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Thread: aDNA does not indicate Native American ethnicities but mtDNA is B2

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    My New Kit MyHeritage – Ancestry + Health
    Eurogenes - nMonte3 Oracle Results - YourPortalDNA

    Eurogenes K13
    Europe : 95.6%
    North Africa: 1.4%
    Sub-Saharan Africa: 2%
    Asia: 0.6%
    America: 0.2%
    Oceania: 0.2%
    TOTAL: 100%




    Eurogenes V2 K15
    Europe : 97.0%
    North Africa: 0.2%
    Sub-Saharan Africa: 2.4%
    Asia: 0.0%
    America: 0.4%
    Oceania: 0.0%
    TOTAL: 100%



    Eurogenes K36
    Europe : 99%
    West Asia: 0.8 %
    Sub-Saharan Africa: 0.2%
    TOTAL: 100%

    Interesting that Extremadura and Andalusia are your closest matches. Those are the areas from which the majority of Spanish New World peoples draw their descent, and I also think they may be the Spanish provinces, along with Galicia, closest to the Portuguese.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Interesting that Extremadura and Andalusia are your closest matches. Those are the areas from which the majority of Spanish New World peoples draw their descent, and I also think they may be the Spanish provinces, along with Galicia, closest to the Portuguese.
    I think you're right Angela. Although I am not very keen on family traditions, I have a side of the family, the “Viegas”, who are very attached to these things. They did a wide family origins survey and even have a “coat of arms”. They had a family meeting where everyone gathered and I refused to go. But my father, my mother (at the time they still alive) and my brothers went there. Even though I didn't go there, they were kind and sent me the family “coat of arms” and the "book" with all the ancestors. I never opened the book but It’s written below the “coat of arms” that the family is of Spanish origin (Extremadura). Below the photo of the mentioned pennant:


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    Come on, men! As far as I understand, you live in the South America with European ancestry from about 500 years ago and also a motherline from the same epoch. I remember a version of "Old Shutterhand" by Karl May ? This is history and this is the past .... No one can change, but at least know about it. And here you are right I think.

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    aDNA does not indicate Native American ethnicities but mtDNA is B2

    Quote Originally Posted by I() View Post
    Come on, men! As far as I understand, you live in the South America with European ancestry from about 500 years ago and also a motherline from the same epoch. I remember a version of "Old Shutterhand" by Karl May ? This is history and this is the past .... No one can change, but at least know about it. And here you are right I think.
    @ I()
    Now results of FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence is equals to Y-Full’s mtHaplotree. For while my deeper mitochondrial DNA is equivalent to an ancient indigenous from Americas (the called founders peoples). I do not belong to any of the known subclades of B2 mtDNA.







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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    @ I()
    Now results of FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence is equals to Y-Full’s mtHaplotree. For while my deeper mitochondrial DNA is equivalent to an ancient indigenous from Americas (the called founders peoples). I do not belong to any of the known subclades of B2 mtDNA.







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    I know of something similar happening to some Cubans. Some carry sub-lineages of L1 or L2 (and L3, of course), can't remember the details of the particular case I'm remembering. It's easy to say it comes from an African slave woman brought to Cuba, but there are instances of those lineages showing up in the Canary Islands, from which some Cubans derive ancestry, and also from Southern Spain, and, of course, Portugal. One sample showed up in Bronze Age Spain.

    Some detailed sub-lineage work has to be done to figure it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I know of something similar happening to some Cubans. Some carry sub-lineages of L1 or L2 (and L3, of course), can't remember the details of the particular case I'm remembering. It's easy to say it comes from an African slave woman brought to Cuba, but there are instances of those lineages showing up in the Canary Islands, from which some Cubans derive ancestry, and also from Southern Spain, and, of course, Portugal. One sample showed up in Bronze Age Spain.

    Some detailed sub-lineage work has to be done to figure it out.
    Yes, indeed Angela. What intrigues me most is that my maternal great-grandmother was Portuguese and, in turn, daughter of a Portuguese male and a Spanish female. Where did this B2 come from?

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    Autosomal DNA (FTDNA and MyHeritage) does not indicate Native American ethnicities to me
    But it does! You scored trace amounts of South America. GEDmatch confirms you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Yes, indeed Angela. What intrigues me most is that my maternal great-grandmother was Portuguese and, in turn, daughter of a Portuguese male and a Spanish female. Where did this B2 come from?
    You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?

    Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1

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    aDNA does not indicate Native American ethnicities but mtDNA is B2

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    But it does! You scored trace amounts of South America. GEDmatch confirms you have it.



    You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?

    Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1
    Thanks for the link Tomenable :)
    Yes, I know that (GEDmatch admixtures).
    But I have always believed that my autosomal SSA DNA and my (little) autosomal Amerindian DNA were an inheritance from my paternal family and my maternal grandfather's family, who are descendants of colonial Iberians. My maternal grandmother's family is totally Iberian and arrived in Brazil in 1908. It was from my mother, from my maternal grandmother, from my maternal great-grandmother (Portuguese) and from my maternal great-great-grandmother (Spanish) that I inherited mtDNA B2. From my father I inherited the R1b-L151 (provisional, until the conclusion of BIG Y in November).
    Hugs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    But it does! You scored trace amounts of South America. GEDmatch confirms you have it.



    You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?

    Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1
    Perhaps a mestizo girl may have gone to Spain with the Spanish Jesuits who were expelled from the "Missions" by the Portuguese in the mid eighteenth century. Maybe my great-great-grandmother is a descendant of this girl. It is worth speculating on anything
    Hugs ;)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?
    Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    I didn't read the study yet, but the article above states the following:
    "This research strongly suggests that while paternal inheritance of mtDNA can occur, it is extremely rare and likely co-presents with mitochondrial disease. Thus, all mtDNA research to date suggests that paternal inheritance of mtDNA will not affect genealogical research."

    @Duarte
    As discussed before, we never know, but the odds are it's Native American, which is reinforced by certain mutations in your coding region. It's possible a new branch was not "decided" yet because of the "ambiguity" of your results; still, in a first look, the current possibilities seem to point to America. Just a guess. We'll probably have a definitive answer in the future. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    I didn't read the study yet, but the article above states the following:
    "This research strongly suggests that while paternal inheritance of mtDNA can occur, it is extremely rare and likely co-presents with mitochondrial disease. Thus, all mtDNA research to date suggests that paternal inheritance of mtDNA will not affect genealogical research."

    @Duarte
    As discussed before, we never know, but the odds are it's Native American, which is reinforced by certain mutations in your coding region. It's possible a new branch was not "decided" yet because of the "ambiguity" of your results; still, in a first look, the current possibilities seem to point to America. Just a guess. We'll probably have a definitive answer in the future. :)
    Thank you Regio. :)

    The article presented by Tomenable does not negate what is presented in his article. The hypothesis arguided by the authors is that fully healthy individuals may, also, have mitochondrial heteroplasmy:

    “Luo and colleagues identified three families with mtDNA heteroplasmy that could not be explained by maternal inheritance. The story started with a young boy suspected of having a mitochondrial disease. The authors performed high-resolution mtDNA sequencing, but did not identify any disease-causing mtDNA mutations. However, their analysis uncovered unusually high levels of mtDNA heteroplasmy. Intriguingly, the same unusual pattern of mtDNA variation was found in the boy’s mother and in his two healthy sisters (Fig. 1).


    Figure 1 - Family tree revealing paternal inheritance of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Luo et al.2 sequenced the mtDNA of several members of a family in which many individuals had a high level of mtDNA heteroplasmy (the presence of distinct genetic variants in the same cell). This mtDNA variability is denoted by two colours in the same silhouette of an individual. The analysis showed that some of the individuals with heteroplasmy had inherited mtDNA from both of their parents, breaking the usual pattern of exclusive maternal inheritance of mtDNA. Luo et al. suggest that the ability to inherit paternal mtDNA is a genetic trait.

    Although biparental inheritance of mtDNA and heteroplasmy coincided with disease symptoms in some of the individuals studied by Luo et al., the authors’ data do not demonstrate a causal link with disease. In fact, we cannot be certain that the study participants have mitochondrial disease, because no specific examinations to confirm this diagnosis are reported. Further study is needed to identify more cases of potential paternal mtDNA inheritance, and to determine the functional consequences of such heteroplasmy. Notably, this knowledge is relevant to mitochondrial-donation therapy (“three-parent babies”), which aims to prevent the transmission of disease-causing mtDNA to offspring, but which can also potentially generate individuals with two types of mtDNA, one from the donor and another from the mother.”


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Thank you Regio. :)

    The article presented by Tomenable does not negate what is presented in his article. The hypothesis arguided by the authors is that fully healthy individuals may, also, have mitochondrial heteroplasmy:

    “Luo and colleagues identified three families with mtDNA heteroplasmy that could not be explained by maternal inheritance. The story started with a young boy suspected of having a mitochondrial disease. The authors performed high-resolution mtDNA sequencing, but did not identify any disease-causing mtDNA mutations. However, their analysis uncovered unusually high levels of mtDNA heteroplasmy. Intriguingly, the same unusual pattern of mtDNA variation was found in the boy’s mother and in his two healthy sisters (Fig. 1).


    Figure 1 - Family tree revealing paternal inheritance of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Luo et al.2 sequenced the mtDNA of several members of a family in which many individuals had a high level of mtDNA heteroplasmy (the presence of distinct genetic variants in the same cell). This mtDNA variability is denoted by two colours in the same silhouette of an individual. The analysis showed that some of the individuals with heteroplasmy had inherited mtDNA from both of their parents, breaking the usual pattern of exclusive maternal inheritance of mtDNA. Luo et al. suggest that the ability to inherit paternal mtDNA is a genetic trait.

    Although biparental inheritance of mtDNA and heteroplasmy coincided with disease symptoms in some of the individuals studied by Luo et al., the authors’ data do not demonstrate a causal link with disease. In fact, we cannot be certain that the study participants have mitochondrial disease, because no specific examinations to confirm this diagnosis are reported. Further study is needed to identify more cases of potential paternal mtDNA inheritance, and to determine the functional consequences of such heteroplasmy. Notably, this knowledge is relevant to mitochondrial-donation therapy (“three-parent babies”), which aims to prevent the transmission of disease-causing mtDNA to offspring, but which can also potentially generate individuals with two types of mtDNA, one from the donor and another from the mother.”


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    @Duarte
    Sure, sure. The article certainly doesn't contradict the study. It's in fact based on the study:
    "Will Luo and colleagues’ findings affect the counselling of individuals carrying disease-causing mtDNA mutations who are considering having children? Not greatly, because paternal mitochondrial transmission seems to be exceedingly rare in humans."
    So exceedingly rare...

    Plus, as the article pointed out, the study apparently deal with the condition as a disease - mild or not, depending on each case. Yes, healthy individuals may have it, a situation that seems to be even rarer. It's just that, the way it was diffused in the media, it looked like it was just an uncommon situation without any implications. That's why the article states:
    "Be careful with the media coverage, which can omit several important facts such as the mitochondrial disease. Here are a few links, some of them a bit sensationalized by omitting the significant limitations:"
    This is what motivated my comment.

    The whole point, in short, is that you're a Brazilian with a typical Native American mtDNA, associated to traces of the related ancestry in autosomal. Where Occam's razor points to? mtDNA inheritance from father or a Iberian origin based on traces of B2 in Cataluña (less problematic than an inheritance from father though), while in theory possible, looks like unnecessary speculations here. It would affect each testee no matter the case, with no reason for so. Such speculations demand more than that imo. Point is that the answer looks way simpler, but I agree it's fun to do these mental exercises.
    Finally, I know you haven't said otherwise. :) At the end, we likely agree.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    @Duarte
    Sure, sure. The article certainly doesn't contradict the study. It's in fact based on the study:
    "Will Luo and colleagues’ findings affect the counselling of individuals carrying disease-causing mtDNA mutations who are considering having children? Not greatly, because paternal mitochondrial transmission seems to be exceedingly rare in humans."
    So exceedingly rare...

    Plus, as the article pointed out, the study apparently deal with the condition as a disease - mild or not, depending on each case. Yes, healthy individuals may have it, a situation that seems to be even rarer. It's just that, the way it was diffused in the media, it looked like it was just an uncommon situation without any implications. That's why the article states:
    "Be careful with the media coverage, which can omit several important facts such as the mitochondrial disease. Here are a few links, some of them a bit sensationalized by omitting the significant limitations:"
    This is what motivated my comment.

    The whole point, in short, is that you're a Brazilian with a typical Native American mtDNA, associated to traces of the related ancestry in autosomal. Where Occam's razor points to? mtDNA inheritance from father or a Iberian origin based on traces of B2 in Cataluña (less problematic than an inheritance from father though), while in theory possible, looks like unnecessary speculations here. It would affect each testee no matter the case, with no reason for so. Such speculations demand more than that imo. Point is that the answer looks way simpler, but I agree it's fun to do these mental exercises.
    Finally, I know you haven't said otherwise. :) At the end, we likely agree.

    Cheers.
    Cheers back, dear friend. Thanks once again ;)


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    Hi Duarte!
    In Spain, "Indianos" were called those who, being Spaniards or their descendants, after having made their fortunes in the American colonies (formerly called "Las Indias" in Spain), returned to the peninsula. Apparently some American mitochondrial lineage arrived in Spain in this way, as seen in a study published by the Genographic Project on a sampling in Asturias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by italouruguayan View Post
    Hi Duarte!
    In Spain, "Indianos" were called those who, being Spaniards or their descendants, after having made their fortunes in the American colonies (formerly called "Las Indias" in Spain), returned to the peninsula. Apparently some American mitochondrial lineage arrived in Spain in this way, as seen in a study published by the Genographic Project on a sampling in Asturias.
    Thank you Italo. You’re very kind. Very useful information. Maybe my great-great-grandmother was Indiana. Below my great-great-grandfather, the Portuguese António Guerra, in 1908. Next, his granddaughter and my grandmother - maybe, in this sense, Indiana as my great-great-grandmother, the Spanish female, Filomena. My grandma was Brazilian, of dual nationality (Portuguese and Brazilian). Her name is Maria Angelica Viegas. Pic of 1972, shortly before her death at 64 yers old.



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    Thanks Duarte! I'm glad to have contributed something useful.
    My mtDNA, A2, coincides with the sample of Asturias, and according to Maciamo, also with that of the Mexican-American actress Eva Longoria.
    Regards!

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    Quote Originally Posted by italouruguayan View Post
    Thanks Duarte! I'm glad to have contributed something useful.
    My mtDNA, A2, coincides with the sample of Asturias, and according to Maciamo, also with that of the Mexican-American actress Eva Longoria.
    Regards!


    Eva is really a very beautiful woman. You have with She a fantastic mtDNA “match”. Wikipedia says that, “despite She beings of Mexican (Tejano) origin, Eva Longoria's ancestors moved to the present state of Texas even before it was incorporated into the United States. She managed to trace her ancestry to the region of Asturias in Spain. A genetic study by a television program also suggests that she has indigenous descent and a bit of African descent. According to this study, Longoria's ancestry is 70% European, 27% Amerindian, and 3% African. Eva was named by “People en Español” magazine as one of the 25 most beautiful people on the planet and by Maxim magazine, in the first position, among the sexiest female stars in the world.”

    Regards.




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    Yes, Duarte. My "relative" is really beautiful (fortunately my wife does not read these posts ...lol...). And my "mix" is very similar to hers: I'm 79% European, 18% Native American and 3% sub-Saharan African ...

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by italouruguayan View Post
    Yes, Duarte. My "relative" is really beautiful (fortunately my wife does not read these posts ...lol...). And my "mix" is very similar to hers: I'm 79% European, 18% Native American and 3% sub-Saharan African ...
    Lol. It's better to really say nothing. It will be hard to explain that it is just a post in a forum about genetics. The first thing my wife would ask is, who is this girl and what are you doing? LOL. Have a nice night dear friend Ítalo.


    Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    maybe everywhere, women are the same...
    We must be careful because it is a word in Romania that sounds like this.
    "The woman lifts you ... the woman drops you." ...

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    Big Y 700 complete. FTDNA's results displayed today:

    R1b > M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312 > DF27 > ZZ12 > ZZ19 > Z31644 > BY2285 > BY25634 > FGC35133









    Last edited by Duarte; 28-10-19 at 15:25.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Thank you Italo. You’re very kind. Very useful information. Maybe my great-great-grandmother was Indiana. Below my great-great-grandfather, the Portuguese António Guerra, in 1908. Next, his granddaughter and my grandmother - maybe, in this sense, Indiana as my great-great-grandmother, the Spanish female, Filomena. My grandma was Brazilian, of dual nationality (Portuguese and Brazilian). Her name is Maria Angelica Viegas. Pic of 1972, shortly before her death at 64 yers old.


    I love her eyes, and the streak of white in her hair. She could easily be Italian as well, but not the man. He looks completely Iberian to me.

    Nice pictures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I love her eyes, and the streak of white in her hair. She could easily be Italian as well, but not the man. He looks completely Iberian to me.

    Nice pictures.
    Thank you Angela.
    As always, you're very kind :)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Big Y 700 complete. FTDNA's results displayed today:

    R1b > M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312 > DF27 > ZZ12 > ZZ19 > Z31644 > BY2285 > BY25634 > FGC35133







    Awesome, Duarte! Finally! Congrats!

    @Angela
    Completely agree. She could be Italian.

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