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Thread: a sample of ~600 shows that 71% of Saudi Arabians carry J1-M267 (J-P58 mutation)

  1. #26
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Wrong!

    Real genuine Mongols hated islam/arabs, don't know which ones you speak of

    "From the head of the Mongol army, anxious to devastate the perfidious nation of the Saracens, with the good-will support of the Christian faith (...) so that you, who are the rulers of the coasts on the other side of the sea, endeavor to deny a refuge for the Infidels, your enemies and ours, by having your subjects diligently patrol the seas.
    — Letter from Hulagu to Saint Louis."

    Just to help you out:
    Perfidious: deceitful, untrustworthy, evil etc
    Saracens: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saracen

    "Many new-born children in Italy were named after Mongol rulers, including Hulagu: names such as Can Grande ("Great Khan"), Alaone (Hulagu), Argone (Arghun), and Cassano (Ghazan) are recorded."

    Also, in terms of south Europe how many mongol looking people do you see? Very very few, almost non existant, you actually see more in finland. How many syrian/iraqi/egyptian/arab looking men do you see in South europe? A whole lot more that's for sure, check out turkey, bulgaria and greece
    Man please, just stop

    The Mongols didn't hate Islam. You're arguing that they hated Islam because of what a later Mongol (Ilkhanate) ruler said in regards to the Arabs (Saracens), whom he was at war with? Come on now. They didn't hate Islam, this is evident by the fact that 3/4 of the Mongol Khanates embraced Islam and made it the official religion since it was favoured by them. The 3 Khanates which embraced Islam were the Ilkhanate (Hulagu Khan was the Khan of this Khanate, though it was Buddhist under his rule), Golden Horde and Chagatai Khanate. The only Khanate which didn't embrace Islam was the Yuan dynasty.
    You should also know that Genghis Khan himself had Muslim advisers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...l_Empire#Islam

    The Turks and Mongols aren't the same thing. The original Turkic speakers were somewhat East Asian looking, but with their expansion across Western Asia they absorbed and mixed with the local inhabitants, hence the non-Asiatic appearance of many modern day Turks. The Turks and Mongols left no noticeable genetic input in Southern Europe so there isn't any reason to why they would look Asiatic. Arabs/Semites had no genetic input there either. If you really want to prove that there was genetic input from Arabs, show me Y-DNA or auDNA evidence. Don't talk about appearances, something which can often mean nothing (especially in the Balkans).
    Ydna: J-ZS241

    mtDNA: T1a1l

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    I didn't say it was just "rape", they had to stay there after killing the men and have several women slaves to themselves and have many kids. There is no way they managed to change the language of North African countries by just "raping women" and running off, they had to settle there and take the women for themselves, take peoples money, their land etc.
    How you imagine it was done does not matter. You are wrong for claiming that it happened so much that it transformed the Y-DNA of Central Asian populations, which it did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Only very few, an extensive test needs to be done in that region to find out more.
    So far, from Ancient DNA:
    non-Arab J1 in Central Asia & Caucasus: "very few".
    Arabic J1 in Central Asia & Caucasus: ZERO.


    And here are some more than "very few" modern J1 NGS results from YFull (Turkey included in Central Asia & Caucasus):


    Branch name Age Majority-Muslim Central Asia & Caucasus countries/regions Majority-Arabic countries
    J-Y5353 6300 35 0
    J-S11710 4800 12 0
    J-S2872 4800 35 0
    J-ZS5658 4600 14 0
    J-FGC4745 5600 0 48
    J-BY74 4600 0 24
    J-FGC11 4600 8 >1200
    J-Z18206 4100 0 32

    So, over the last 4500 years, ~93% of Central Asian J1 NGS results have ZERO relatives among the thousands of NGS tested Arabs. Now either bring us dozens & hundreds of Central Asian & Caucasus J1 relating to Arabs in the last 1500 years, or stop the spewing non-sense like a repetitive nazi parrot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Man please, just stop
    The Mongols didn't hate Islam. You're arguing that they hated Islam because of what a later Mongol (Ilkhanate) ruler said in regards to the Arabs (Saracens), whom he was at war with? Come on now. They didn't hate Islam, this is evident by the fact that 3/4 of the Mongol Khanates embraced Islam and made it the official religion since it was favoured by them. The 3 Khanates which embraced Islam were the Ilkhanate (Hulagu Khan was the Khan of this Khanate, though it was Buddhist under his rule), Golden Horde and Chagatai Khanate. The only Khanate which didn't embrace Islam was the Yuan dynasty.
    You should also know that Genghis Khan himself had Muslim advisers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...l_Empire#Islam
    The Turks and Mongols aren't the same thing. The original Turkic speakers were somewhat East Asian looking, but with their expansion across Western Asia they absorbed and mixed with the local inhabitants, hence the non-Asiatic appearance of many modern day Turks. The Turks and Mongols left no noticeable genetic input in Southern Europe so there isn't any reason to why they would look Asiatic. Arabs/Semites had no genetic input there either. If you really want to prove that there was genetic input from Arabs, show me Y-DNA or auDNA evidence. Don't talk about appearances, something which can often mean nothing (especially in the Balkans).
    Are you serious right now? Read the quote, it sounds like mongols had a problem with Islam for a long time, someone doesn't just say what the leader of the mongols did out of the blue randomly one day. Also, read this

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byza...ongol_alliance

    And yes TURKIC people are probably a mix of middle eastern and mongol but middle East would have had arab input from hundreds of years of complete control and conquest, turks and turcs are not the same thing.

    History tells us that invading armies leave genetic input, how much depends on the people, whether they can flee to the suburbs or how tolerant they can be. The romans left genetic input everywhere, arabs left genetic input into all of North Africa and even spain/portugal, there is absolutely NO WAY they didn't leave anything in Middle East, NONE, you cannot be this deluded. We are talking about a time with small populations meaning it was a lot easier to change the dna of a "nation" early on

    As for balkans, the slavs left genetic input all the way down to Greece, Bulgaria etc and they weren't even a big empire or massive army. What makes you think the osmans left nothing behind in South Europe with much bigger armies and far more wars, whether you don't think they didn't have Arab father lines like I think you cannot deny genetic input from so many years of conquest, so many men dying, so many people fleeing etc.

    For me, most J1, T1a and a few sub clades of e1a/e1b was added to byzantine area from osman conquest, until you can tell me which haplogroups they spread but so far all you have done is deny all input even into middle East from arabs which is complete delusion. And yes I believe south europe would look more "white" today if there was no osman conquest, just not as blonde or ginger like North Europe. There are too many middle eastern looking people in South europe for me to believe the osmans were mongols, they were 100% middle eastern with some Arab father ancestors. Even though mongols had wars in anatolia just look at Turkey today, most of them look like middle eastern people, none look like mongols because mongols time there was short lived whereas osman wasn't

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mong...ns_of_Anatolia

    Anyway, can you give me some numbers for Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq and other Arab league nations. I would be interested to see what their haplogroups are

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Are you serious right now? Read the quote, it sounds like mongols had a problem with Islam for a long time, someone doesn't just say what the leader of the mongols did out of the blue randomly one day. Also, read this

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byza...ongol_alliance

    And yes TURKIC people are probably a mix of middle eastern and mongol but middle East would have had arab input from hundreds of years of complete control and conquest, turks and turcs are not the same thing.

    History tells us that invading armies leave genetic input, how much depends on the people, whether they can flee to the suburbs or how tolerant they can be. The romans left genetic input everywhere, arabs left genetic input into all of North Africa and even spain/portugal, there is absolutely NO WAY they didn't leave anything in Middle East, NONE, you cannot be this deluded. We are talking about a time with small populations meaning it was a lot easier to change the dna of a "nation" early on

    As for balkans, the slavs left genetic input all the way down to Greece, Bulgaria etc and they weren't even a big empire or massive army. What makes you think the osmans left nothing behind in South Europe with much bigger armies and far more wars, whether you don't think they didn't have Arab father lines like I think you cannot deny genetic input from so many years of conquest, so many men dying, so many people fleeing etc.

    For me, most J1, T1a and a few sub clades of e1a/e1b was added to byzantine area from osman conquest, until you can tell me which haplogroups they spread but so far all you have done is deny all input even into middle East from arabs which is complete delusion. And yes I believe south europe would look more "white" today if there was no osman conquest, just not as blonde or ginger like North Europe. There are too many middle eastern looking people in South europe for me to believe the osmans were mongols, they were 100% middle eastern with some Arab father ancestors. Even though mongols had wars in anatolia just look at Turkey today, most of them look like middle eastern people, none look like mongols because mongols time there was short lived whereas osman wasn't

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mong...ns_of_Anatolia

    Anyway, can you give me some numbers for Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq and other Arab league nations. I would be interested to see what their haplogroups are
    I can't be asked to deal with you. The evidence has been provided for you, if you're smart enough you'll be able to see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    I can't be asked to deal with you. The evidence has been provided for you, if you're smart enough you'll be able to see it.
    Ok.

    J2a-m67 is also found in Arab lands so maybe some of that would have been spread with Islamic conquests too

    These as well:

    J2a1-F3133 is found in Anatolia, Syria, Iran, Central Asia and Saudi Arabia

    J2a1-PF5169 is a rare subclade that has been found in Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, southern Germany and England

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Ok.

    J2a-m67 is also found in Arab lands so maybe some of that would have been spread with Islamic conquests too

    These as well:

    J2a1-F3133 is found in Anatolia, Syria, Iran, Central Asia and Saudi Arabia

    J2a1-PF5169 is a rare subclade that has been found in Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, southern Germany and England
    You do realise that these clades have TMRCAs of over 9,000 years, right?

    Create a new thread if you're going to carry on talking about this, this thread has been completely derailed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    You do realise that these clades have TMRCAs of over 9,000 years, right?
    Create a new thread if you're going to carry on talking about this, this thread has been completely derailed
    Have none of these been found in middle east though, like at all? I don't believe that

    Also j2b m205 definitely seems from osman conquest, it seems to have broken into cyprus, serbia (in particular close to the borders of Hungary where many wars took place) and bosnia/croatia at a fair percentage and seems lacking elsewhere in Europe. Probably from a few of their many soldiers who were recruited from all sorts of Middle Eastern backgrounds

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Have none of these been found in middle east though, like at all? I don't believe that

    Also j2b m205 definitely seems from osman conquest, it seems to have broken into cyprus, serbia (in particular close to the borders of Hungary where many wars took place) and bosnia/croatia at a fair percentage and seems lacking elsewhere in Europe. Probably from a few of their many soldiers who were recruited from all sorts of Middle Eastern backgrounds
    Well yes, but it means nothing if they share a TMRCA of over 3,000 years with the Middle Eastern samples. And this is the case for most of the samples.

    And how is J-M205 in Europe definitely a result of Ottoman conquest, any evidence to back up your statement? The Serbian J-M205 samples fall under Y22059 for the most part, the connection between this cluster and the Middle Eastern ones is 5,000 years old judging by Yfull. So already your Medieval expansion theory seems very unlikely. As for location, most these Serbs are from Bosnia or Krajina as far as I know. Many of them also seem to have Montenegrin origin from the Krici clan which was originally a Vlach clan. There are also 2 Albanians (from Kosovo and Malesia e Madhe) that are under Y22059 and are distant from the Serbs and other South Slavs, so they don't have any recent relation. Their relation seems to be at least 1,000 years old.

    Despite the distant relation between Y22059 and the Middle Eastern clans, we can assume that it arrived to the Balkans from the Middle East based on the distribution of other M205 clades. However, an arrival during the Ottoman conquest makes very little sense. It far more likely that it arrived during the Roman or Byzantine times and that they originally spoke a Central Semitic language (perhaps belonging to the Canaanite branch). They were most probably Latin speaking when they arrived in the Balkans and were then assimilated by locals and then Slavs.

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    I would advice to ignore this TR0LL ShpataeMadhe, guy has mental issues. Also by getting 5-6 negatives per reply its obvious others are realizing this also.
    I have read few of his posts before, its not worth to debate with someone who has such a low knowledge and who is filled with various propagandas and conspiracy theories. He is just confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    I would advice to ignore this TR0LL ShpataeMadhe, guy has mental issues. Also by getting 5-6 negatives per reply its obvious others are realizing this also.
    I have read few of his posts before, its not worth to debate with someone who has such a low knowledge and who is filled with various propagandas and conspiracy theories. He is just confused.
    Mental issues as in I want to find out why so many middle eastern looking people in South Europe, ok. Have you ever been to Bulgaria before? Go visit sometime

    Are you another one of those deluded people who think the arabs did nothing in the middle east, they just snapped their fingers and magically everyone started speaking the same language. For some dumb ass reason they were only interested in sex when in North Africa and Spain/Portugal according to you.
    Read some real history and try to understand what happened in the past

    A lot of the "smaller" sub clades you see in South Europe today are from osman conquest, they set up garrisons all over the place

    Explain this amount of j1 in Serbs I think, can't read the language but I think it is serbian dna project. Bear in mind that the ratio doesn't make sense for that much J1 to be pre osman conquest because they have only 1% r1b and not enough e1b or j2b to explain the ratio. Not to mention the graph doesn't say which j2b or e1b they have, do you have the full data?

    http://i.imgur.com/8p5XcVn.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Explain this amount of j1 in Serbs I think, can't read the language but I think it is serbian dna project. Bear in mind that the ratio doesn't make sense for that much J1 to be pre osman conquest because they have only 1% r1b and not enough e1b or j2b to explain the ratio. Not to mention the graph doesn't say which j2b or e1b they have, do you have the full data?

    http://i.imgur.com/8p5XcVn.png
    If you don't know what it is or what it shows then don't post. The graph shows the Y-DNA percentages of Serbs from Bosnia, it's from 2016 and the sample size is only 97 so it isn't very accurate. More recent results show that Serbs from Bosnia have around 2-3% R1b and even less J1. Serbs as a whole have around 6.5% R1b. Ratios mean little to nothing, stop typing nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    If you don't know what it is or what it shows then don't post. The graph shows the Y-DNA percentages of Serbs from Bosnia, it's from 2016 and the sample size is only 97 so it isn't very accurate. More recent results show that Serbs from Bosnia have around 2-3% R1b and even less J1. Serbs as a whole have around 6.5% R1b. Ratios mean little to nothing, stop typing nonsense.
    The j1 ratio is still too high, compare it to people around them with high r1b and low j1. Why would ratio mean nothing and how does data being from 2016 mean it is innacurate? That my friend, is utter nonsense

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    The j1 ratio is still too high, compare it to people around them with high r1b and low j1. Why would ratio mean nothing and how does data being from 2016 mean it is innacurate? That my friend, is utter nonsense
    Reasoning with you is pointless

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    ...................
    You really know zilch about genetics dude. Please, take a seat and think about all the precious time you wasted. Go get a DNA test. I will laugh if you get J1. Using your stunted logic, you may just commit suicide at the idea. Kelmendasi knows a world more about genetics than you. Its like a high school dropout arguing with a college grad on the importance of education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Mental issues


    Because you were spamming this thread with lots of disinformations and lies about J2-M205.


    Also most of stuff that Kelmendasi wrote about J2-M205 are disinformations or simply outdated theories that are discarded these days.

    I wont answer to any of you because as its obvious this is J1 section and not J2 section. It would be direct spam and i would ask few of you Albanians that like to write like that to consider your behavior and start to behave more mature.

    I opened J2-M205 thread in Eupedia and you are free to write anything there or ask questions, but dont spam J1 thread with J2b out of a sky for no reason.
    Or best of all would be if you guys would not mention J2-M205 at all.


    @ShpataEmadhe, now please tell me that you are not tested at all?? Also i havent seen your picture in classification thread since you like to comment so much on other people look?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    You really know zilch about genetics dude. Please, take a seat and think about all the precious time you wasted. Go get a DNA test. I will laugh if you get J1. Using your stunted logic, you may just commit suicide at the idea. Kelmendasi knows a world more about genetics than you. Its like a high school dropout arguing with a college grad on the importance of education.
    Chances of me being J1 are almost impossible since my grandad was blonde

    If I was J1 though I definitely wouldn't spread it in albania, I'd have a british or american wife instead since there are a lot more of them left whereas albanian population has been endangered for a very long time

    Now stop going off topic and tell me which sub clades the arabs spread into the middle East from 650, since I know zilch about genetics and you know a lot more
    Last edited by ShpataEMadhe; 21-10-19 at 18:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTD View Post
    it's more common among Tribal Arabians areas (reaches 90+%) , and less in the coast areas and holy lands in western Arabia because of Hajj (pilgrimage) and people coming from all over the world and some of them stay and don't go back home
    here's a picture of an old man his grand Son is carrying the J1-M267 > J-P58 > J-l858 > FGC1696 > FGC1713 Sheikh of "Mutair" tribe
    here's the study's paper in English for those interested in reading it
    https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link...5-870696768a94

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Chances of me being J1 are almost impossible since my grandad was blonde
    This sums up your level of intelligence and understanding pretty well....

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    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Chances of me being J1 are almost impossible since my grandad was blonde

    If I was J1 though I definitely wouldn't spread it in albania, I'd have a british or american wife instead

    Now stop going off topic and tell me which sub clades the arabs spread into the middle East from 650 since I know zilch about genetics and you know a lot more

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.” ~Billy Madison.

    jokes aside, you just proved you are absolutely clueless. Get a DNA test I dare you.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.” ~Billy Madison.

    jokes aside, you just proved you are absolutely clueless. Get a DNA test I dare you.
    I'm not a big fan of needles or hospitals so I usually avoid blood tests but I'll get it before I have kids or something like that

  21. #46
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-P58
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    T1a1l

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    Gheg Albanian-Kelmendi clan(Joined) but with supposed origin from Montenegro
    Country: United Kingdom



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    I'm not a big fan of needles or hospitals so I usually avoid blood tests but I'll get it before I have kids or something like that
    You're joking aren't you....

    DNA tests don't involve needles or hospitals lol, you either spit in a tube or swab the inside of your cheek. Anyways, I don't think you'll ever test, you're too insecure.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    You're joking aren't you....

    DNA tests don't involve needles or hospitals lol, you either spit in a tube or swab the inside of your cheek. Anyways, I don't think you'll ever test, you're too insecure.
    Like I said before I think about having kids. Besides, I don't have any spare cash lying around so unless I rob a bank or start cooking meth the test ain't happening anytime soon

  23. #48
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    Dibran's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
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    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Like I said before I think about having kids. Besides, I don't have any spare cash lying around so unless I rob a bank or start cooking meth the test ain't happening anytime soon
    You must really be poor if you would have to cook meth to afford a 50-80 dollar Y-DNA test. Stop t-rolling and bugger off.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    You must really be poor if you would have to cook meth to afford a 50-80 dollar Y-DNA test. Stop t-rolling and bugger off.
    That is some poor logic you got there buddy

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