IJ and I, how they evolved

M

Mir

Guest
It seems to be the consensus that I originated in Europe (all evidence points toward that), after it split from IJ, its father haplogroup. Since both I and J split from IJ, is it possible that when IJ split first, that it was into only J at first, and then later I in Europe?

In other words, when IJ split, it didn't necessarily split into I as well as J at the same time, correct? It was possible that it first split into J in the Middle East, but not I, but when carrier of IJ arrived in Europe, it then split into I as well, but not J?

Another thing: What samples do we have from Upper Paleolithic corpses of IJ in Europe? Do they predate I in Europe?

Thanks.
 
I guess the IJ split happened in Georgia.
Ortvale Klde, Dzudzuana cave, ...
 
I guess the IJ split happened in Georgia.
Ortvale Klde, Dzudzuana cave, ...
My real question is, could J have split from IJ without I doing so? I'm not too informed on this, but I guess the answer would be yes? J could have split off from IJ in the Middle East, then IJ continued into Europe and then I split from IJ also. Could this be possible?

I strongly doubt I split from IJ around the Caucasus. There are not many I carriers there, and usually haplogroups that reach such an area get "stuck" due to the mountaneous region, so if Y-DNA I did indeed split from IJ in Caucausus, we would probably find it being carried in higher numbers there today, but also in the past. Why are all the UP carriers of Haplogroup I in the "main" part of Europe (i.e. Ukraine and to the west of it)? Why is the oldest I sample found in Italy, so far from Anatolia and the Caucasus? And not just that, but virtually all modern carriers of I and its subclades are in Europe.

It seems ridiculous to me to suggest, as I've seen some do, that I split from IJ around the Caucasus. Some even suggest Anatolia/Middle East, which I have no idea how they imagine have happened. If that were the case, obviously we'd have some UP carriers of Hg I down there? And a plethora of subclades of Hg I in modern carriers? Usually the region of origin of a Hg, even a subclade, has the most diversity of its subclades.

So, I see no good reason for why I would split off from IJ anywhere but inside or west of Ukraine/Black Sea region.
 
It seems to be the consensus that I originated in Europe (all evidence points toward that), after it split from IJ, its father haplogroup. Since both I and J split from IJ, is it possible that when IJ split first, that it was into only J at first, and then later I in Europe?

In other words, when IJ split, it didn't necessarily split into I as well as J at the same time, correct? It was possible that it first split into J in the Middle East, but not I, but when carrier of IJ arrived in Europe, it then split into I as well, but not J?

Another thing: What samples do we have from Upper Paleolithic corpses of IJ in Europe? Do they predate I in Europe?

Thanks.

the last major study on answer was done
https://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/2008/04/02/gr.7172008.abstract

IJ haplogroups came from Central Asia
 
Hi very new here,,,do not know much as yet,,but I notice that your format reads 1J does that mean the same as J1? excuse my newness thanks Silverbird.
 

This thread has been viewed 5796 times.

Back
Top