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Thread: World's oldest bikini?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    World's oldest bikini?



    Maybe, maybe not, but the best preserved one, I think. I don't know how I feel about a leather bikini bottom, though. :)

    From ancient Rome:


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Forgot to post this.

    How things changed for the worse in some ways with the fall of Rome. It would take 1500 years for women to get this kind of freedom back.



    That style of bikini is still around. It's called the bandeau style. Not terribly secure though if you're going to actually go in the water. :) Much better to add two straps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    How things changed for the worse in some ways with the fall of Rome. It would take 1500 years for women to get this kind of freedom back.


    how do you mean that? you mean women who lived on roman territory lost their freedom after rome fell relatively to what they had before in rome or do you mean women were particularly free in rome compared to other societies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    how do you mean that? you mean women who lived on roman territory lost their freedom after rome fell relatively to what they had before in rome or do you mean women were particularly free in rome compared to other societies?
    I meant primarily that women in Europe as a whole, starting in the early years of the Middle Ages after the fall of Rome, wouldn't get the ability to play sports again until the late 19th century as a whole, and even when they did their bodies had to be completely covered up.

    This must have been a whole lot of fun. :)





    There were very few medieval women who bucked the rules. Eleanor of Aquitaine was one of the few. She insisted on accompanying her husband, the French King, to the Holy Land on Crusade and rode astraddle most of the way, something Victorian women certainly weren't allowed to do.

    Why more of them didn't break their necks is beyond me.



    On reflection, I think their bikini tops were more like bindings so the breasts wouldn't flop around during real exertion, like sports bras today, so they probably stayed up alright, which is more than you can say for the modern bandeau top.

    I wonder if the women of Sparta wore those or just went nude? No, they'd have to bind their breasts. Too annoying and painful if they didn't.

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    i wouldn't tie this loss of freedom of women to the fall of rome though. i'm not aware that women had more freedom in rome than elsewhere in europe or near east at any given timepoint. and clothing habits of women were maybe already different during the late stages of the roman empire. could this change be tied to christianity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    i wouldn't tie this loss of freedom of women to the fall of rome though. i'm not aware that women had more freedom in rome than elsewhere in europe or near east at any given timepoint. and clothing habits of women were maybe already different during the late stages of the roman empire. could this change be tied to christianity?
    Partly, but you're wrong that Roman women didn't have more freedom than women in certain parts of the known world at that time, i.e. Athens, the Near East.

    They could, after a certain point, inherit property, own property, run businesses, etc. It depends on the time period.

    They didn't have as many rights as Etruscan women, however, and I suppose some would argue that the women of the Celtic tribes had a lot of rights as well. They could at least go to war, which most Roman women couldn't do, although I don't think that's something I'd fight for...

    "Although the rights and status of women in the earliest period of Roman history were more restricted than in the late Republic and Empire, as early as the 5th century BC, Roman women could own land, write their own wills, and appear in court. The historian Valerius Maximus devotes a section of his work On Memorable Deeds and Speeches to women who conducted cases on their own behalf, or on behalf of others.[46] These women showed ability as orators in the courtroom, even though oratory was considered a defining pursuit of the most ambitious Roman men. "

    "An emancipated woman legally became sui iuris, or her own person, and could own property and dispose of it as she saw fit. If a pater familias died intestate, the law required the equal division of his estate amongst his children, regardless of their age and sex. A will that did otherwise, or emancipated any family member without due process of law, could be challenged.[54] From the late Republic onward, a woman who inherited a share equal with her brothers would have been independent of agnatic control.[55]As in the case of minors, an emancipated woman had a legal guardian (tutor) appointed to her. She retained her powers of administration, however, and the guardian's main if not sole purpose was to give formal consent to actions.[56] The guardian had no say in her private life, and a woman sui iuris could marry as she pleased.[57] A woman also had certain avenues of recourse if she wished to replace an obstructive tutor.[58] Under Augustus, a woman who had gained the ius liberorum, the legal right to certain privileges after bearing three children, was also released from guardianship,[59] and the emperor Claudius banned agnatic guardianship. The role of guardianship as a legal institution gradually diminished, and by the 2nd century CE the jurist Gaius said he saw no reason for it.[60] The Christianization of the Empire, beginning with the conversion of the Emperor Constantine in the early 4th century, eventually had consequences for the legal status of women."

    "In marriage by usus, if a woman was absent for three consecutive nights at least once a year, she would avoid her husband establishing legal control over her. This differed from the Athenian custom of arranged marriage and sequestered wives who were not supposed to walk in the street unescorted."

    "
    Divorce was a legal but relatively informal affair which mainly involved a wife leaving her husband’s house and taking back her dowry. According to the historian Valerius Maximus, divorces were taking place by 604 BCE or earlier, and the law code as embodied in the mid-5th century BCE by the Twelve Tables provides for divorce. Divorce was socially acceptable if carried out within social norms (mos maiorum). By the time of Cicero and Julius Caesar, divorce was relatively common and "shame-free," the subject of gossip rather than a social disgrace.[71]"


    You can read the article for yourself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_...family_and_law


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