Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: I8215 and I8206 - ancient Greek and ancient Gaul from Empuries colony

  1. #1
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,548
    Points
    62,907
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,907, Level: 77
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 26.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    I8215 and I8206 - ancient Greek and ancient Gaul from Empuries colony

    DNA of ancient Greek settler from Empuries colony, similarity map:

    https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map...42.1370/3.1761



    Gallic slave (probably, could also be a trader etc.) from Empuries:



    This Gaul has high "French" and "North Atlantic" in Eurogenes K36.

    Y-DNA haplogroup of I8206 (Gaul in Empuries) was R1b-U152>L2.

  2. #2
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,548
    Points
    62,907
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,907, Level: 77
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 26.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I8215 Empuries Greek settler - kit number FM5677291

    I8206 South Gaul R1b-U152 - kit number LR7149284

    That Gaul was very "northern", which gives support to my hypothesis that modern Central French people have Roman/Italian admixture.

  3. #3
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,548
    Points
    62,907
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,907, Level: 77
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 26.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Eurogenes K15 of this Gaul from Empuries - I8206 - is a bit noisy (or maybe it is DNA damage?):

    Population
    North_Sea 36.88 Pct
    Atlantic 22.88 Pct
    Baltic 10.42 Pct
    Eastern_Euro 7.77 Pct
    West_Med 11.55 Pct
    West_Asian 2.82 Pct
    East_Med 0.86 Pct
    Red_Sea -
    South_Asian 4.66 Pct
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian 0.34 Pct
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 1.21 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan 0.61 Pct

    But after removing South Asian, Oceanian and SSA noise and extrapolating to 100%, we get this:

    Population
    North_Sea 39.44
    Atlantic 24.47
    Baltic 11.14
    Eastern_Euro 8.31
    West_Med 12.35
    West_Asian 3.02
    East_Med 0.92
    Red_Sea 0
    South_Asian 0
    Southeast_Asian 0
    Siberian 0.36
    Amerindian 0
    Oceanian 0
    Northeast_African 0
    Sub-Saharan 0

    Basically like modern Scottish and Irish: https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm



    Well, maybe it was some Insular Celt captured by Pytheas of Massalia? Who knows...

    Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas#Voyage_to_Britain

    But his Y-DNA is R1b-U152 (not Insular R1b-L21) which suggests a continental Celt.

    =====

    Check also this map: https://i.redd.it/y3akpsjso6gz.jpg

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...es_of_western/

    "Volcae Tectosages" and "Volcae Arecomici" were Gauls?:


  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    246
    Points
    5,110
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,110, Level: 21
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 440
    Overall activity: 20.0%


    Country: Uruguay



    the Gaulish dude don't score italian in eurogenes k36 as opposed to modern french people
    i wonder from where in gaul he was brought to empuries
    i will try to figure out .....

    petreski do you know from where this gaulish came ?

    p.s
    thanks for sharing those kits
    Last edited by kingjohn; 30-06-19 at 21:23.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    361
    Points
    3,610
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,610, Level: 17
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 240
    Overall activity: 78.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2-Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Eurogenes K15 of this Gaul from Empuries - I8206 - is a bit noisy (or maybe it is DNA damage?):

    Population
    North_Sea 36.88 Pct
    Atlantic 22.88 Pct
    Baltic 10.42 Pct
    Eastern_Euro 7.77 Pct
    West_Med 11.55 Pct
    West_Asian 2.82 Pct
    East_Med 0.86 Pct
    Red_Sea -
    South_Asian 4.66 Pct
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian 0.34 Pct
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 1.21 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan 0.61 Pct

    But after removing South Asian, Oceanian and SSA noise and extrapolating to 100%, we get this:

    Population
    North_Sea 39.44
    Atlantic 24.47
    Baltic 11.14
    Eastern_Euro 8.31
    West_Med 12.35
    West_Asian 3.02
    East_Med 0.92
    Red_Sea 0
    South_Asian 0
    Southeast_Asian 0
    Siberian 0.36
    Amerindian 0
    Oceanian 0
    Northeast_African 0
    Sub-Saharan 0

    Basically like modern Scottish and Irish: https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm



    Well, maybe it was some Insular Celt captured by Pytheas of Massalia? Who knows...

    Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas#Voyage_to_Britain

    But his Y-DNA is R1b-U152 (not Insular R1b-L21) which suggests a continental Celt.

    =====

    Check also this map: https://i.redd.it/y3akpsjso6gz.jpg

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...es_of_western/

    "Volcae Tectosages" and "Volcae Arecomici" were Gauls?:

    Do you have the easter europe...balkan part of the bottom map ?
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

  6. #6
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,382
    Points
    38,681
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,681, Level: 60
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Eurogenes K15 of this Gaul from Empuries - I8206 - is a bit noisy (or maybe it is DNA damage?):

    Population
    North_Sea 36.88 Pct
    Atlantic 22.88 Pct
    Baltic 10.42 Pct
    Eastern_Euro 7.77 Pct
    West_Med 11.55 Pct
    West_Asian 2.82 Pct
    East_Med 0.86 Pct
    Red_Sea -
    South_Asian 4.66 Pct
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian 0.34 Pct
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 1.21 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan 0.61 Pct

    But after removing South Asian, Oceanian and SSA noise and extrapolating to 100%, we get this:

    Population
    North_Sea 39.44
    Atlantic 24.47
    Baltic 11.14
    Eastern_Euro 8.31
    West_Med 12.35
    West_Asian 3.02
    East_Med 0.92
    Red_Sea 0
    South_Asian 0
    Southeast_Asian 0
    Siberian 0.36
    Amerindian 0
    Oceanian 0
    Northeast_African 0
    Sub-Saharan 0

    Basically like modern Scottish and Irish: https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm



    Well, maybe it was some Insular Celt captured by Pytheas of Massalia? Who knows...

    Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas#Voyage_to_Britain

    But his Y-DNA is R1b-U152 (not Insular R1b-L21) which suggests a continental Celt.

    =====

    Check also this map: https://i.redd.it/y3akpsjso6gz.jpg

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...es_of_western/

    "Volcae Tectosages" and "Volcae Arecomici" were Gauls?:

    I think Nemeti were Celts, and not Germanics: it's only an administrative Roman consideration.
    like in Aquitania, some tribes were Aquitanians or Vascones, otehrs were Celts - administrative namings.
    just a point.

  7. #7
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,382
    Points
    38,681
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,681, Level: 60
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    BTW, where can we find the archeologic considerations leading to the ethnic identification of these two persons? Greek and Gaul?

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ralphie Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-10-16
    Posts
    71
    Points
    2,682
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,682, Level: 14
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 68
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a-Y18331-Y66192

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    The ancient Greek in the similarity map accords well with the Mycenaean study and another study that shows Aegean Greek islanders are closer to Sicilians and southern Italians than mainland Greeks, who are part of the same “Mediterranean continuum” but shifted more toward the Balkans. But mainland Greeks also appear to be relatively close to the ancient Greek in the map. Archaic and classical Greeks may not have been much different than Mycenaeans, as there probably were no invasions that changed Greeks’ genetic makeup in any significant way.

  9. #9
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    BTW, where can we find the archeologic considerations leading to the ethnic identification of these two persons? Greek and Gaul?
    I’m not home so it’s difficult for me to post a link right now but it’s in the supplement to the last Olalde et al paper, the March 2019 one.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  10. #10
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,382
    Points
    38,681
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,681, Level: 60
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm late, but thanks, Angela

  11. #11
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    368
    Points
    6,010
    Level
    22
    Points: 6,010, Level: 22
    Level completed: 92%, Points required for next Level: 40
    Overall activity: 10.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Lots of trade between the Celts and Massaliotes. Massalia coins have been found in England and also served as the inspiration for Celtic coins. Celtic coins also carried Greek inscriptions.

  12. #12
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,382
    Points
    38,681
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,681, Level: 60
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    It appears that this "Gaul" is rather a Celtiberian; whatever his Y-haplo he's very close to modern Celts and N-W Germanics!

    @Tomenable: concerning modern Central and Southern France, the seemingly less 'celtic' input is caused as well by post-Gaul Roman input (plus some N-E Germanics input like Burgundians) as by pre-Celtic substrata populations -

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •