my dad has 780 STR results
    Yes, @Wheal.


    Big Y-700 examines 700 short tandem repeats (STR) and over 200K SNPs on the Y chromosome.

    The great problem, today, with the Big Y-700 is that for you to be able to generate the BAM file to upload to YFULL, you have to pay an additional amount for it. YSEQ has an agreement with YFULL and generates a BAM file for you at no additional cost. However, the cost of doing YSEQ Whole Genome Testing 2.0 is much higher than the BIG Y-700.

    Cheers :)

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    $379(BigY-700) + $139(mtDNA Full Seq) =518 USD (+$100 for BAM file generation)= $618 as of today (promotional)

    Yelite 2.1 (Full Genomes Corporation) - $425 (will give you mtDNA result too. FTDNA used to do this but now meticulously deletes all traces of mtdna from their BigY).

    Dante Labs x30 can be had <300 USD on promotions. Gives you all of the above + autosomal results and health reports ($$,optional) . For 25$ Yseq will align your result to Hg38 and create a list of usable files -FASTA for the mtDNA result, BAM for the Y-chromosome result that you can upload to YFULL or FGC for analysis (49$) etc.Dante have promised to create a shareable link of the Y-chr. result for easier upload to Yfull but have not kept their promise. The results are downloadable ,but the links are not shareable so one has to either upload to a cloud service or let (yseq or whoever ) temporary access to the results so they can download the necessary files for processing.

    http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/blog/?p=3209

    https://ydna-warehouse.org/statistics.html

    I am not into that technical stuff ..and there are plenty of discussions on the net. Seems like Dante's x30 is the great all-rounder (but you must opt-in to sharing your anonymized result for medical research etc-and there is no "decline" option !) ...and Full Genomes Corporation Yelite>BigY.

    FTDNA does not accept other companies' BAM files for upload and this keeps you out of their extensive matching base ...but if your result is an uncommon one you may end up with no matches at all... And then most people upload to Yfull so...

    Do some research before making your decision...and yes, doing a Y-chr. FullSeq is inevitable ...skip those STR and snp packs,waste of money.

    https://www.fullgenomes.com/

    https://us.dantelabs.com/

    30X Whole Genome Sequencing Test8 weeks - Standard USD $299.50
    with coupon DNADAY50 (Celebrate DNA DAY) - 50% OFF
    Last edited by td120; 23-04-20 at 19:26.

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    In 2017 I had a DNA test with 23andMe. My Y haplogroup result was R1b-L21. Since I had already traced my paternal line ancestry back to Ireland in the mid-18th century, that result was not much of a surprise, given the dominance of L21 in Ireland.

    I'm considering the Big Y-700 test, but I'm wondering, what extra information would it give me? From my autosomal DNA matches with distant cousins, I'm fairly confident that I have correctly identified my Y DNA ancestor back in the 18th century. He was a Catholic living modestly in a rural parish near Dublin.

    Given his location, the Irish Sea Cluster, Z255, seems like my most likely sub-clade of L21. I'm not sure I want to pay for the Big Y-500 just to confirm that, though.

    Presumably the Big Y-500 would also identify a deeper sub-clade, but what would that tell me that I couldn't already guess? My Y DNA ancestors probably crossed the English Channel in the third millenium BC when Bell Beakers replaced about 90% of the population of Britain, then crossed the Irish Sea soon after. They have probably lived in Ireland ever since.

    I'm mildly interested in knowing my deepest Y sub-clade, but if it's just a string of letters and numbers that has an estimated time of origin and some association with other surnames, then I guess I would have to be interested in that information for it's own sake?

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    No further matches than what i had...and we will evenrually split off without snp CTS1848
    Matches: Y-37: 11; Y-700: 116.
    Haplogroup: Y-37: I2-M223; Y-700: I2-M284 -> L126 -> Y4751 -> Y31616.

    Number of Y-700 matches is dependent on how many have tested from your downstream clades. I'm in Isles-Scotland-Ireland, which had massive migration to U.S., which accounts for a ton of testing.

    My private SNPs will form a new branch once others test for them.
    "I think Marija's 'kurgan hypothesis' has been magnificently vindicated by recent work." --Lord Colin Renfrew, 4/18/2018.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    i am also waiting for my big y700
    durate mentioned here that it cost money to upload
    the bam file to y full which is indeed bummer

    p.s
    but i will pay the extra money because yfull anlaysis of the bam
    is also very important
    and a person could end in an upstream branch of the branch ftdna gave him in the big y700 results
    Sefhardi, aschenazi, bulgarian
    die Überlebenden
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y62418/
    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/
    k12b ancient
    Closest:
    3.30708331
    R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietrophenotype: east med with pontic vibe

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    i am also waiting for my big y700
    durate mentioned here that it cost money to upload
    the bam file to y full which is indeed bummer

    p.s
    but i will pay the extra money because yfull anlaysis of the bam
    is also very important
    and a person could end in an upstream branch of the branch ftdna gave him in the big y700 results

    For those who may not have heard, you can still access your Family Tree VCF file for free. According to YFull, they can still use VCF files for age estimations and that there’s very little difference between the two files (Bam & VCF) in that regard. Plus, if you should later decide that you would like to upload your Bam file, YFull says they will do the analysis for free. They have a listing of what they’re able to do with VCF files on their website.

    https://www.yfull.com/

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    Thanks👍
    But from the link you gave
    I see it cost 49$ thats not free🤔
    Regards
    Adam

  22. #22
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    That’s the usual cost that YFull charges for an analysis. If you submit a VCF file for analysis and then want to later submit your Bam file, they will do that analysis for free (or for no additional charge).


    * FREE charge upgrade of .VCF to .BAM is included Big Y700

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flann Fina View Post
    That’s the usual cost that YFull charges for an analysis. If you submit a VCF file for analysis and then want to later submit your Bam file, they will do that analysis for free (or for no additional charge).
    * FREE charge upgrade of .VCF to .BAM is included Big Y700
    Ok
    So do you think i should wait for my finale big y-700 results bam file
    Or to upload a vcf file of 111 str markers
    That i saw 2 days ago that i now have. ?
    Thanks in advance for answeres


    P.s
    I think i should wait for my final big y-700 results
    And then upload the bam file to yfull
    Last edited by kingjohn; 15-12-20 at 21:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamakore View Post
    In 2017 I had a DNA test with 23andMe. My Y haplogroup result was R1b-L21. Since I had already traced my paternal line ancestry back to Ireland in the mid-18th century, that result was not much of a surprise, given the dominance of L21 in Ireland.

    I'm considering the Big Y-700 test, but I'm wondering, what extra information would it give me? From my autosomal DNA matches with distant cousins, I'm fairly confident that I have correctly identified my Y DNA ancestor back in the 18th century. He was a Catholic living modestly in a rural parish near Dublin.

    Given his location, the Irish Sea Cluster, Z255, seems like my most likely sub-clade of L21. I'm not sure I want to pay for the Big Y-500 just to confirm that, though.

    Presumably the Big Y-500 would also identify a deeper sub-clade, but what would that tell me that I couldn't already guess? My Y DNA ancestors probably crossed the English Channel in the third millenium BC when Bell Beakers replaced about 90% of the population of Britain, then crossed the Irish Sea soon after. They have probably lived in Ireland ever since.

    I'm mildly interested in knowing my deepest Y sub-clade, but if it's just a string of letters and numbers that has an estimated time of origin and some association with other surnames, then I guess I would have to be interested in that information for it's own sake?
    If you do take the Big Y, you get information like this below. It connects my family with the 3 Rathlin Island samples(Lara M. Cassidy 2015), down to a group of 8 men living today.
    Rathlin Samples:
    Rathlin1 2026BC - 1885BC M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>S461>L21>DF13>DF21
    Rathlin2 2024BC - 1741BC M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>S461>L21>DF13
    Rathlin3 1736BC - 1534BC M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>S461>L21

    Down to living men:
    M269 R1b1a1b - R-M269 is most common in western Europe.
    L23 R1b1a1b1
    L51 R1b1a1b1a - Arrived in Western Europe with steppe migrations and its main expansion was from the Lower Rhine. Single Grave Culture
    P310 R1b1a1b1a1
    L151 R1b1a1b1a1a - Corded Ware Culture. Early Corded Ware and Don Yamnaya are basically identical.
    P312 R1b1a1b1a1a2 - Match Single Grave Culture from around the Lower Rhine.
    S461 R1b1a1b1a1a2c - Insular Celtic
    L21 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1
    DF13 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a - Rathlin
    Z39589 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1
    DF49 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a
    S6154 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1
    S476 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a
    DF23 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1
    Z2961 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a
    M222 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1 - The Féini and Ulaidh and Gáilióin, i.e., the Laighin.
    FGC4077 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1b
    A725 R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1b1
    S676 A group of 8 living men,
    S679 A group of 5 of the 8 living men above.

    The notes are mostly from the Eurogenes Blog.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Ok
    So do you think i should wait for my finale big y-700 results bam file
    Or to upload a vcf file of 111 str markers
    That i saw 2 days ago that i now have. ?
    Thanks in advance for answeres
    P.s
    I think i should wait for my final big y-700 results
    And then upload the bam file to yfull

    Yes, you’ll need to wait until your final Y700 results come in from FTDNA because the VCF that YFull accepts for analysis is the Y700 VCF file. If you plan on purchasing your Bam file from FTDNA for the $99 fee, than you can forget about the Y700 VCF file. For those who don’t want to pay for their Bam File, the Y700 VCF is an option because you can still get that for free from FTDNA and submit it to YFull instead of the Bam file.

    The STR VCF file is a different file that can also be uploaded to YFull for free, if you already have an account there, but it doesn’t include all of the SNP information you need. That’s in the completed Y700 VCF file.

    Again, if you are planning on purchasing the Bam file from FTDNA, none of the above applies to you. In that case, just upload your Bam file to YFull once it’s ready at FTDNA

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