"Tombs of the family of Alexander the Great finally giving up their secrets"

[dosas]

I'd like to point out that we have samples from the Classical Age, post-dating the 'Dorian Descent'. The sample Empuries2 is plotting almost identical to the Mycenean samples average, you can check it out with a simple run of VahaduoJS using the G25 co-ordinates (I know these are frowned upon on this board but still):

Target: GRC_Mycenaean Distance: 2.6188% / 0.02618803
86.0	GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
14.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 Distance: 2.3343% / 0.02334315
86.2	GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
13.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

So the Classical Age Greek from the Empuries colony is almost identical to the Mycenean sample average, post-dating the Bronze Age Collapse. Of course, that is one sample, but it's one step closer to uncovering the truth.

[blevins13]

How you get from what he said to what you concluded is beyond me. You have to disconnect your hyper-patriotism and ethnic hatred of people, Greeks, who are your "cousins" genetically, at least some of them, and actually reason from what was said.

Do you have an ancient Paenonian sample? An ancient "Dorian" sample which you people also always argue about? How about a certifiable Macedonian sample?

When you have them we can compare all of them, including Mycenaean samples, and samples from the appropriate places just north of actual Greece, and from Classical Era Greece, and then we'd know wouldn't we?

What would you do if it upends everything you thought, as has happened to the pro-Herodotus supporters, for example? Would you accept the scientific evidence or would you try to find some way to deny it.

I don't see mainland Greeks having a nervous breakdown because the Islanders are closer to the Mycenaeans than they are.

You really have to get a grip.

Not everything we were told in kindergarten is true. Sad, in some cases, but the reality.

You insult another poster or you insult me, it's still worthy of an infraction.

That's the only recourse you seem to have.

Post FACTS, verifiable facts, and accept the facts posted by others and you'd have no problems here.

I don’t hate Greeks, I hate lies.....as for facts here is one: Greek government does not allows Genetic testing on a Macedonian grave. This is the fact that I am discussing about. For me this is shameful period.
This might be insulting to someone but that is not my problem, infractions for this are welcomed, sometime a point has to be made.

Thanks for doing my profile as well, I enjoyed it, far away from the truth .....but good try.



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[Johane Derite]

It's best we just focus on the details of this thread. I think it's important to have mtdna, ydna, and audna. Any of these without the other paints an incomplete picture about populations we are studying. Mtdna and ydna is especially useful for dynasties. If Argead dynasty ends up being some celtic Y-dna, that would change everything wouldn't it

[aleph]

"Tomb I could not have housed Phillip the II, and the results further weaken the argument that Arrhidaeus was entombed in Tomb II"

Probably the most indirect way of saying that Phillip II is most likely in tomb II.

[Angela]

I don’t hate Greeks, I hate lies.....as for facts here is one: Greek government does not allows Genetic testing on a Macedonian grave. This is the fact that I am discussing about. For me this is shameful period.
This might be insulting to someone but that is not my problem, infractions for this are welcomed, sometime a point has to be made.

Thanks for doing my profile as well, I enjoyed it, far away from the truth .....but good try.



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Great. I heard you. We all heard you. If you post it again and again, it's spamming.

Plus, our Greek poster didn't even address that. You and Laberia and some others never, ever, address the actual FACTS, the actual GENETICS, because they either don't yet exist, or they're not in your favor, so instead you resort to this sort of invective.

I'm sure international labs will be investigating all of this and then we don't have to hear any more of it.

As for yDna versus autosomal, the yDna is sometimes of limited usefulness. Somerled probably carried R1a, the dna of the invading Scandinavians; it doesn't make him any less who he was or his achievements for his people any less.

[LABERIA]

Great. I heard you. We all heard you. If you post it again and again, it's spamming.

Plus, our Greek poster didn't even address that. You and Laberia and some others never, ever, address the actual FACTS, the actual GENETICS, because they either don't yet exist, or they're not in your favor, so instead you resort to this sort of invective.

I'm sure international labs will be investigating all of this and then we don't have to hear any more of it.

As for yDna versus autosomal, the yDna is sometimes of limited usefulness. Somerled probably carried R1a, the dna of the invading Scandinavians; it doesn't make him any less who he was or his achievements for his people any less.

Leave me out of your scientific discussion. Is it possible?

[blevins13]

Great. I heard you. We all heard you. If you post it again and again, it's spamming.

Plus, our Greek poster didn't even address that. You and Laberia and some others never, ever, address the actual FACTS, the actual GENETICS, because they either don't yet exist, or they're not in your favor, so instead you resort to this sort of invective.

I'm sure international labs will be investigating all of this and then we don't have to hear any more of it.

As for yDna versus autosomal, the yDna is sometimes of limited usefulness. Somerled probably carried R1a, the dna of the invading Scandinavians; it doesn't make him any less who he was or his achievements for his people any less.

I did not know that genetic was not in my favor? But what is my favor?



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[Nik]

I did not know that genetic was not in my favor? But what is my favor?



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Leave her man, I received 3 infractions for no reason. She cannot wait for you to keep speaking to her she can ban you and all the other Albanians for the slightest thing. Just do your thing and ignore her and of course, don't criticize or question her modern Greek either.

Alexander might have been half Epirote and 1/4th Illyrian, but you're not allowed to be interested in his family's genetic test unless you're a Greek. If you are indeed interested, you're an ultra nationalist, spammer, provocative, and deserve to be banned. This is probably my last post hahahah

[Angela]

Actually 2 infractions, Nik, NOW it's 3.

Keep it up.

[Angela]

Leave me out of your scientific discussion. Is it possible?

If you're not interested in the application of science to these questions then you don't belong here.

[LABERIA]

If you're not interested in the application of science to these questions then you don't belong here.

I am not interested to discuss with you.

[Angela]

I did not know that genetic was not in my favor? But what is my favor?



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So far as I can tell, you believe, and want everyone else to believe that you're pure descendants of the "Illyrians", while other modern populations are actually closest to the ancient samples, and you want people to believe that you affected the genetics of the Greeks, but they didn't affect yours, which is HIGHLY unlikely.

That about covers it.

[Angela]

I'd like to point out that we have samples from the Classical Age, post-dating the 'Dorian Descent'. The sample Empuries2 is plotting almost identical to the Mycenean samples average, you can check it out with a simple run of VahaduoJS using the G25 co-ordinates (I know these are frowned upon on this board but still):

Target: GRC_Mycenaean Distance: 2.6188% / 0.02618803
86.0	GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
14.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 Distance: 2.3343% / 0.02334315
86.2	GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
13.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

So the Classical Age Greek from the Empuries colony is almost identical to the Mycenean sample average, post-dating the Bronze Age Collapse. Of course, that is one sample, but it's one step closer to uncovering the truth.

Thanks, Dosas.

Didn't see it until now.

[blevins13]

So far as I can tell, you believe, and want everyone else to believe that you're pure descendants of the "Illyrians", while other modern populations are actually closest to the ancient samples, and you want people to believe that you affected the genetics of the Greeks, but they didn't affect yours, which is HIGHLY unlikely.

That about covers it.

I will tell you what I believe so you don’t have to guess.
My family line is R1b-Z2103>BY611>Z2705>Y32147.
I hope this part of the Illyrian population, but I don’t know that yet, I am waiting for more genetic data and when certain government block this process of learning to cover their lies this pisses me off.
As for, did my ancestor marry with Greek women, I am sure they did, but considering that they were highlander probably they were not available.IMG_3962.jpg



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[Tutkun Arnaut]

We have someone here that tries to rationalize the behavior of a government that prohibits genetic testing and you say “well put”, interesting point of view from someone that claims that loves truth. No one is claiming Macedonian history, but we refuse to believe Modern Greeks claims with genetic proof. It is like a son claiming a father without being genetically tested. If the son refused to test his fathers remains that mean that he is lying, plain and simple.


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probably they did the test, and the results were not what they had expected. you cant argue DNA test.

[Tutkun Arnaut]

Very well put.

the dna could have been put to calculators and some other people could be closer geneticaly than todays Greeks

[blevins13]

probably they did the test, and the results were not what they had expected. you cant argue DNA test.

From this book bones don’t lie.


IMG_3965.jpg


IMG_3964.jpg



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[LTG]

The grave goods strongly indicate that it is indeed Philip of Macedon. There was a large shield made from gold and ivory, alongside various other gold artifacts including a diadem. The thorax also strongly resembled the one that we see Alexander depicted wearing in the limited frescos we have of him.

They need to DNA test the remains to put the speculation to bed for good. If this person resembles Ancient Greeks; great. If they are slightly more northern shifted as a result of their geography then that would land them very near modern Greeks anyway.

[Angela]

For the record: obviously the bones should be tested in a transparent manner, and the results published.

Personally, I would think the remains are more northern shifted than the Mycenaeans, but that's just a speculation.

I don't give a darn which modern population is closest to them.

Just keep the discussions fact and science based, and CIVIL.

[Johane Derite]

A beautiful colorisation of the ivory portraits found in tomb II.

[Piro Ilir]

Macedonians were of Illyrian stock. Modern greeks know this well. Hence they don't allow the examination of these Macedonian tombs. So far they have found there Illyrian bronze helmets. If I was living 2600 years ago, definitely I would be a 'wannabe Greek'. Life would be much easier for me