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Thread: Rome as a genetic melting pot: Population dynamics over 12,000 years.

  1. #126
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    @Chris My Top 2 relatives at 23andme were Kristen C.... and P... C... (father and child).

    non credo che ..., ma l’ho detto lo stesso in caso sei tu :)

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    I have just ordered a IZ58 SNP pack at FTDNA and I'm waiting for the results. They should arrive on the end of November.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    @Chris My Top 2 relatives at 23andme were Kristen C.... and P... C... (father and child).

    non credo che ..., ma l’ho detto lo stesso in caso sei tu :)
    wait ... It could also be Christa, he’s a Pugliese, paesano di Jovialis.

    @Christa, se ci sei batti un colpo :)

    terzo cugino ???

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    No I'm sorry it's not me! I'm on 23and me but my father is on Ftdna

    Mi dispiace..io mi chiamo Cristina e sono di Firenze☺

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sorry, are you asking about your maternal J1? That's a perfectly typical neolithic farmer MtDna found all over Europe.

    If you're asking about a ydna "I" in Toscana, there are numerous possibilities.

    This "leak" or rumour about an Etruscan yDna "I" is, as yet, unconfirmed. We'll have to wait and see what it was like.
    Thank you Angela. I was asking about "I" because I'm very thrilled about the possibility that it could be etruscan instead of german

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    wait ... It could also be Christa, he’s a Pugliese, paesano di Jovialis.

    @Christa, se ci sei batti un colpo :)

    terzo cugino ???
    I think that person is a t-roll.

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    @Chris Thank you so much for your answer.
    Grazie Mille :)

    @Jovialis I had a few conversations in Italian with him by PM months ago.
    I didn't get that vibe from him, but maybe you know him better than I do.

    ... too bad

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    Sorry i did not really follow this topic, but anybody knows if the Romans samples will be compared to different populations of ancient Italy? Typical exemples would be, Ancient Ligurians, Ancient Venetians, Cisalpino Gauls, Etruscans, Latins, Umbrians and Greeks. I'm not sure if it's the conclusion, but i have hard time to believe Etruscans and Romans ancestry mirrors the entire ancient Italy. Neolithic, Iranian and Steppe ancestries are too broad to give any conclusions for the history of Rome.

    Also do they really have a Roman sample dated to 12'000 BC?

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    My understanding is that all the samples in this particular paper come from the environs of the city of Rome.

    It is therefore not a study on the genetics of the Italian people.

    Rather, at the most it might be a timeline (with big gaps) of samples buried in the vicinity of Rome.

    Interesting, no doubt, but not what I've been hanging around for...


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    wait ... It could also be Christa, he’s a Pugliese, paesano di Jovialis.
    Off-topic, but what are odds that Italians with surname Pugliese trace back to Puglia? Or, as ever, are things way too complicated to say or even speculate? I realize that Pugliese in Southern Italy is like Smith in the USA . . . .

  11. #136
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    Okay, so rumours about Early Romans being South Italian-like are not confirmed.

    This PCA shows Republican Era Romans in Latium were probably like modern Piedmontese (North-West Italians):

    Only during the Imperial Era mass migration from East Mediterranean changed it:

    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/708



    Pre-Imperial samples range from 900 BCE to 27 BCE and genetics did not change much in that period. Rome was founded in 753 BCE. Median age of these samples is given as "320 BCE Roman Republic" (map):



    BTW, soon another paper with ancient DNA from other regions of Italy (outside of Latium) should be published.

    This paper had only DNA from the city of Rome and surrounding areas within the present-day region of Latium.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Some people have problems with chronology and claim that Pre-Imperial samples are "early Latins, not Romans". Samples from 900-27 BCE, so only 150 years before and over 700 years after foundation of Rome (753 BCE).

    They are, clearly, Romans from times when Rome was a Kingdom and a Republic:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Kingdom (753-509 BCE)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Republic (509-27 BCE)

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    Don't double post please:

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...me-Paper/page3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    @Tomenable
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post

    Take a look at figure C in the chart provided by Angela, these are the rustic native Italian peasantry that re-populated this part of Italy. They look overwhelmingly Southern Italian-like to me, with some Northern Italian-like people, in the mix. These kinds of people mixed in the middle ages, and pulled them slightly more north to where central Italians are today.

    Isola Sacra was a necropolis for immigrants. There is a northern cluster of the Imperial samples that matches with these samples from Villa Magna. I think it is rather that Imperial era native Italians were formed out of the Romans expanding into an already Iran-like rich population in the south (Magna Grecia, and Bronze-Age South Italians). While these exotic people, in these places like Isola Sacra were these South of southern Italian-like people, who disappeared after the end of the Imperial era.


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