Are there any other R1b M269 around here

bigsnake49

Regular Member
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Ethnic group
Thracian
Y-DNA haplogroup
R-PF7558 (LDNA)
mtDNA haplogroup
U5a1b
I tested with livingdna.com and they categorized me as M269, no further subclade. Any other "ancients"?
 
Hello Bigsnake.
You can see the R-M269 matches in the Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Haplotree - FTDNA (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R). Haplotree is public.
You expand the tree in the following sequence:
R>R-M207>R-M173>R-M420>R-M343>R-L754>R-L389>R-P297>R-M269.
On the R-M269 line you click on the three vertical dots that appear at right side and select "Country Report". A window will open with all countries and their flags and number of participants of the R-M269 project by country and also the grand total.
In my case I can expand my tree to R-P310 haplogroup because that is the deepest haplogroup I know of from my haplotree. To go deeper I have to do new tests. I am awaiting the arrival of my new FTDNA Y-DNA Kit to know more:
In my case I'm expanding as follows:
R>R-M207>R-M173>R-M420>R-M343>R-L754>R-L389>R-P297>R-M269>R-L23>R-L51>R-P310.
I hope that this can help you someway. Hugs.
 
I tested with livingdna.com and they categorized me as M269, no further subclade. Any other "ancients"?

Have you run your raw data through Morley's predictor?

Spruithean's suggestion is excellent. Upload the raw data from your autosomal DNA result at the following site:

https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal


You will have a very accurate prediction of your haplogroup. As an example, I post my result:

sbl2pTQ.png

Once you have your "deep haplogroup" prediction, go to site https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp to see the pedigree.

Here is my example:

WoJ7FrU.png


YG1q7cj.png


Hugs.
 
To do so bigsnake49 has to download the list of positive Y-snps from Livingdna and modify the list to a type Morley's predictor would accept(otherwise will return messages like"no-call"etc.)

So download the file,open it in WordPad and add a space and + after every line. Should look like:

M207 +
..
M173 +
...
M343/PF6242 +
etc.
...then copy/paste in the predictor window...select "Full Genomes Format" ..CAPTCHA...consent etc. Wonder what will report...

FTDNA R1b-Basal subclades Public Results:
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/dna-results

R1b All subclades(Public results)
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/dna-results

When navigating the results chart, type two or three extra zero's in the "Page size" window and all results will appear as one long list(the opposite is very annoying).

Check out the maps...actually ,start with them.
 
I tested with livingdna.com and they categorized me as M269, no further subclade. Any other "ancients"?

I see your ancestry is Greek Thracian. My paternal line is also from Thrace (Eastern Romelia) and I am R-M269>R-Z2103>R-Y155609. You can find me on YFull and the FTDNA R1b projects.

It's a shame you don't know your subclade. Are you planning to test further?
 
I see your ancestry is Greek Thracian. My paternal line is also from Thrace (Eastern Romelia) and I am R-M269>R-Z2103>R-Y155609. You can find me on YFull and the FTDNA R1b projects.

It's a shame you don't know your subclade. Are you planning to test further?

I have no plan to test my Y-DNA further. Do you have an autosomal kit on FTDNA or Gedmatch? I have a few Greek matches on FTDNA. Most of my matches are on Ancestry.com and Myheritage.com.
 
There is a possibility then that you aren't basal R-M269, perhaps indeed R-L23?
Perhaps but I would actually believe LivingDNA before Morley's because they are testing Y-DNA instead of using autosomal results.
 
Perhaps but I would actually believe LivingDNA before Morley's because they are testing Y-DNA instead of using autosomal results.

Hello bigsnake49

You said you took the autosomal test on MyHeritage. This company tests several Y chromosome SNPs. Just unzip the excel spreadsheet from the .zip (raw data) file and at the end of the excel spreadsheet unziped you will see that several Y chromosome SNPs have been tested.
You can try do the test manually. Look at this example of mine through messages exchanged in another thread with the member Regio X and see that, precisely, I was able (and you can too) to determine that my basal haplogroup is R-P310.

Big hug :)

[FONT=&quot]You're welcome! :)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The good calls are the homozygous. Results like "--" and "TC" may be ignored.

As for U106 (Build 37 position 8796078), well, not sure what you mean, but if your Raw Data shows your genotype for it is "CC", then you're confirmed "negative" (U106-), meaning you're NOT R1b-U106. The odds are you belong to R1b-P312, but just further tests to be sure.

There are already tools for it, but I took advantage of a sw I developed time ago and easily created a list to help those men who tested only in MyHeritage and wanna clues about the Y haplogroup to which they belong.

I'll consider firstly just the most common haplogroups in Europe: R1b, R1a, I, J, E, G, T...

The equivalences may be checked in ISOGG 2019 Y-DNA trees:
https://isogg.org/tree/

Subgroup name --->
SNP / Build 37 Number / Derived allele (needed to be positive)

[/FONT]---------------------------------------------[FONT=&quot]

R1b --->
PF6255 : 14273103 : G
YSC0000075 : 7960019 : A
L506 : 21995972 : A
CTS2134 : 14193384 : A

R1b1a1b1a1 --->
P310 : 18907236 : C
(Duarte, P310 is an equivalent of L52, not of L151)

R1b1a1b1a1a1 --->
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]U106 : 8796078 : T

[FONT=&quot]---------------------------------------------

R1a --->
L62 : 17891241 : G
L146 : 23473201 : A

---------------------------------------------

I --->
PF3649 : 8046731 : C
CTS2514 : 14337364 : C
M258 : 15023364 : C

I1 --->
L80 : 14640715 : G
Z2840 : 19563894 : C

I2a1 --->
L460 : 7879415 : C

---------------------------------------------

J1a2a1a2 --->
P58 : 14486667 : C[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]J2 --->
M172 : 14969634 : G

J2a1 --->
CTS7683 : 17614366 : A

J2a1a --->
F4326 : 23021978 : G

J2b2a --->
M241 : 15018459 : A
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]---------------------------------------------

E1b1 --->
M5404 : 7736744 : A
L492 : 15541126 : T
L613 : 9448625 : A
CTS6333 : 16824270 : C

E1b1b1b2a1a1 --->
L29 : 16936081 : T

---------------------------------------------

G --->
PF2952 : 14577177 : A
U21 : 15204710 : C

---------------------------------------------

T --->
M272 : 22738775 : G

T1a2 --->
L131 : 19372808 : T

---------------------------------------------

Q --->[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]F1237.1 : 8479245 : G
M242 : 15018582 : T

---------------------------------------------

N --->
F3373 : 22921768 : A

---------------------------------------------

L --->
M185 : 14904859 : T

--------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------

OTHERS

R : Y472 : 6868118 : A
R : YSC0000287 : 16615413 : T
R : Y506 : 21219443 : G
R1 : P225 : 15590342 : T
R1 : YSC0000288 : 16742224 : G
R1 : P238 : 7771131 : A
R1 : P233 : 21166358 : G
R1 : M781 : 21917832 : C

R1b1 : PF6271 : 23984056 : A
R1b1 : YSC0000224 : 21558298 : T
R1b1a1 : PF6498 : 21312064 : A
R1b1a1 : L502 : 19020340 : C
R1b1a1b : PF6485 : 18719565 : C
R1b1a1b : YSC0000225 : 21784286 : A
R1b1a1b : L483 : 8233186 : T
R1b1a1b : PF6265 : 21554468 : A
R1b1a1b : CTS329 : 2897433 : G
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2a1 : M467 : 16839499 : A
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1 : L47 : 22178569 : A
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1a1a : L46 : 19077409 : G
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1a1a : L525 : 14053205 : T
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1a1a1 : L237 : 15744642 : A
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1a1a1 : L164 : 15701859 : A
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1a1a1 : L45 : 15116138 : G
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1a1a1a : L493 : 15800326 : G
R1b1a1b1a1a2a1a1a1 : Z278 : 18167479 : G
R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1 : M222 : 14902414 : A
R1b1a1b1a1a2d : L238 : 21253443 : G

I1a1a1a1a2a1 : M72 : 21894407 : G

I2a1a1a : M26 : 21865821 : A
I2a1b : L35 : 22725379 : A
I2a1b1 : P221 : 8353707 : A
I2a1b1a1a1a : L137.1 : 9791250 : A
I2a1b2a : L38 : 15668070 : G
I2a1b2a : L39 : 16199051 : C

J2a1a1a2a2b : M322 : 15469740 : A

E : P169 : 22918577 : T
E : P171 : 23443971 : T
E : P173 : 6995523 : G
E : L511 : 23059591 : A
E : PF1788 : 19500107 : T
E : M5406 : 7913358 : A
E (Notes) : M107 : 21931638 : G
E (Notes) : M66 : 21881573 : C

E1a : M132 : 21896261 : T
E1b1a1 : CTS6180 : 16713318 : T
E1b1a1 : CTS5964 : 16578072 : C
E1b1a1 : M4745 : 8165984 : G
E1b1a1 : CTS3105 : 14666569 : T
E1b1a1 : CTS6471 : 16922783 : C
E1b1a1 : CTS11729 : 23241047 : A
E1b1a1a1a1c : L485 : 8852858 : T
E1b1a1a1a1c1 : L514 : 14636457 : T
E1b1a1a1a1c1a1 : M191 : 15019613 : G
E1b1a1a1a1c1b : L516 : 19105726 : C
E1b1a1a1a1c1b : L517 : 21593470 : G
E1b1a1a1a1c1b1 : Z1894 : 14887218 : T
E1b1a1a1a2a : U175 : 16253694 : A
E1b1a1a1a2a1 : P277 : 15579215 : G
E1b1a1a1a2a1 : M4254 : 21541514 : A
E1b1a1a1a2a1 : P278.1 : 8467053 : A
E1b1a1a1a2a1a3a1e : L477 : 2867288 : C

G2a2b1a1a : L14 : 22917995 : T
G2a2b2a1a1a1 : L78 : 14871976 : T
G2a2b2a1a1b1a1a1a1b : YSC0000033 : 17353144 : T
G2a2b2a2 : M278 : 15022465 : C
G2b1a : M283 : 15031385 : G

Q1b : L56 : 8148869 : A
Q1b : L57 : 15574102 : A
Q1b1 : L55 : 19413335 : A
Q1b1a : L54 : 23292782 : A
Q1b1a1a : M3 : 19096363 : A
Q1b1a1a1b : M194 : 15014550 : C

--------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------

AND SOME MORE

D1b1a2 : CTS107 : 2731887 : T

DE : M145 : 21717208 : T
DE : CTS3334 : 14842223 : T
DE : F3170.1 : 21306315 : A

F : F2155 : 16401339 : T
F : P148 : 19349615 : T
F : P166 : 17256018 : T
F : P145 : 8424089 : A
F : M89 : 21917313 : T
F : F719 : 2722506 : A
F : F3136 : 21147336 : C
F : M3638 : 2863665 : G
F : L132.1 : 17464197 : C
F : P141 : 6941218 : A
F : P160 : 8474189 : C
F : CTS3654 : 15095345 : G
F : F2402 : 17152659 : C
F : P159 : 18097251 : A
F : CTS4443 : 15651438 : T
F : F2837 : 18765649 : C
F : F1753 : 14294504 : G
F : F3111 : 21080707 : G
F : F1714 : 14171665 : T
F : F2048 : 15955432 : T
F : F1704 : 14149772 : T

H1a1b1a : Page75 : 6938119 : A

IJ : F4281 : 19166861 : C
IJ : YSC0001311 : 18633084 : A
IJ : P127 : 8590752 : T
IJK : L15 : 6753519 : G
IJK : L16 : 7173143 : A

K : P128 : 20837553 : T
K : P132 : 8679843 : T
K : P131 : 15472863 : T
K2 : M526 : 23550924 : C
K2b : M1221 : 16222561 : T

L1b2a : M274 : 22737801 : T

M1 : M189 : 14945705 : T
M1 : M5 : 21609946 : T
M1a2a1 : F2561 : 17678803 : A

O : P186 : 7568568 : A
O : P196 : 15754313 : A
O1b2 : M176 : 2655180 : A
O1b2a2 : Page90 : 14968449 : G
O2 : P198 : 17053771 : T
O2a1b1a1a1a1 : F526 : 19171953 : G
O2a2 : IMS-JST021354 : 2828196 : C
O2a2b : P164 : 14001232 : G

P or K2b2 : F536 : 19315988 : T
P or K2b2 : P295 : 7963031 : G
P1 or K2b2a : P237 : 8334875 : G [/FONT]

[/FONT]

Tt5orIs.png


nxCJliu.png


EOHTKUO.png


https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L52/

I am subgroup R1b1a1b1a1, SNP P310/PF6546/S129, homozygous "C" ("CC", ie, derived allele "C"), position hg37 "18907236".


To know which subgroups are under the R1b1a1b1a1 I would have to do the Y-Full examination of the FTDNA. You're right.


As the price is impractical, it will stay for later.

I'm glad to know I'm R-L52. That's enough for now.


Thanks and that God bless you for the help. :) (y):)

My pleasure! :)

Notice that, in fact, YFull analysis is very good, but it's not mandatory. Tests like BigY (expensive), SNP Packs in FTDNA or Panels in YSEQ, cheaper options, would already place you deeper in the phylogenetic tree. So you have alternatives.

The only way to be R1b-U106 with U106- is a "back mutation", proved by being positive for SNPs downstream, but the chances tend to zero, hence my emphasis.
 
Hello bigsnake49
You said you took the autosomal test on MyHeritage. This company tests several Y chromosome SNPs. Just unzip the excel spreadsheet from the .zip (raw data) file and at the end of the excel spreadsheet unziped you will see that several Y chromosome SNPs have been tested.
You can try do the test manually. Look at this example of mine through messages exchanged in another thread with the member Regio X and see that, precisely, I was able (and you can too) to determine that my basal haplogroup is R-P310.
Big hug :)
Thanks.

Unfortunately, it seems MyHeritage doesn't test for R1b1a1b1 nor R1b1a1b2. If I understand him right, he would have tested positive for L23, and again, MyHeritage wouldn't test the subclades R1b1a1b1a nor R1b1a1b1b. So I guess it remains only P310 for him to check using MyHeritage data.

The problem with LivingDNA is that they list only the SNPs for which the member tested positive, i.e., we don't know what SNPs were tested exactly, which would allow us to infer results. And that's not the only problem, 'cause sometimes their assignments are not the best, either because there's an error of phylogeny or due to another unkwnon reason. For example, LivingDNA says he's R1b-M269, but the very LivingDNA data would suggest he's also R1b-L23, according to Bigsnake himself. And there are more examples. I know of two guys who were assigned as G-Z1817 by LivingDNA, while their list of SNPs did include the downstream Z727. For a moment I thought they belonged to a relatively rare sister clade of G-Z727, but then I realized it was not the case.
LivingDNA should report relevant negative results as well, or at least provide a Raw Data with Y-DNA info. Pity.

Bigsnake could search the following SNPs in LivingDNA list of positive results (still, we couldn't infer results through negative results for downstream SNPs, because the negative are not listed AFAIK) :

R1b1a1b1 --->
L23/PF6534/S141, L478/PF6403, PF6404

R1b1a1b1a --->
L51/M412/PF6536/S167, CTS8595/YSC0001291

R1b1a1b1b --->
CTS1078/Z2103, CTS7340/Z2107, M12149/Y4371/Z8128, M12132/Z8127, CTS9416, PF7575/Z2104, PF7585, S20902, Z2105

R1b1a1b2 --->
PF7558, BY856/GG490/Y19696, BY1713/FGC31957/GG731/Z29759, BY2098/FGC31966/GG815/Z29761, FGC31927/GG428, FGC31931/GG483/V2381, GG439/PF7562, GG572/PH1631/V2850, PH134

The source is ISOGG 2019. I haven't checked YFull.
 
Thanks.

Unfortunately, it seems MyHeritage doesn't test for R1b1a1b1 nor R1b1a1b2. If I understand him right, he would have tested positive for L23, and again, MyHeritage wouldn't test the subclades R1b1a1b1a nor R1b1a1b1b. So I guess it remains only P310 for him to check using MyHeritage data.

The problem with LivingDNA is that they list only the SNPs for which the member tested positive, i.e., we don't know what SNPs were tested exactly, which would allow us to infer results. And that's not the only problem, 'cause sometimes their assignments are not the best, either because there's an error of phylogeny or due to another unkwnon reason. For example, LivingDNA says he's R1b-M269, but the very LivingDNA data would suggest he's also R1b-L23, according to Bigsnake himself. And there are more examples. I know of two guys who were assigned as G-Z1817 by LivingDNA, while their list of SNPs did include the downstream Z727. For a moment I thought they belonged to a relatively rare sister clade of G-Z727, but then I realized it was not the case.
LivingDNA should report relevant negative results as well, or at least provide a Raw Data with Y-DNA info. Pity.

Bigsnake could search the following SNPs in LivingDNA list of positive results (still, we couldn't infer results through negative results for downstream SNPs, because the negative are not listed AFAIK) :

R1b1a1b1 --->
L23/PF6534/S141, L478/PF6403, PF6404

R1b1a1b1a --->
L51/M412/PF6536/S167, CTS8595/YSC0001291

R1b1a1b1b --->
CTS1078/Z2103, CTS7340/Z2107, M12149/Y4371/Z8128, M12132/Z8127, CTS9416, PF7575/Z2104, PF7585, S20902, Z2105

R1b1a1b2 --->
PF7558, BY856/GG490/Y19696, BY1713/FGC31957/GG731/Z29759, BY2098/FGC31966/GG815/Z29761, FGC31927/GG428, FGC31931/GG483/V2381, GG439/PF7562, GG572/PH1631/V2850, PH134

The source is ISOGG 2019. I haven't checked YFull.

I don't have a Myheritage.com autosomal test. I have imported Ancestry.com, LivingDNA.com and a merged file into MyHeritage.com.
 
I don't have a Myheritage.com autosomal test. I have imported Ancestry.com, LivingDNA.com and a merged file into MyHeritage.com.
Ok. You can check if some SNPs I listed are in the list of positive SNPs provided by LivingDNA for you.

R1b1a1b1 --->
L23/PF6534/S141, L478/PF6403, PF6404

R1b1a1b1a --->
L51/M412/PF6536/S167, CTS8595/YSC0001291

R1b1a1b1b --->
CTS1078/Z2103, CTS7340/Z2107, M12149/Y4371/Z8128, M12132/Z8127, CTS9416, PF7575/Z2104, PF7585, S20902, Z2105

R1b1a1b2 --->
PF7558, BY856/GG490/Y19696, BY1713/FGC31957/GG731/Z29759, BY2098/FGC31966/GG815/Z29761, FGC31927/GG428, FGC31931/GG483/V2381, GG439/PF7562, GG572/PH1631/V2850, PH134
 

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