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Thread: Is there a connection between G-L497 and metallurgy?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G-L497
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2b

    Ethnic group
    Halstatt Celtic
    Country: United States



    Is there a connection between G-L497 and metallurgy?

    G-L30 could represent a Old Europe/LBK/pre-PIE-Halstatt cultural horizon in which mountainous blacksmithing was invented, the dominant artisans amongst them being brought into the PIE nobility early on due to their ability to craft armor and weapons for the nobility hence explaining the prevalence of R1b + G-L497 (originally from Romania) all across the PIE horizon from Ireland to India. While G2a was wiped out wholesale, it was also the only haplogroup to be integrated into the horselord nobility and moved around with R1b. Why?

    Is it possible that bronze smelting was invented by G-L497 members of the Danube region near Romania/Ukraine and that the PIE's, being sophisticated "barbarians" saw this technology as absolutely essential, transforming them from man on large equestrian beast to armored man with space-age weaponry on equestrian beast thus giving the PIE's the last piece of the puzzle they needed to achieve complete dominance over anyone they encountered? Domestication of the horse doesn't give them that initial advantage on its own. Remember, PIE's are famous for forcing the entrance of the Bronze Age not the Horse Age. In fact, I think the explanation that they were constantly in their saddles 24/7 might be a bit simplistic. We know artisans were higher than farmers on the social structure with blacksmiths having to be at the top of the artisans just below warriors with many being warriors themselves. Blacksmiths most likely traveled with their shops in ox-drawn covered wagons. Again, you can't have the Bronze Age without blacksmithing. This isn't meteoric iron or copper or gold here. It takes an advanced process as well as the necessary materials, knowledge, and time to perfect the art over centuries before we see "Bronze Age Horse Warriors with Bronze Armor and Weapons".

    If this theory is true it would explain the following:

    1) Old Europe to Proto-Sumerian connection leading to Sumerian cuneiform but more importantly here, the Chalcolithic to Bronze Age transition for both the PIE's and the Sumerians (cuneiform tablets could contain smelting instructions, otherwise is a completely different topic). As much as I hate the written word and think it to be stale the second it hits the page, I will be the first to admit that ledger keeping, laws, and technical instructions should be transmitted via written word because too much info about physical processes needs to be conveyed. Think: "King XYZ declined your offer to wed his daughter. Sorry, sire" vs "here is a blacksmithing schematic/lesson on how to heat up a forge on this clay tablet here". So I do admit that cuneiform writing invented by the Vinca culture and transmitted to the Proto-Sumerian horizon could have actually been the missing sauce in terms of G-L497's survival. However, I would like to focus this discussion on blacksmithing not on the invention of writing.

    2) Why G2a was wiped clean off the face of the earth but survived as G-L497 and practically nothing else outside of the Caucasus. Most G2a clades are G-L497. Eupedia even makes a huge point in bold on the G2a site about how thoroughly G2a was annihilated with the exception of this one clade. Sure G2a might be 10% of Europe today but something like 90% of that 10% is G2a-L497 (Proto-Indo-European G2a clade).

    3) Why there is only 1 haplogroup besides clades of R1b and R1a seen in the horse lord nobility descendants from Ireland to India. This indicates a very early culture fusion between G2a-L497 and R1b/R1a. Now the question is: Why did this one clade get spared?

    4) The Hallstatt culture (G2a-L497 + R1b at western end of Danubian/Dinaric/Alpine cultural horizon) and its focus on mining and smithing which led to all of the known West European PIE descendant traditions with the big players in the room being the Celts and Romans. Keep in mind that the Romans post Gaius Marius had their Legionnaires as blacksmiths, construction workers, and soldiers and recruited heavily from mountainous areas known to be inhabited by G2as like the Rhaetians or former Etruscan settlements. In fact, the highest areas of recruitment for legionaires were from the mountains east of the Latium (which have the highest concentration of extant pre-indo-european G2a) and the Rhaetians in the Alps. See my post about G2a mountainous homeland theory: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...high-altitudes

    5) Iron smelting. After bronze smelting was invented around the Danube area, Iron smelting pops up in use by the Hittites and/or other Anatolian people like the Hurrians or Hattians. Regardless, Anatolia is right on the cusp of Old Europe and the Danube area. Furthermore, Collin Renfew aside, the Anatolian Hypothesis might be partially true in the sense that PIE's probably went West to Germany and South to Anatolia around the same time as is evidenced by the weird Anatolian branches of the PIE language. "PIE's go south from Danube to Anatolia and become Hittites" "Hittites = R1b elite lording over G2a's, E1b1b's, J2's, and possibly some T's and J1's" - sounds mighty similar to exactly what seems to have happened in the Danube region.

    When we talk about Y chromosomal haplogroups or even maternal DNA, we know entire civilizations can be started by a single haplogroup tribe. We're not even going that far here with this assumption. I'm only saying that a clade of G2a-L497 came from a mountainous region near the Carpathian Mountains and was either the inventor or an extremely early adopter of metallurgical blacksmithing and thus were held in high-esteem by some wave of invading martial Indo-European horselords and thus G2a-L497 was spared and integrated into Indo-European nobility early on due to their *initial* augmentative abilities as blacksmiths. From there, they became indistinguishable from the R1b's and R1a's and the rest is history.

    The only other places where we don't see complete wipe out of indigenous people and integration into some strata of Indo-European nobility is in Scandinavia with I1. I suspect the Indo-Europeans bumped into a culturally Proto Finno-Ugric, genetically Mesolithic Scandinavian Hunter Gatherer population that had a respectable warlike boat culture which was highly synergistic with the culture of the Indo-Europeans and/or were physical monsters but regardless survived both the Neolithic population replacement by G2as first and then later waves of R1a then R1b's for some reason just like the G-L497's survived and integrated for some "unknown" reason. Other surviving haplogroups tend to fall outside the sphere of PIE influence or can be explained by late PIE exposure like the G2a + I2 population Sardinia which was not colonized by the Romans until very late (but still had a mountainous culture which built over 7000 Nuraghe fortresses on the sides of mountains [again my mountain origin theory of G2a: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...high-altitudes]). Finns and other Ugric peoples, Basques, etc. However, these are the outliers and I look to other explanations for the survival of G-L497 as it seems to be the odd haplogroup of the "black sheep" haplogroups of Europe: G2a/I1/I2/J2/E1b1b

    The idea is to shed light on why G-L497 was spared and held in high-esteem. Was it due to their metallurgical skills? I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this matter.
    Last edited by PaterKeklos; 03-09-19 at 17:45.

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