Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 56 of 56

Thread: The Genetic history of Crete

  1. #51
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    matadworf's Avatar
    Join Date
    13-08-17
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    88
    Points
    1,844
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,844, Level: 11
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 6
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Greek Messinia
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I don't know how much more clearly the authors could have put it. Those three areas show less influence from anyone. It's isolation and then drift.

    As for the "there must be Turkish" blood in Greece, Albania and other countries", bigsnake I'm sure knows better than I do, so if I go wrong, he may, of course, correct me, but this is my understanding:

    By the time of the Ottoman take over, they were Muslim, and the inhabitants were Christian of one variety or another.

    It boggles the imagination that an Ottoman family would allow their daughters to abjure their faith, turn apostate, and go marry a Christian Greek and live in that community. If a Christian Greek male wished to marry a Muslim girl, he would need to convert, be circumcised, and become part of the Ottoman community, and when they left he and his progeny would be part of the group going into exile.

    Now, I think a Christian girl could become a wife or concubine to a Turk, and could then even keep her Christian faith, but her children would then become part of the Ottoman society.

    From what I've read there was no such thing as "civil marriage"; marriages were performed by a holy man or teacher of that particular faith. A Christian and a Muslim couldn't marry without one of them converting or at least the ceremony being performed by either a Christian priest or a Muslim officiate.

    So, if anything, I think there is Balkan ancestry in Ottoman Turks, but I don't see how it could have happened the other way around, except perhaps where whole groups converted to Islam, as many Albanians did. I don't know if in that case intermarriage did occur between Albanian Muslims and Muslims from Turkey, and if it did whether they went into exile back to Turkey or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Indeed, I think I would be overlapping with Peloponnese. On 23andme, it is also where I have an affinity:
    Actually it's Mani and Tsakonia that are close to Crete autosmally. The rest of the Peloponnese is much closer to Thessaly, Epirus (actually all of mainland Greece with the exception of Eastern Macedonia and Tharace) and Southern Albania. My roots are fully in the Peloponnese and I cluster with Thessalians, Southern Albanians and/or Central Italians (Central Med) rather than those on the more Eastern end of the Med spectrum.

  2. #52
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,806
    Points
    88,933
    Level
    92
    Points: 88,933, Level: 92
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 417
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    Actually it's Mani and Tsakonia that are close to Crete autosmally. The rest of the Peloponnese is much closer to Thessaly, Epirus (actually all of mainland Greece with the exception of Eastern Macedonia and Tharace) and Southern Albania. My roots are fully in the Peloponnese and I cluster with Thessalians, Southern Albanians and/or Central Italians (Central Med) rather than those on the more Eastern end of the Med spectrum.
    South-Central Italians in Lazio fall into the cluster that is shown as Peloponnese. It bridges Tuscans and Sicily.




  3. #53
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,806
    Points
    88,933
    Level
    92
    Points: 88,933, Level: 92
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 417
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Take a look at the modern Greek samples, there is Thessaloniki. Albanians cluster with Thessaloniki too:




    The Armenoi_Crete sample seems to fall into the "Peloponnese" cluster as well.


  4. #54
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,307
    Points
    279,553
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,553, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    Actually it's Mani and Tsakonia that are close to Crete autosmally. The rest of the Peloponnese is much closer to Thessaly, Epirus (actually all of mainland Greece with the exception of Eastern Macedonia and Tharace) and Southern Albania. My roots are fully in the Peloponnese and I cluster with Thessalians, Southern Albanians and/or Central Italians (Central Med) rather than those on the more Eastern end of the Med spectrum.
    Something better about being more "West Med"?

    First of all, is there something in the paper which specifically says that? Or is it just your own results from amateur calculators? Please don't tell me that Sikeliot told you so, the Sikeliot who insisted that the Greeks had no genetic input into southern Italy, and that instead it was a massive migration of people from the Levant. :)

    If it's true I guess you should be going to Mani and Tsakonia to spend some time with the closest genetic descendants of the people who created the glory which was Greece, in addition to being such fierce fighters in defense of the Greeks of a more recent time.

    As for the people of Sicily, they have a bit of diversity. Some overlap with people of the Peloponnese, and some with the people of Crete. I wish they had included the Calabrians and the Pugliesi. Interesting that much of Crete actually extends further east toward the Levant than the Sicilians. I guess they got more of that massive wave of Levantines. :)

    The Peloponnese, from the PCA, at least, is mostly south and east of the Tuscans, more Lazio, or even more, Abruzzo, as the most "northern" point of reference? Those two stray "Tuscan" samples are a bit odd. Either a great-grandparent from further south, or perhaps the sample is from the border area with Lazio.

    @Jovialis
    Good post. Thanks also for reminding me that the Crete Armenoi sample lands in the Peloponnese. That's still my sole ancient IBD sample from MTA, even if the overall autosomal comparison is pretty distant.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  5. #55
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    19-06-19
    Posts
    10
    Points
    40
    Level
    1
    Points: 40, Level: 1
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 10
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: USA - New York



    Modern Greeks are descendants of Minoans and Mykiants. The DNA analysis of representatives of Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations proved their genetic relationship with each other, as well as with modern Greeks. It is shown that the Neolithic populations of Anatolia made the main contribution to the formation of the Minoans and Mycenaeans. The authors found in them a genetic component originating from the Caucasus and from Iran, and in the Mykene population - a small trace from Eastern Europe and Siberia.

  6. #56
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,307
    Points
    279,553
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,553, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Well, I don't know if I'd say 14%-34%? from the Slavic migrations, depending on the area, admittedly themselves mixed by the time they got to most of Greece, of course, can be called a "trace". Somebody can check the data in the paper on the genetics of the Peloponnese and this one for the precise numbers. The point remains even if I'm off a few percentage points.

    That's over and above the amount of "new" ancestry from the steppe during the Bronze Age, although that was probably mixed as well, and much smaller by comparison.

    Greece got hammered during the Slavic migrations, "helped" if one could use such a word for such a horror, by the plague, if not during the coming of the actual Greek speakers.

    What was the estimate the Greek researcher used for the similarity, on average, between Mycenaeans and modern Greeks? 75%? Some areas, in the north, obviously, would be less.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •