Left Wing Authoritarianism in Eastern Europe

[Angela]

Just received a warning and infraction from Angela for Insulting another member 'ie Angela' . It seems she can insult my country, and people none stop, yet she cannot take a joke... Freedom of expression and speach is exactly what she fails to understand regarding the topics here.

Just when did I insult your country and people? Chamberlain was English but he was also a racist, and there were other English racists like him, just like we had Italian racists like Roberto Farinacci and Giovanni Preziosi.

You don't get to insult people for posting FACTS. Get it?

It just occurred to me; you probably thought I meant Neville Chamberlain. It's pretty said when I know your history better than you do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housto...rt_Chamberlain

If I removed or sanctioned people for opinions which I consider faulty, i.e. lacking in information or logic, three quarters of the posters would be removed or sanctioned. This isn't Anthrogenica, where you can be banned permanently for posting unpopular opinions or for other flimsy reasons.

You have to really act up to get banned here, but you're well on the road.

Do it again and you're out of here.

[Jovialis]

Just when did I insult your country and people? Chamberlain was English but he was also a racist, and there were other English racists like him, just like we had Italian racists like Roberto Farinacci and Giovanni Preziosi.

You don't get to insult people for posting FACTS. Get it?

It just occurred to me; you probably thought I meant Neville Chamberlain. It's pretty said when I know your history better than you do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housto...rt_Chamberlain

If I removed or sanctioned people for opinions which I consider faulty, i.e. lacking in information or logic, three quarters of the posters would be removed or sanctioned. This isn't Anthrogenica, where you can be banned permanently for posting unpopular opinions or for other flimsy reasons.

You have to really act up to get banned here, but you're well on the road.

Do it again and you're out of here.

Indeed, I had just experienced how pathetically ignorant the mentally disturbed user known as Azzuro/Principe/Sikeliot/Tz85 can be in a forum where he is allow to shout down any facts posted against his sophistry. :

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....blooded/page27

He even goes as far as denial of mass genocide of Jewish people, to prove his ridiculous claim that Jews some how make up the bedrock of South Italian genetics. When pressed for proof, he posts links to blogs, rather than peer-reviewed academic papers, from any reputable sources. Sad and Ignorant, indeed.

He sort of reminds me of the notorious t-roll, Joshua Goldberg, who was arrested by the FBI. He also used the tactics of utilizing many socks, that would actually argue with one another. He thinks that he is slick, but it is rather obvious:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg

[Jovialis]

Indeed, I had just experienced how pathetically ignorant the mentally disturbed user known as Azzuro/Principe/Sikeliot/Tz85 can be in a forum where he is allow to shout down any facts posted against his sophistry. :

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....blooded/page27

He even goes as far as denial of mass genocide of Jewish people, to prove his ridiculous claim that Jews some how make up the bedrock of South Italian genetics. When pressed for proof, he posts links to blogs, rather than peer-reviewed academic papers, from any reputable sources. Sad and Ignorant, indeed.

He sort of reminds me of the notorious t-roll, Joshua Goldberg, who was arrested by the FBI. He also used the tactics of utilizing many socks, that would actually argue with one another. He thinks that he is slick, but it is rather obvious:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg

Perhaps Ruderico would like to explain to us how moderation on Anthrogenica works. He has an account here, and I know for a fact he oversaw the discussion.

My joining was an experiment to see if certain members, and certain ethnic groups are held to a different standard on Anthrogenica, thus far it seems to be the case for Italians. But I am giving him a chance to explain himself. I did not see their moderation staff intervene when I was being insulted for posting academic papers.

[davef]

I'm amazed that moderation allowed that "italians don't exist only Sardinians are pure" thread to persist without deleting it and punishing the guy who created that garbage. That's blatantly racist but I guess that sort of thing is allowed there if it targets Italians

[paul333]

Just when did I insult your country and people? Chamberlain was English but he was also a racist, and there were other English racists like him, just like we had Italian racists like Roberto Farinacci and Giovanni Preziosi.

You don't get to insult people for posting FACTS. Get it?

It just occurred to me; you probably thought I meant Neville Chamberlain. It's pretty said when I know your history better than you do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housto...rt_Chamberlain

If I removed or sanctioned people for opinions which I consider faulty, i.e. lacking in information or logic, three quarters of the posters would be removed or sanctioned. This isn't Anthrogenica, where you can be banned permanently for posting unpopular opinions or for other flimsy reasons.

You have to really act up to get banned here, but you're well on the road.

Do it again and you're out of here.

I don't think you could possibly know my history better than I do. yes I did believe you were refering to Neville Chamberlain.

Since I joined this forum I am aware that you seem to insult many people every week, you give it plenty, but cannot take it.

You remind me of Nurse Ratched in one flew over the Cuckoo's nest.........LOL.

[Angela]

You asked for it, you got it, "Paul".

Now go and join all the other whiners who lie about being banned for their opinions.

[Angela]

Perhaps Ruderico would like to explain to us how moderation on Anthrogenica works. He has an account here, and I know for a fact he oversaw the discussion.

My joining was an experiment to see if certain members, and certain ethnic groups are held to a different standard on Anthrogenica, thus far it seems to be the case for Italians. But I am giving him a chance to explain himself. I did not see their moderation staff intervene when I was being insulted for posting academic papers.

Don't hold your breath. They're a bunch of hypocrites there. Anyone who dares to question their orthodoxy on whatever subject is banned no matter how polite the commentary.

Notorious posters, on the other hand, can post under any number of sock accounts with impunity.

That's why I have never posted there in my life. They're not interested in a fair debate; they're afraid of exposing their ignorance and bias, no doubt.

We, on the other hand, get castigated if we ban notorious hate speech or blatant insults.

I mean, look at this case. The poster doesn't know his own history well enough to know there's more than one famous Chamberlain, but instead of asking for clarification he lets fly with the insults.

You really couldn't make it up.

[Jovialis]

Don't hold your breath. They're a bunch of hypocrites there. Anyone who dares to question their orthodoxy on whatever subject is banned no matter how polite the commentary.

Notorious posters, on the other hand, can post under any number of sock accounts with impunity.

That's why I have never posted there in my life. They're not interested in a fair debate; they're afraid of exposing their ignorance and bias, no doubt.

We, on the other hand, get castigated if we ban notorious hate speech or blatant insults.

I mean, look at this case. The poster doesn't know his own history well enough to know there's more than one famous Chamberlain, but instead of asking for clarification he lets fly with the insults.

You really couldn't make it up.

It seems like a who's who of rejects and reprobates from across the population genetics forum world. Many of which have been banned from this site, for their shameful behavior. They are indeed terrified of exposing their inability to respond when I press them on various issues. Instead they lie about samples, and their origin, until I verify that I am correct. Then the thread is dead silent. This last thread however was met with obfuscation, and ad hominems against me. These ignorant fanatics will believe only what they want to believe.

[Ailchu]

Edwin Black is an American syndicated columnist and investigative journalist.

American Society of Journalists and Authors Best Nonfiction Investigative Book of the year for , 2003.

& The California connection...

https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/artic...ia-2549771.php

the idea isn't really new but maybe this all gained popularity due to the theories of darwin and mendel. people started to apply these findings to humans. but noone really understood how genetics really work and it was mixed with the contemporary racial concepts and models.

maybe nietzsche was also influenced by this, and so he thought that certain populations have certain beneficial traits and through mixing these groups you can create the ubermensch.

it certainly wasn't just a nazi thing and had many supporters throughout europe too. churchill for example.

[Ailchu]

Mussolini fashioned fascism, a fact of which I'm not proud, but the Germans added the racism, anti-semitism, mass enslavement and killing. So, I suppose it's easier for his daughter to try to whitewash him.

that's a little bit too simple imo. mussolini was talking about race and eugenics long before hitler and the nazis had any power over him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia...ism_and_racism

mussolini in 1920, when the nsdap just started to exist:

"When dealing with such a race as Slavic - inferior and barbarian - we must not pursue the carrot, but the stick policy.... We should not be afraid of new victims.... The Italian border should run across the Brenner Pass, Monte Nevoso and the Dinaric Alps.... I would say we can easily sacrifice 500,000 barbaric Slavs for 50,000 Italians...."

"In a 1921 speech in Bologna, Mussolini stated, "Fascism was born... out of a profound, perennial need of this our Aryan race"

he also supported the nazi party with money during their rise to power and i believe the nazi party was racist and antisemitic from the start.

also don't forget the italian concentration camps in the balkans and the support coming from the italian police and population in hunting jewish people in regions occupied by the nazis/mussolinis puppet state.
fascism may not be inherently racist but it is extremely fertile ground for such sentiments. and mussolini used these sentiments for his benefit. this didn't just all come from the nazis.

[Angela]

that's a little bit too simple imo. mussolini was talking about race and eugenics long before hitler and the nazis had any power over him.

mussolini in 1920, the nsdap just started to exist, :"When dealing with such a race as Slavic - inferior and barbarian - we must not pursue the carrot, but the stick policy.... We should not be afraid of new victims.... The Italian border should run across the Brenner Pass, Monte Nevoso and the Dinaric Alps.... I would say we can easily sacrifice 500,000 barbaric Slavs for 50,000 Italians...."

he also supported the nazi party with money during their rise to power and i think the nazi party was racist and antisemitic from the start.

also don't forget the italian concentration camps in the balkans and the support coming from the italian police and population in hunting jewish people in regions occupied by the nazis through mussolinis puppet state.
fascism may not be inherently racist but it is extremely fertile ground for such sentiments. and mussolini used these sentiments for his benefit.

I would agree with the bolded comment, but not the general tenor of your comment.

Anti-Semitic laws were passed in Italy, there were Italian anti-Semites who were members of the Italian Fascist Party, most of the atrocities perpetrated against civilians after 1943 couldn't have been committed without the help of Italian fascist sympathizers of the Nazis.

All of that I have never denied; in fact, I posted about a lot of it myself, before anyone else had ever mentioned it, so I don't quite get what you're driving at...

However, there is no comparison between the attitude of the general Italian populace toward Jews, and that of the German one, which is why so many of Italy's Jews survived. Most of our Jews were saved because average Italian people, including priests and nuns, couldn't stomach what was going on. That didn't happen in Germany.

You also just can't get around the fact that not a single Jew was deported from Italy until after the German occupation. Nor can you get around the fact that the Italian armed forces, armed forces who were brutally butchered by their former German allies after 1943, created safe havens for Jews in a number of European countries.

A deliberate policy to exterminate men, women, and children could never have been conceived of in Italy, period. Even the Germans knew it, which is why they kept them out of it.

Just look at the treatment of homosexuals: internal exile, while deplorable, is a lot different than being sent to a death camp. Or look at the treatment of political opponents. Some were killed clandestinely, but there wasn't a mass round up and herding them off to a gas chamber. Most of the time, again, it was internal exile. Out of one of them came "Christ Stopped At Ebobi".

I don't think anything that Italians might have done in the Balkans begins to compare with what they have done to each other, and that barely a generation ago, so I don't know where you're going with that, either.

All in all, it's a complicated, ambivalent story. Nobody's hands are completely clean in this story, but it is indeed not so simple as to make moral equivalencies everywhere. There are a number of excellent books on the subject, if you're really interested, some by understandably bitter Jews.

[[email protected]]

I think we've lost the thread of the original post . . .

[Ailchu]

All of that I have never denied; in fact, I posted about a lot of it myself, before anyone else had ever mentioned it, so I don't quite get what you're driving at...

i wasn't talking about the overall italian population but about mussolini and fascists. your opinion was that racism, antisemitism, killing and enslavement was added to fascism by the nazis. this simply isn't true.
also i wasn't talking about antisemitism in particular and never compared it to german antisemitism. so i don't know why i "shouldn't get around" the fact that the italians didn't deport the jews to deathcamps until under german occupation and that the holocoust never happened in italy to the same extent as it did in germany.

I don't think anything that Italians might have done in the Balkans begins to compare with what they have done to each other, and that barely a generation ago, so I don't know where you're going with that, either.

i honestly don't see where you are going with this either. what matters is what italian fascism did to these people. noone was really punished in the end. the allies didn't want to strenghten the communists. the same thing in germany.
do you think that is fair because 50 years later there would be a racist/ethnic war with many deaths in the balkans again?

or if you want to make comparisons why compare it to a war that happened 50 years later? why not compare it to what nazi germany did to the italian population?
what happened throgh nazi german hands in italy at that time is certainly not worse than what happened through fascist italian hands in the balkans. does that make it better?
"One of Roatta's soldiers wrote home on 1 July 1942: "We have destroyed everything from top to bottom without sparing the innocent. We kill entire families every night, beating them to death or shooting them.""

"In early July 1942, Italian troops operating opposite Fiume, were reported to have shot and killed 800 Croat and Slovene civilians and burned down 20 houses near Split on the Dalmatian coast.[13] Later that month, the Italian Air Force was reported to have practically destroyed four Yugoslav villages and killed hundreds of civilians in revenge for a local guerrilla attack that resulted in the death of two high-ranking officers."

[Angela]

i wasn't talking about the overall italian population but about mussolini and fascists. your opinion was that racism, antisemitism, killing and enslavement was added to fascism by the nazis. this simply isn't true.
also i wasn't talking about antisemitism in particular and never compared it to german antisemitism. so i don't know why i "shouldn't get around" the fact that the italians didn't deport the jews to deathcamps until under german occupation and that the holocoust never happened in italy to the same extent as it did in germany.



i honestly don't see where you are going with this either. what matters is what italian fascism did to these people. noone was really punished in the end. the allies didn't want to strenghten the communists. the same thing in germany.
do you think that is fair because 50 years later there would be a racist/ethnic war with many deaths in the balkans again?

or if you want to make comparisons why compare it to a war that happened 50 years later? why not compare it to what nazi germany did to the italian population?
what happened throgh nazi german hands in italy at that time is certainly not worse than what happened through fascist italian hands in the balkans. does that make it better?
"One of Roatta's soldiers wrote home on 1 July 1942: "We have destroyed everything from top to bottom without sparing the innocent. We kill entire families every night, beating them to death or shooting them.""

"In early July 1942, Italian troops operating opposite Fiume, were reported to have shot and killed 800 Croat and Slovene civilians and burned down 20 houses near Split on the Dalmatian coast.[13] Later that month, the Italian Air Force was reported to have practically destroyed four Yugoslav villages and killed hundreds of civilians in revenge for a local guerrilla attack that resulted in the death of two high-ranking officers."

The difference between us is that I own what individual Italians have done. I don't know how many times I'm supposed to say it. The latest time is on this very thread. You and the other people from the Balkans on this site have yet to do it, both about what was done in World War II and what was done more recently.

As for Italian Fascism, I don't have time to school you on it. Read some books, and not ones published in the Balkans.

[Jovialis]

Because of the neoliberal consensus between Republican elites and the Clinton-moderate wing of the Democratic party I have, for at least most of my adulthood (which legally began at 6:19 am June 25, 1996) seen right-left conflict more in the prism of social/cultural views as well as foreign policy rather than economics, so I tend to view things like the IVF affair as being right-wing, given that it is most likely supported by the Catholic Church (Francis' two predecessors being widely viewed as more friendly to the right-wing, especially in cultural affairs). But I think that there is a fairly stark dichotomy between the old Warsaw Pact states and 'the west of Europe' in that the middle and upper classes have been affected since the 50s with, in Germany, war guilt for starting World War 2 and trying to kill all the Jews, and the other countries of the core West, colonialism-guilt. So whereas in the West all but the far-right will gladly absorb economic migrants/refugees from non-European ethnicities, the East suffers not the self-hate complex and has the view of 'why should we allow thousands of foreigners in here? What have they to offer us?'

I recommend the following thread to you. Evidence shows that communism caused dysgenics in eastern Europe, which depressed IQ rates.

Study results suggest genetic influence on social outcomes greater in meritocratic than communistic societies:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post587039

Original article:
https://phys.org/news/2018-04-result...s-greater.html

[Jovialis]

I should add, that a change in genetic influence relative to success was noted in eastern Europe, when the systems changed. It is better to award success based on merit, rather than according to need, as a general philosophy.