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It's based on samples from Corded Ware, BB, and early Bronze southern Germany. I'm trying to figure out some way of getting access to the whole paper.
See:
Alissa Mittnick et al (Krause and Haak)
https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...cience.aax6219
"Abstract
Revealing and understanding the mechanisms behind social inequality in prehistoric societies is a major challenge. By combining genome wide data, isotopic evidence as well as anthropological and archaeological data, we go beyond the dominating supra-regional approaches in archaeogenetics to shed light on the complexity of social status, inheritance rules and mobility during the Bronze Age. We apply a deep micro-regional approach and analyze genome wide data of 104 human individuals deriving from farmstead-related cemeteries from the Late Neolithic to the Middle Bronze Age in southern Germany. Our results reveal that individual households lasting several generations consisted of a high-status core family and unrelated low-status individuals, a social organization accompanied by patrilocality and female exogamy, and the stability of this system over 700 years."
Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità . Oriana Fallaci
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it's in line with what they already found out about megalithic farmers
and it probably already existed long before
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Exactly.
Story as old as time...well, practically.
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Razib Khan posted a graphic.
As we've discussed before, all the initial talk about "wipe outs" or replacements as the result of steppe intrusion were very overblown. At least in Southern Germany, already by the Middle Bronze Age steppe ancestry was down to what, 27%? Add in the WHG, and these people were still majority Anatolian Neolithic, something like a 60% Anatolian Neolithic/40% other split.
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Something that has dissapeared can't come back.Originally Posted by Angela
Razib Khan posted a graphic.
As we've discussed before, all the initial talk about "wipe outs" or replacements as the result of steppe intrusion were very overblown. At least in Southern Germany, already by the Middle Bronze Age steppe ancestry was down to what, 27%? Add in the WHG, and these people were still majority Anatolian Neolithic, something like a 60% Anatolian Neolithic/40% other split.
So it didn't dissapear. But maybe it became invisible for the record.
Maybe the record are just elite burials.
And after time local DNA seeped through to the elite.
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table : 1 in supplemental
y haplogroup and mtdna types in lech valley
on y haplogroup: i see majority r1b and 3G cases and some I
https://i.imgur.com/UFp4EtP.png
continue of this table :
https://i.imgur.com/BLxURpf.png
https://i.imgur.com/Ztdb8PO.png
Last edited by kingjohn; 13-10-19 at 21:27.
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i think of the CT/ BT cases could infact be j2 or other G
so those CT /BTcases are probably low coverage individuals
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For quick reference of geographic locations, cultures, and haplogroups...
# Sample Name Country analysis label genetics Cluster PCA/Admixture genetic sex mtDNA haplogroup Y haplogroup genetic comments 1 AY2001.A0101.TF1.1 Russia Steppe Maykop Steppe F T2e 2 AY2003.A0101.TF1.1 Russia Steppe Maykop Steppe F H2a1 3 I1720 Russia Maykop Caucasus M HV ? 4 BU2001.A0101 Russia North Caucasus Steppe M R1b1a2a2 5 GW1001.A0101 Russia North Caucasus Steppe M U2e1b R1b1a2a2 6 I1723 Russia North Caucasus Steppe M U5b2a1a R1b1a1a2a 7 IV3002.A0101 Russia Steppe Maykop outlier Steppe M X1'2'3 ? 8 KBD001 Russia Late North Caucasus Steppe M I4a R1b1a2 2nd degree relative of KBD002 9 KBD002.A0101 Russia Late North Caucasus Steppe F W1+119 2nd degree relative of KBD001 10 ARM001.A0101 Armenia Kura-Araxes Caucasus F R1a1 11 ARM002.A0101; ARM003 Armenia Kura-Araxes Caucasus M K3 G2b same individual, merge bams! 12 I6268 Russia Maykop Novosvobodnaya Caucasus M R1a J2a1 13 I6267 Russia Maykop Novosvobodnaya Caucasus F T2c1 14 I6270 Russia Maykop Novosvobodnaya Caucasus M U1b ? 15 I6266 Russia Maykop Novosvobodnaya Caucasus M X2f J2a1 16 I6272 Russia Maykop Novosvobodnaya Caucasus M U1b1 G2a2a 17 KDC001.A0101 Russia MBA North Caucasus Caucasus M X2i J2b 18 KDC002.A0101 Russia MBA North Caucasus Caucasus F HV1a1 19 LYG001.A0101 Russia North Caucasus Steppe M H13a1a2 R1b1a2 20 I2051 Russia Dolmen LBA Caucasus M H6a1a2a J 21 MK3003.A0101 Russia Catacomb Steppe F U4a2 22 MK5012.A0101 Russia Catacomb Steppe M U5a1b1e ? 23 MK5008.B0101 Russia Late Maykop Caucasus M T1a2 ? 42K SNPs 24 MK5004 Russia Late Maykop Caucasus M T2al L 2nd degree relative of MK5001 25 MK5001 Russia Late Maykop Caucasus M K1a4 L 2nd degree relative of MK5004 26 MK5007.B0101 Russia Maykop Caucasus M U5a1b1 27 MK5009.A0101 Russia North Caucasus Steppe M R1a1a R1b1a2 28 MK5005.C0101 Russia Steppe Maykop Steppe F two lineages Steppe Maykop , but mtDNA contamination 29 NV3001 Russia Lola Steppe M R1b Q1a2 30 OSS002.B0101 Russia Maykop Caucasus M I5 J X contaminated ! 31 OSS001.A0101 Russia Maykop Caucasus F J2a1 32 PG2001 Russia Eneolithic steppe Steppe M I3a R1b1 33 PG2004 Russia Eneolithic steppe Steppe M H2 R1b1 34 PG2002.A0101 Russia North Caucasus Steppe F U1a1a3 35 RK1003.C0101 Russia North Caucasus Steppe F R1a1a 36 RK1007.A0101 Russia Yamnaya Caucasus Steppe F T2a1 37 RK1001.C0101 Russia Yamnaya Caucasus Steppe M U5a1d R1b1a2 38 RK4002.B0101 Russia Catacomb Steppe M U4d3 R1b1a2 39 RK4001.A0101 Russia Catacomb Steppe M U5a1i R1b1a2 40 SA6003.B0101 Russia Catacomb Steppe M U2e3a R1b1a2 41 SA6001.A0101 Russia Steppe Maykop Steppe F U7b 42 SA6004 Russia Steppe Maykop Steppe M U7b Q1a2 43 SA6013.B0101 Russia Steppe Maykop outlier Steppe M I5b R1 44 SA6010.A0101 Russia Yamnaya Caucasus Steppe M U5a1g ? 45 I6278 Russia Dolmen BA Caucasus M T1a2 .. 46 I6281 Russia Dolmen BA Caucasus F U2e1 .. 47 SIJ003.A0101 Russia Late Maykop Caucasus F U4c1 1st degree relative of SIJ002, 1st degree relative of SIJ001 48 SIJ002.A0101 Russia Late Maykop Caucasus M U4c1 L 1st degree relative of SIJ003, 2nd degree relative of SIJ001 49 SIJ001.A01(SA6002.A01) Russia Late Maykop Caucasus F U4c1 1st degree relative of SIJ003, 2nd degree relative of SIJ002 50 I2055 Russia Eneolithic Caucasus Caucasus M R1a J 1st degree relative of I2056 51 I2056 Russia Eneolithic Caucasus Caucasus M R1a J2a 52 I1722 Russia Eneolithic Caucasus Caucasus F R1a 1st degree relative of I2056 53 VEK006.A0101 Russia Kura-Araxes Caucasus F U4a2 1st/2nd degree relative of VEK007/VEK009? 54 VEK007.A0101; VEK009 Russia Kura-Araxes Caucasus M U4a2 J1 VEK007=VEK009, merge bams, 2nd degree relative of VEK006? 55 VEK008.A0101 Russia Kura-Araxes Caucasus M U4a2 ? 56 VJ1001 Russia Eneolithic steppe Steppe F T2a1b 57 I2057 Russia Maykop Caucasus U Questionable, coverage too low 58 ZO2002.C0101 Russia Yamnaya Caucasus Steppe F [email protected]
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I would suggest checking the archaeological information for status versus non status burials and then comparing to yDna before jumping to all sorts of conclusions.
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Not with Hunter Gatherers, I suppose
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double post
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I'm not so sure.
What happened to all the C that the Paleolithic Europeans carried once the I2 "Mesolithic" men arrived? There's barely a trace of that Paleolithic HG genetic material left in Europeans.
We could also take a look at what happened to Neanderthals.
Almost makes me rethink the whole "toxic masculinity" thing.
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Yes, that was my point, as it was my point way back when the Haak paper first came out when I said the title of the paper was probably over the top and they might come to regret it as an overstatement.
You only had to look at the percentages of Anatolian Neolithic in modern central and northwestern Europe. There was no new colonization. It had to have been there all along, although the female/male skew in uniparentals tells its own tale.
The only places in Europe where Anatolian Neolithic drops way down are in Northeastern Europe where practically no one was living before the arrival of the steppe people.
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i am a little surprised that there is no E
not even the european e-v13 ?????
in the table 1 i posted
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I've always wondered whether the E-V13 in Southern Germany, Austria and the Tyrol, and the corresponding high levels of "Dinarics" phenotypically was the result of hangovers from the Neolithic Age or whether it was Roman Era incursion. Perhaps for uniparentals it's more the latter. There's also all those very "Roman" looking ancient samples in Szolad to consider. I'm closer to them than to a lot of modern Italian populations.
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The earliest populations are on the bottom of the dogpile of population replacement. Using a 90/10 split for each fused population after a successful demic replacement, the original host population genetics remaining would work out this way:
Pop A (prior to first wave)-- 100%
100 * .1
After first wave-- 10%
10 * .1
After second wave-- 1%
1 * .1
After third wave-- .1%
There is likely very little left from homo sapien sapien populations from Paleolthic, maybe nothing from Neanderthals of Western Europe, for this reason.
Most of our Neanderthal was picked up >60 kya in the Levant as part of the founder OOA population. The Neanderthal of <30 kya in Western Europe may have been annihilated without genetic issue at this point. There's barely a trace of Paleolithic hunter gatherers, a little bit more for the more recent mesolthic migrants, and then more from Neolithic and Bronze Age newcomers. Now, there are new major demic movements, birth rate differences among populations, etc. It goes on and on. Right now, Paleolithic Europeans' genetic legacy is on the bottom of the dog pile (Western European Neanderthal already crushed beneath them) and new pops are piling on everyday. Sorry to see them go.
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You have some objection to statements of fact, Messier? You have some data which contradicts the above?Razib Khan posted a graphic.
As we've discussed before, all the initial talk about "wipe outs" or replacements as the result of steppe intrusion were very overblown. At least in Southern Germany, already by the Middle Bronze Age steppe ancestry was down to what, 27%? Add in the WHG, and these people were still majority Anatolian Neolithic, something like a 60% Anatolian Neolithic/40% other split.
Do share.
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Peasants, whose elites had been lopped off. Tenants, not slaves, who owed a portion of their production to their "laird".
"I think Marija's 'kurgan hypothesis' has been magnificently vindicated by recent work." --Lord Colin Renfrew, 4/18/2018.
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a bit simplistic, isnt it?
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Sort of like your response. That post wasn't meant to be more than a simplified illustration of how the genetic contribution of original inhabitants diminishes or even perishes following successive migrations of later populations, each with reproductive advantages to the current, native populations they are subsuming. What do you want, an essay?
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IE tribes who colonized W.Europe themselves were minority lineage in E.Europe so how did they manage to wipe out the local farmers to near extinction? IMHO it must have been founder effect of small tribe at the top of the power pyramid becoming dominant lineage over time instead of local farmer tribes being killed by invaders because its extremely hard to wage war from village to village which must have spread over thousands of miles of area. So popular beliefs of polygamy, mass killings of locals by new settlers in BA must be completely wrong for local farmers could have had advantage of 10-1 in numbers which would make it extremely strong defense-wise. When we talk of complete dominance of ydna E-M81 in N.Africa we always say founder effect phenomena yet in IEs case I don't know why people come to baseless conclusions of things like polygamy, mass murders which holds no weight IMHO. I even question the Yamna connection of bronze age IE settlers because they could well be from southern Balkans who could have been farmers themselves migrating with the ydna G tribes but in extremely low numbers we see some Caucasian admixture together with farmer admixture in Neolithic Balkans too so its not just yamna who possessed Caucasian admixture. If questoins of how 1% of population could become half of population without much bloodshed then please study Mtdna H's history in Europe which from 1% in Mesolithic became 22% in Neolithic then 44% in Iron age wow!
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So how come the farmer mtDna survived but the farmer yDna didn't?
It won't wash, friend.
Plus, it didn't just happen in Europe, it happened all over the world: Africa, Near East (not lots of G2a there except in the strongholds of the mountains is there?), China, Japan, you name it.
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Not an essay, of course. But this "mathematic" approach of yours was very theorical. But thanks, I think I catched your reasoning. Was it necessary to us under this naked form? No problem. I see you have some kind of humor (a bit acid?).
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I thought scenarios in which IE tribes inter-marrying with farmer tribes on equal bases(ydna, mtdna equally transmitted) then one tribe gets purely accidental reproductive advantage due to many social aspects like higher social standing, hierarchy which encourages population growth as in Amish, Hutterites finally result in skewed ydna\mtdna in the population who then become dominant, let's see today R1b lineage is not utterly dominant they just make 51% of the population. My doubts arose because early R1b subclades were so rare in BA only in later times they expanded several centuries after initial settlement.
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