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Thread: Moots: Ancient Rome Paper

  1. #726
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    First myceneans, and now imperial romans
    It isn't a good time for the nordic propaganda...
    😂

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    5 members found this post helpful.
    I think I'll just give up on pop gen forums !!

    On Anthrogenica, everyone wants to be Beaker-derived, and expresses their disappointment at being less so than expected.

    Here on Eupedia, it's a constant witch hunt for alleged nordicists.

    I stand on a ridgeline between northern and southern Europe, and there seems to be no place where I can feel comfortable.

    Heck, can't you all just stick to the figures, analyze them for what they are, and try and see what they reveal in terms of migratory paths.

    Doesn't it suffice to the British that they conquered half the planet ? Doesn't it suffice to Greeks and Romans that they fathered western civilization ?

    For heavens sake, give us a break !!!!!!!
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    I think I'll just give up on pop gen forums !!

    On Anthrogenica, everyone wants to be Beaker-derived, and expresses their disappointment at being less so than expected.

    Here on Eupedia, it's a constant witch hunt for alleged nordicists.

    I stand on a ridgeline between northern and southern Europe, and there seems to be no place where I can feel comfortable.

    Heck, can't you all just stick to the figures, analyze them for what they are, and try and see what they reveal in terms of migratory paths.

    Doesn't it suffice to the British that they conquered half the planet ? Doesn't it suffice to Greeks and Romans that they fathered western civilization ?

    For heavens sake, give us a break !!!!!!!
    I completely agree. I never understood why people care about trying to "prove" that such or such region was superior historically. Our distant ancestors all came from Africa and all passed through the Middle East (even for Sub-Saharan Africans, as back migrations spread farming across the Sahel and all the way south to South Africa and Namibia, even contributing to the San gene pool). Western Eurasian people all have ancestors who were Middle Eastern Neolithic farmers and Steppe nomads. Practically all Europeans have at least some Celtic, Roman, Greek and Germanic blood, even in Finland and Sardinia. Trying to denigrate it or to view some ancestors as superior to others is lacking respect for some of our own ancestors.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
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    ok i am sorry if you were offended
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    Adam

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    I think I'll just give up on pop gen forums !!

    On Anthrogenica, everyone wants to be Beaker-derived, and expresses their disappointment at being less so than expected.

    Here on Eupedia, it's a constant witch hunt for alleged nordicists.

    I stand on a ridgeline between northern and southern Europe, and there seems to be no place where I can feel comfortable.

    Heck, can't you all just stick to the figures, analyze them for what they are, and try and see what they reveal in terms of migratory paths.

    Doesn't it suffice to the British that they conquered half the planet ? Doesn't it suffice to Greeks and Romans that they fathered western civilization ?

    For heavens sake, give us a break !!!!!!!
    I take great exception to being told I am taking part in some "witchhunt", if that is indeed what you're doing.

    I don't know how long you've been involved in this hobby, but I've been studying population genetics, reading various web sites and blogs, and posting about it all for over ten years.

    As a result, I don't have to make up anything about certain people and their agendas. I've heard it from their own mouths, from a time when they weren't so careful about hiding their opinions. I also was posting here for a years long period when Stormfront and theapricity members filled pages of this site with their disgusting, nordic supremacy rants.

    Yes, they're gone now, no thanks to new members who don't know what it was like.

    I've found in my life that when someone tells you he's a racist, a thief, a murderer, a liar, whatever, it behooves one to believe it and to be leery of their behavior in the future.

    I also think it is a vast misunderstanding of the current state of affairs to think that some of those unlamented late posters haven't tried to come back and post under "sock" accounts. Perhaps you would have to read my pms from various members to understand what is sometimes hidden under the surface.

    Absent that, perhaps giving us some credit for good faith would help.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Who could reasonably argue that blatant racism shouldn't be exposed? I certainly couldn't, and won't.

    But post, after post, after post, some people here are on the lookout for the slightest word that might positively refer to anything happening north of the 40th parallel. I remember being tagged as a nordicist for stating that the Germans were more disciplined than us Frenchies, a statement which is not only widely accepted as true, but is also currently evidenced with each new day that goes by. Not only that : it's one thing to be quick on the draw - and I am aware I can be rather touchy myself - but the wording of the rebukes is sometimes quite offensive.

    Whatever happened on this forum in the deep past, nothing justifies that people should be so spontaneously indicted.

    Over time, people get tired of such harassment, and many move to less exacting climes, to the general impoverishment of the forum. Soon there will be only a dozen posters left. I recently stayed away a while, to give my nerves a break. I'll stay away again if the stifling atmosphere endures. I've lived before pop gen forums, and can live without them.

    Maciamo, through whose blog I learnt all the basics, certainly deserved better than that.

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    Well, I don't know if I'll take a decade in this forum. At that time everything turned to haplogroups, users spent weeks, months and years talking about their haplogroups, the ethnic groups also seemed to belong to pure and clean and well-defined haplogroups. I entered without knowing anything at all, now it is not that I know much more but in those principles and then also how I did not conform or I did not add up the explanations because I honestly did not mind resorting to any rocambolesque situation and even make a fool of myself in order to call the Attention, maybe my way of expressing that everything could not be so accurate, I don't know, I saw everything very outdated.


    The current trend that I see in all the sites and the one that I think is going to perpetuate will be the user's publication of their results, even predicting forums where to be able to enter and remain they will have to publish their own results, the opposite is very comfortable .


    There are more and more tools, everything is going very fast, people are publishing continuously, they are researching and they want to know everything, there is no time to lose it in topics, supremacisms e.t.c.

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    Everyone needs to calm down. Assume, for a start, that people are, in the main, behaving fairly and honestly. Too many, unfortunately, post too quickly without considering how others may view their comments (I am guilty of this). If someone takes offense be willing to apologize and Move On. If you take offense, stop and consider that you may be over reacting.

    Now, can we get back to talking about the science?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    I think I'll just give up on pop gen forums !!

    On Anthrogenica, everyone wants to be Beaker-derived, and expresses their disappointment at being less so than expected.

    Here on Eupedia, it's a constant witch hunt for alleged nordicists.

    I stand on a ridgeline between northern and southern Europe, and there seems to be no place where I can feel comfortable.

    Heck, can't you all just stick to the figures, analyze them for what they are, and try and see what they reveal in terms of migratory paths.

    Doesn't it suffice to the British that they conquered half the planet ? Doesn't it suffice to Greeks and Romans that they fathered western civilization ?

    For heavens sake, give us a break !!!!!!!

    I don't understand all the fuss about Nordicists. In Germany, a so-called Nordic country nobody believes that the ancient Romans were Germanic/Scandinavian like. In fact, Germans think all contemporary or ancient Italians are like Sicilians or Southern Italians because most Italians that migrated to Germany are from the deep south of Italy. So aside from the internet in real life Nordicism is not an issue. However, Afrocentrism is another story since it's taught in schools all over the USA and promoted by BBC, History Channel and some other PC TV shows, documentaries. Rappers who push Afrocentrism are invited to Oxford University to lecture students about ancient Egyptians being black and how eurocentric racists try to hide it.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I completely agree. I never understood why people care about trying to "prove" that such or such region was superior historically. Our distant ancestors all came from Africa and all passed through the Middle East (even for Sub-Saharan Africans, as back migrations spread farming across the Sahel and all the way south to South Africa and Namibia, even contributing to the San gene pool). Western Eurasian people all have ancestors who were Middle Eastern Neolithic farmers and Steppe nomads. Practically all Europeans have at least some Celtic, Roman, Greek and Germanic blood, even in Finland and Sardinia. Trying to denigrate it or to view some ancestors as superior to others is lacking respect for some of our own ancestors.
    There are very vocal people with racist agenda on the internet but they are not half as powerful as the anti-white liberal leftists that do their best o disconnect all Europeans from North to South, from their ancient ancestors and roots. Keep in mind you read all the time there is no such thing as "Italian", "English" or "European", blah blah. However, the powerful people in academia, the intellectual elites, etc, are at war with the "white" or European identity. Hence you have a documentary in Sweden about the first people of Sweden where a black African man with blue contact lenses portrays a WHG, the first Swede. That triggered some African recent refugees in Sweden to say that they are entitled to live in Sweden since the original Swedes were black and theirs, that somehow makes them native to Sweden. The same troll games were played by so-called people of color from Britain who said since the Cheddar man as the first Briton was black, white Brits should get out of their land. I have seen a youtube clip about streets and places in Napoli where people on youtube made comments about the Subsaharan and North Africans and Indians who were walking there being native Italians since there is no such thing as Italian. According to them Italians come in different shades and are people for color. Besides John Cleese was criticized for saying London is no longer an English city. A black British woman of Nigerian descendant was outraged about this claim and argued to be as English as any white English person.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    There are very vocal people with racist agenda on the internet but they are not half as powerful as the anti-white liberal leftists that do their best o disconnect all Europeans from North to South, from their ancient ancestors and roots. Keep in mind you read all the time there is no such thing as "Italian", "English" or "European", blah blah. However, the powerful people in academia, the intellectual elites, etc, are at war with the "white" or European identity. Hence you have a documentary in Sweden about the first people of Sweden where a black African man with blue contact lenses portrays a WHG, the first Swede. That triggered some African recent refugees in Sweden to say that they are entitled to live in Sweden since the original Swedes were black and theirs, that somehow makes them native to Sweden. The same troll games were played by so-called people of color from Britain who said since the Cheddar man as the first Briton was black, white Brits should get out of their land. I have seen a youtube clip about streets and places in Napoli where people on youtube made comments about the Subsaharan and North Africans and Indians who were walking there being native Italians since there is no such thing as Italian. According to them Italians come in different shades and are people for color. Besides John Cleese was criticized for saying London is no longer an English city. A black British woman of Nigerian descendant was outraged about this claim and argued to be as English as any white English person.
    How can you take seriously Africans who justify their right to stay in Europe based on the fact that Palaeolithic or Mesolithic Europeans had dark skin? That's so ridiculous. Yes, they had dark skin, but they were the ancestors of Europeans, not Africans. It's just that skin colour evolved over time to adapt to high latitudes with little sunlight in winter. Anyway ancient ancestry is no justification for residence permits or visas in modern states. Otherwise we could all claim rights to plenty of places in the world.

    There are plenty of stupid people in the world. I try to just ignore them. It's no need to get all worked up and waste one's time and energy with all the nonsense that goes around online.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    I don't understand all the fuss about Nordicists. In Germany, a so-called Nordic country nobody believes that the ancient Romans were Germanic/Scandinavian like. In fact, Germans think all contemporary or ancient Italians are like Sicilians or Southern Italians because most Italians that migrated to Germany are from the deep south of Italy. So aside from the internet in real life Nordicism is not an issue. However, Afrocentrism is another story since it's taught in schools all over the USA and promoted by BBC, History Channel and some other PC TV shows, documentaries. Rappers who push Afrocentrism are invited to Oxford University to lecture students about ancient Egyptians being black and how eurocentric racists try to hide it.
    First of all, Germany is NOT a Nordic country. Nordic countries are Scandinavian countries + Finland.

    Secondly, how can you claim to speak for all or most Germans? They are many ignornant people in every country, but I doubt that so many Germans believe that all Italians look Sicilians. After all 12 millions Germans visit Italy each year and they go mostly to northern Italy. In would only take 6 years for all Germans to have been at least once to Italy (in reality so people go several times to the same country year after year, but even so, we could assume that a majority of Germans have been to Italy at least once in their lifetime).

    I had to look up Afrocentrism because, despite reading a lot (about 50 non-fiction books per year + Internet) and travelling a lot (nearly 50 countries so far), I am not really sure in what consists Afrocentrism and never heard of it being promoted by the BBC or being taught in schools in any Western country. Apparently Afrocentrism originated among African-Americans, not even in Africa itself. It has been dismissed by many top academics as pseudohistory. There is not much on the subject even on Wikipedia. I haven't found any confirmation on the Web that Afrocentrism is part of the US curriculum (in any state).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    There are very vocal people with racist agenda on the internet but they are not half as powerful as the anti-white liberal leftists that do their best o disconnect all Europeans from North to South, from their ancient ancestors and roots. Keep in mind you read all the time there is no such thing as "Italian", "English" or "European", blah blah. However, the powerful people in academia, the intellectual elites, etc, are at war with the "white" or European identity. Hence you have a documentary in Sweden about the first people of Sweden where a black African man with blue contact lenses portrays a WHG, the first Swede. That triggered some African recent refugees in Sweden to say that they are entitled to live in Sweden since the original Swedes were black and theirs, that somehow makes them native to Sweden. The same troll games were played by so-called people of color from Britain who said since the Cheddar man as the first Briton was black, white Brits should get out of their land. I have seen a youtube clip about streets and places in Napoli where people on youtube made comments about the Subsaharan and North Africans and Indians who were walking there being native Italians since there is no such thing as Italian. According to them Italians come in different shades and are people for color. Besides John Cleese was criticized for saying London is no longer an English city. A black British woman of Nigerian descendant was outraged about this claim and argued to be as English as any white English person.
    the academics are at war with the "white" identity? and you think that is because of their agenda? what if it's because the data just doesn't support such an identity? we know that we all originated in africa and more recently in near east. we also know that the skin colour was dark most of the time and just changed recently. those are all just facts, if that is against white identity so be it. the data shows that this concept of identity shouldn't really have much value from a social and also genetical point of view.

    also if those indians were born in italy and do as italians do then they are native italians. just like the black english women is english. if john creeds was talking about culture he might be right, if he was talking about ethnicity then it makes no sense. or maybe it does just a bit but it would have no real value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    That's because Eurogenes is an idiot. A polish racist with a dangerous agenda. He makes up stuff to suit his twisted world view. Honestly I think hes mentally unfit. Smart yes but a real sick person in the head. He claims not to be racist which is hilarious.
    really ? ive read his blog previously and failed to see anything overtly racist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I take great exception to being told I am taking part in some "witchhunt", if that is indeed what you're doing.

    I don't know how long you've been involved in this hobby, but I've been studying population genetics, reading various web sites and blogs, and posting about it all for over ten years.

    As a result, I don't have to make up anything about certain people and their agendas. I've heard it from their own mouths, from a time when they weren't so careful about hiding their opinions. I also was posting here for a years long period when Stormfront and theapricity members filled pages of this site with their disgusting, nordic supremacy rants.

    Yes, they're gone now, no thanks to new members who don't know what it was like.

    I've found in my life that when someone tells you he's a racist, a thief, a murderer, a liar, whatever, it behooves one to believe it and to be leery of their behavior in the future.

    I also think it is a vast misunderstanding of the current state of affairs to think that some of those unlamented late posters haven't tried to come back and post under "sock" accounts. Perhaps you would have to read my pms from various members to understand what is sometimes hidden under the surface.

    Absent that, perhaps giving us some credit for good faith would help.
    there is an obvious kneejerk reaction on these boards when it comes to the romans and just how north or south they plot. infact i think it makes members on here happy when samples plot south. its the same with the myceneans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    I don't understand all the fuss about Nordicists. In Germany, a so-called Nordic country nobody believes that the ancient Romans were Germanic/Scandinavian like. In fact, Germans think all contemporary or ancient Italians are like Sicilians or Southern Italians because most Italians that migrated to Germany are from the deep south of Italy. So aside from the internet in real life Nordicism is not an issue. However, Afrocentrism is another story since it's taught in schools all over the USA and promoted by BBC, History Channel and some other PC TV shows, documentaries. Rappers who push Afrocentrism are invited to Oxford University to lecture students about ancient Egyptians being black and how eurocentric racists try to hide it.
    the ancient italic tribes more resembled britsh/irish as opposed to the more scandanavian northern germanics.

    most of those roman busts arent showing nordic features but rather celtic ones. agrippa moreso resembles paul gallen (rugby player) than a swede.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lynxbythetv View Post
    really ? ive read his blog previously and failed to see anything overtly racist.

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    Sincerity is one of my qualities and yes in this forum it has always had a nordicist or Central European naphthalene tuffillo in a surreptitious and innocent way perhaps, but it is clear that the users of Southern Europe how I would say it, because it does not affect us In the slightest, each one comforts himself as he wishes and obviously those assumptions do not make a dent, and we went on, nonsense after all.

    Then Angela arrived and everything changed, a new order until I arrived The papers of Rome and the whole world went crazy in fact today I almost believe that Rome is the cradle of humanity not Africa. LOL


    On the other hand, so much that some of them presume that their countries are so polite and there is so much culture in mine, for example in realization of public, social, family education, my learning is that a Sicilian is as European as a Swede, an Albanian as a English, so the opposite is a language that I don't understand, they are even so Europeanist that I would like Russia to join the EU


    I do not know the interest sometimes that I have seen in people from the center or from the north stand out and throw down the south of Europe or give them identities that no e.t.c. when the enemy is expectant and life goes around a lot.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by lynxbythetv View Post
    the ancient italic tribes more resembled britsh/irish as opposed to the more scandanavian northern germanics.

    most of those roman busts arent showing nordic features but rather celtic ones. agrippa moreso resembles paul gallen (rugby player) than a swede.

    Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk
    Indeed, most of the admixture models I have got from using all the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age average population samples available (G25) tend to "choose" English Bronze Age samples as the main part of the "steppe ancestry" in the Italic and Etruscan samples (though the latter also has a more "eastern" part that is also very relevant, closer to BB, CWC and Unetice samples from Poland, Czechia and so on).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    And one member thinks we see Nordic t-rolls where they don't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Indeed, most of the admixture models I have got from using all the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age average population samples available (G25) tend to "choose" English Bronze Age samples as the main part of the "steppe ancestry" in the Italic and Etruscan samples (though the latter also has a more "eastern" part that is also very relevant, closer to BB, CWC and Unetice samples from Poland, Czechia and so on).
    interesting.

    Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Indeed, most of the admixture models I have got from using all the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age average population samples available (G25) tend to "choose" English Bronze Age samples as the main part of the "steppe ancestry" in the Italic and Etruscan samples (though the latter also has a more "eastern" part that is also very relevant, closer to BB, CWC and Unetice samples from Poland, Czechia and so on).

    I really don’t think that all my Roman matches were British Tourists. LOL

    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Sincerity is one of my qualities and yes in this forum it has always had a nordicist or Central European naphthalene tuffillo in a surreptitious and innocent way perhaps, but it is clear that the users of Southern Europe how I would say it, because it does not affect us In the slightest, each one comforts himself as he wishes and obviously those assumptions do not make a dent, and we went on, nonsense after all.

    Then Angela arrived and everything changed, a new order until I arrived The papers of Rome and the whole world went crazy in fact today I almost believe that Rome is the cradle of humanity not Africa. LOL


    On the other hand, so much that some of them presume that their countries are so polite and there is so much culture in mine, for example in realization of public, social, family education, my learning is that a Sicilian is as European as a Swede, an Albanian as a English, so the opposite is a language that I don't understand, they are even so Europeanist that I would like Russia to join the EU


    I do not know the interest sometimes that I have seen in people from the center or from the north stand out and throw down the south of Europe or give them identities that no e.t.c. when the enemy is expectant and life goes around a lot.
    i think i get what you mean. i still have not seen anything from eurogenes that could be deemed racist. ive read it on here before yet i have not seen it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I really don’t think that all my Roman matches were British Tourists. LOL

    Haha! Well, that isn't surprising, is it? The steppe-admixed ancestry in those ancient Italics and Etruscans isn't but ~25-40% (varies by location and individual), and the modern English have lots of North Germanic/Scandinavian admixture. But, considering linguistics and the events in Bronze Age Europe, it would surprise no one, I believe, if the earliest Proto-Italics or perhaps still pre-Proto-Italics (Italo-Celtics?) were pretty much French/British Celtic-like originally.

    Would you really be troubled to be related to these Welsh babes, honestly? lol







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    LivingDNA too, confuses North Italy with the British Isles.

    I get 11+%, and more or less, they assign British to most Italians too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lynxbythetv View Post
    the ancient italic tribes more resembled britsh/irish as opposed to the more scandanavian northern germanics.

    most of those roman busts arent showing nordic features but rather celtic ones. agrippa moreso resembles paul gallen (rugby player) than a swede.

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    Yes, the ancient Romans look SO, SO, "CELTIC".


    My mother's father looked just like him, and I assure you that nobody would EVER think he was British.

    And poor Agrippa didn't look anything like that extremely ugly man: colorized bust.







    Take your t-rolling elsewhere.

    As for being "happy" about the ancient Roman and Etruscan results, I have ego enough that I'm happy that I was right about both of them for almost seven years, and that I stuck to my guns despite the ridicule, name calling, labeling me as a racist, and even, once, threats that came my way regularly.

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