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Thread: Iron Age Gauls: brand new news!

  1. #26
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Please, check this link: https://www.google.com/search?q=torq...piqefY4ZY-DUrM

    Torques from Iron Age Galicia, northwestern Spain. See enlarge the image and look at the right broken part, on the left of the animal head. Many centuries before Anglo-Saxons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidtab View Post
    Please, check this link: https://www.google.com/search?q=torq...piqefY4ZY-DUrM

    Torques from Iron Age Galicia, northwestern Spain. See enlarge the image and look at the right broken part, on the left of the animal head. Many centuries before Anglo-Saxons.
    Although the patterns on the cross, are very different, most European Artwork of these early age's originate's, and stems from the Indo-European cultures, so you will see perceived similarities.

    There were torques found in Scandinavia, and the Germanic area's even in the first century A.D. One famous hoard with a Gold Torque was found in Sweden,at Havor, on the isle of Gotland, dated to the first century A D.

    It was not only the Celts who used Torques. Torques of the Germanic Age were still being used and not confined only to a Celtic culture or people.

    Torque's could of been given as a trade or friendship gifts, or even imported or looted from areas the Roman empire.

    No doubt similar torques were used since the Nordic Bronze Age, continuing in use to the peoples who later became the early Anglo-Saxons.
    Last edited by paul333; 27-08-19 at 21:49.

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    I'm not knowledged in art and jewelry. I think Davidtab was trying to show these decoration patters had not waited AngloSaxon to find birth. IN art, spite I'm not sure, I should guess Celts were rather the teachers than the learners as opposed to Germanics (but I'm not sure, it's true).
    THat said, surely there has been exchanges between cultures, and even more between Indo-European cultures. I already spoke of the contacts between Celts and Scythians concerning art, and Scythians had contacts in far Steppes until Altay.
    To go back to this very thread, I'm rather waiting for more and more precise anDNA of every sort.
    @Johen: snake religion among Celts: I'm an ignorant on the question, maybe it 'll change in future?

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    The Bronze age 'allowed' the manufacture of Torc's, and a lot of differing cultures, and peoples used torc's since, using other material as well, Torcs were not just mainly used during the Celtic age, although it has became synonymous with them,.

    The famous viking 'oath rings' and 'arm rings' sprange from the torc's,of the Nordic Bronze age, and they had continued in use for a very long time.

    The decoration patterns on the Iberian torc Davidtab highlights could of came direct from even as far away as India, as the sybolisims shown on the torc, were used, and spread throughtout the centuries from the Indo european cultures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul333 View Post

    The decoration patterns on the Iberian torc Davidtab highlights could of came direct from even as far away as India, as the sybolisims shown on the torc, were used, and spread throughtout the centuries from the Indo european cultures.
    can you tell me more details?
    As I mentioned before, I try to connect celtic torc to IndoAryan culture.

    "Dating to the early phase of Celtic expansion into this part of Europe, one of the most exquisite artifacts to be discovered on the territory of today’s Bulgaria is the golden torc discovered on the banks of the Danube in the northwest of the country. The torc, from Gorni Tsibar (formerly Cibar Varosh) in the Montana region, is the most easterly example of a number of similar Celtic neck-rings decorated in the ‘Vegetal’ or ‘Waldalgesheim’ style."
    https://balkancelts.wordpress.com/tag/celtic-art/

    Number 8 in india copper hoard. (Number 1 seems to be related to altai petroglyph=> myceneaen circle B burial (post 12)=> china bronze-age character Tian(means, sky)=> Zeus. It is my Zeus formular.)

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    The point I was trying to make was about the artwork on the wheel headed shaft being typical Anglo Saxon.

    The art work on the torc is no doubt the same from Indo-european roots, and is not restricted to Anglo-Saxon etc.

    Torcs and simliar are still used today or recently in North West India, and by many hill tribes in the area.

    The Greeks, and Iranians ( Including 'Scythians' nomads from the Siberian steps ) were also known to of manufactured early period Torcs.

    Torcs are still being used today, as bangles, foot rings, or necklaces in India. Look at the ' Hansuli Necklace Gujarat' its virtually the same, as ancient European torc's.

    The swastic symbol, ( good health ) the swirl, and the stamped triangle's images etc, are also all found in the North West Indian, area's, of Hindu cultures etc, and many other area,s.

    The European Ancestors continued, and developed, these symbols into their 'individual artistic styles' from these earlier Indo-European influences, and the Style of decoration on the Cross is a typical 'Anglo-Saxon' specific artistic development style.

    From the 9th Century onwards, the christian wheel headed cross's decorations developed from a mixture of Celtic,Anglo-Saxon, and Scandinavian art, that incorporated all these cultural styles, and became known today as the 'Celtic Cross'.

    This practice of combining Celtic and Anglo Saxon artwork, began through the difference's between the Celtic, and Roman Christian Church, differing practise's in the British isles, only settled by the Synod of Whitby 664 AD, hence the mixed artwork of the Lindisfarne Gosepels, the Book of Kells etc.
    Last edited by paul333; 31-08-19 at 18:43.

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    About "snakes": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oestriminis

    It´s curious how some items are repetitive, and the high influence of IE culture from the Western extreme of Europe to as far as India.

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    Nor sure the Celtic cross is anything more than an aureole around the head of Christ.

    Anyway, concerning the sunwheel,

    alongside the well-known swastika : https://lite.qwant.com/?q=swastika&t=images

    also noteworthy are...

    ... the Celtic triskell : https://lite.qwant.com/?q=triskell&t=images

    ... and the Slavic kolovrat : https://lite.qwant.com/?q=kolovrat&t=images
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

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    Zardos said...@Drago: "If Unetice collapsed 1600 BC; and a series of (formerly vassal) groups emerged in its place; then it might indeed have something to with arrival of chariot complex."

    And a collapse of Unetice at 1600 BC is exactly what can be seen in the record. Settlements were abandoned and those which remained were more heavily fortified. Its also no coincidence, that the disc from Nebra was buried at exactly the time you would assume for a foreign invasion and/or internal disruption. In the past some archaeologists tried to explain that with economic or ecological issues, but like most of the time, that's nonsense. There was something drastic happening which disrupted the whole, well established and organised system completely. And while internal issues might be the reason, a foreign influx and game changer is the more likely explanations. Looking at what happened in the East at the very same time, I think its reasonable to assume the Sintashta-related chariot expansion has something to do with it (???????????)


    I think 1,600BC or 1,500bc is extremely important time when aryan, mycenaean and china bronze appeared with same concept of Lord. My question is whether the celts also appeared at that time. Does someone know what happened after Unetice collapsed?

    One russian scholar claims that it has something to do with seima turbino:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...004#post585004

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