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Thread: Guess this lady's ethnicity and where she would look one of the natives

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Albanians, are pretty phenotypically diverse. My friend, an Italian guy, is married to one, she's a nice lady. I know her friends who are mostly Albanian too. I went to their wedding, and I noticed this. His wife has light features, but there were indeed some that looked a darker, in hair, eyes, and skin-tone. I think the same phenotypic-diversity can be observed in all Italians, and Greeks, in general. imo

    In terms of genetics, Albanians overlap with Thessaloniki Greeks more than anyone. More than Tuscans, or North Italians.
    True, just like any other country. Pigmentation shouldn't even be part of the argument as we obviously are diverse even within the same family/clan.

    Just like Italy or Greece, Albanians have dinaric, alpine, and mediterranean phenotypes for the most part, only that the ratios between the countries change, with Albania having way more dinaric and Greece more Mediterranean. Simple as that.

    Surprisingly though, Albanians don't resemble Greeks from Thessaloniki despite the genetic overlap. Rather we resemble more with Aetolians, some Thessalians and Peloponnesians, besides the obvious Epirotes. Even Corfiotes that are so close to us don't resemble much.

    P.s. What could explain the genetic affinity of the Albanians with Makedonians could be the fact that during the Avaro-Slavic attacks on Thessaloniki between 614-616 AD it was recorded that the area was flooded with refugees from Dardania, Pannonia, and Thrace, especially after the sacking of Naissus and Serdica by the aforementioned. I mean besides the proximity and cultural ties between the South Illyrians, Epirotes, Paeonians, and Makedonians, as well as the fact that Philip II brought many of such tribes down from the mountains and trained them as phalangites. Only 1 account counted 10.000 Illyrians given land in Makedon to be later trained and recruited.

    That could be one of the reasons that explains the large numbers of Vlachs in the area.

  2. #27
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    Another addition to the local genepool is the arrival of Kuber .
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuber


    Kuber was the ruler of a mixed population in the former Roman province of Pannonia Secunda, including the descendants of the prisoners of war whom the Avars had captured in the Balkan Peninsula and settled around Sirmium.[4][5][15] He was made governor by the khagan.[7][16]Historian Samuel Szádeczky-Kardoss – who accepts Kuber's identification as Kubrat's son and thus a scion of the royal Dulo clan – writes that Kuber became governor of that region, because the Khagan wanted to separate him from his Bulgar subjects who had followed him from the Pontic steppes.[4] Kuber's subjects called themselves Sermesianoi,[16] but the Byzantines regarded them "Bulgars".[17] They preserved their Christian traditions, although their ancestors had been taken to the Avar Khaganate about 60 years before Kuber's appointment.[5]
    While negotiating with Emperor Heraclius beneath the walls of Constantinople in 617, the Avars launched a surprise attack. While they were unable to capture the city centre they pillaged the suburbs of the city and took 270,000 captives(!!!). Payments in gold and goods to the Avars reached the record sum of 200,000 solidi shortly before 626.[42]
    ..and there are other captives from campaigns in Pannonia,Dalmatia and Macedonia that probably came back south with Kuber.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by td120 View Post

    Same here. More pronounced if one has ancestry from Thrace...on some calculators Kosovar or Thessalonian Greek or Macedonian would pop up before Bulgarian. Johane Derite may be right on this but it is just a part of the whole story it seems.

    P.S. The lady looked completely Greek to me.
    In the calculators that don't have Kossovars as one of their populations then Bulgarians are the second population after Greek or Greek_Thessaly.

    With regards to your P.S., her mother was from Terranova da Sibari which means the new land of the Sibari, the inhabitants of Sybaris, the Greek colony on the bay of Tarantum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybaris). So she could be of Ancient Greek descent or of course pure Italian or maybe Arbereshe since there is a nearby town name Spezzano di Albanesi. Now it is my own opinion that the Arvanites and Arbereshe were insular communities and it's only in the last 70-80 years that they started being assimilated into their surrounding communities. I did grow up in a town in Thrace that was 90% Arvanites so I should now a little bit about them.

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    There was a lot of population movement in the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th centuries. Then there are bribes to invaders to not invade anymore and settle down. Then rewards to mercenaries that fought well for the Byzantines or the Varangian Guard. So at least on a local scale you could have some obvious anomalies.

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    @Nik @Johane Derite do you remember the albanian film "14 vjeç dhenderr"? I think that there are some interesting phenotypes there to discuss but i can't post any image, i don't know how to do it from the Ipad, if you could do that i would be glad to you.
    The kid, Gjino, looks very south italian to me, like a kid version of Al Pacino i would even say, while the wife with whom they have married him looks like the most greek woman i have ever seen.
    What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    @Nik @Johane Derite do you remember the albanian film "14 vjeç dhenderr"?

    This is the film you're talking about. I disagree with you, they all look Albanian to me.

    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post

    This is the film you're talking about. I disagree with you, they all look Albanian to me.

    Yes, exactly this film.
    Yes ofcourse they look albanian but the question here is: what else could they pass as other than albanian? I think the kid could pass as southern italian, particulary from sicily.

    + I find that in particular spainiards are the mediterraneans that have some types that look the most albanian, for instance look at the famous marc marquez, motogp champion, his ears, his eyes, his skin color, his lips, i mean litterally all of his features could pass as albanian.

  8. #33
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    This month i was 1 week in Budva, montenegro: people, food and environment were awesome but the funniest part was noticing the faces of people.
    You could easly differentiate the locals from the serbian tourists, who are like 70% of the population now that it's summer: serbians are in average a lot more noric and pale skinned while the montenegrians were overwelmingly northern albanian looking, typical malsor, light brown skins everywhere, very hairy and albanian like eyebrows, but very tall people, i mean, they impressed me even daugh i am not that short (1.88m), probably due to better food during the 70 years of communist regime due to their lack of a factor called enver hoxha :)
    As a conclusion being there with them every day was a fantastic unexpected expirience, they all noticed i was albanian because i would speak it with my parents but unlike all the serbs in the restaurant kinda watching at us in a bad unwelcoming way montenegrians were very happy and welcoming, speaking with some of them who knew english, mostly younger people cuz the elders are ofc not so international as in every other european country, they would recognize that the albanian culture and ethnicity had a crucial role in the formation of their identity but the communist regime tried to eradicate this from their common knowledge by trying to mak them feel more serbian, but this of course failed and we have an indipendent montenegro now wich is a fantastic country with a very beautiful story in the background.
    They even told me that the country is kinda split in two groups: a good 20-30% of them who are real serbs who don't like albanians at all or rather they don't have that much simpathy for them, and the majority who are montenegrians and really don't have anything against albanians if not as i told you recognise the medieval history of the country as a midway of "slavicity" and "albanianness".
    Nice country, especially if you are albanians, you should visit.

    + It was very funny seing them speaking with each other: tone of voice, gestures, the way they would recognize each other in the streets and salute their friends, their loud way of talking, it was like as if they were some relatives of mine just talking in a foreign language.

    And no, not talking about albanian muslim minority in ulqin or Plave dhe Guci, i was in Budva-Bar, orthodox serbian speaking people.

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