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Thread: Moots: Ancient Rome Paper

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    Salento: Just as you and Torzio did, I looked at my Chroma results from MyTrueAncestry and I am getting very, very, similar results. There is an option you can use that gives the closest modern populations to the ancient Samples used in the Antonio/Moots et al (2019) study. I, like, you came to the same conclusion, genetic continuity from Iron Age down to today. Some Romans cluster closer to Central/North Central Italy, Some Cluster South/South Central Italy.

    Chroma1.JPG




    For example, the first red color on Chromosome 1 is 591 SNPS related to Thracian I5769, R58, R1545, R59 and R131 and Central Roman CL36 Second Red color bar is 442 SNPs shares wiht R44, R49 and R969, R970, R52 and R41, respectively. The orange bar on Chromosome 1 is 128 SNPS with Ancient Greek I9005. With My True Ancestry, all of my chromosome Sharing for periods BC are Ancient Thracian and Ancient Greeks. For Chromosome 8, 105 SNPs with I0073, Chromosome 10, 115 SNPs with I9005 (first light orange segment) and 101 with I0070, Chromosome 13, 110 SNPs with Mycenaean I9006 and Chromosome 21, 102 with I0074.

    I have Caesar Level (can analyze up to 60 ancient samples) but this chroma tool very nice, I may have to upgrade to get more ancient samples analyzed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Salento: Just as you and Torzio did, I looked at my Chroma results from MyTrueAncestry and I am getting very, very, similar results. There is an option you can use that gives the closest modern populations to the ancient Samples used in the Antonio/Moots et al (2019) study. I, like, you came to the same conclusion, genetic continuity from Iron Age down to today. Some Romans cluster closer to Central/North Central Italy, Some Cluster South/South Central Italy.

    Chroma1.JPG




    For example, the first red color on Chromosome 1 is 591 SNPS related to Thracian I5769, R58, R1545, R59 and R131 and Central Roman CL36 Second Red color bar is 442 SNPs shares wiht R44, R49 and R969, R970, R52 and R41, respectively. The orange bar on Chromosome 1 is 128 SNPS with Ancient Greek I9005. With My True Ancestry, all of my chromosome Sharing for periods BC are Ancient Thracian and Ancient Greeks. For Chromosome 8, 105 SNPs with I0073, Chromosome 10, 115 SNPs with I9005 (first light orange segment) and 101 with I0070, Chromosome 13, 110 SNPs with Mycenaean I9006 and Chromosome 21, 102 with I0074.

    I have Caesar Level (can analyze up to 60 ancient samples) but this chroma tool very nice, I may have to upgrade to get more ancient samples analyzed.
    ... more of mine:

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post597660
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Salento: That Chromosome of yours with 2127 shared SNPs has a great historical continuity through time. A place where Ancient Greece and Rome meet!!!

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Salento: That Chromosome of yours with 2127 shared SNPs has a great historical continuity through time. A place where Ancient Greece and Rome meet!!!
    imho, It’s also possible that most of it, is a much older common shared ancestry,

    ... ‘cause they share the same segment.
    Last edited by Salento; 23-02-20 at 08:00.

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    Just letting you all know that apparently we're getting two papers, one with Iron Age Sicily samples and other with more Roman Era Italian samples like Samnites according to:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post648728

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post648734

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyan View Post
    Just letting you all know that apparently we're getting two papers, one with Iron Age Sicily samples and other with more Roman Era Italian samples like Samnites according to:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post648728

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post648734
    FYI

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...taly-over-time
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Cretan Greeks vs 647 ancient samples; top 100:

    Very close to a lot of Roman samples.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Very close to a lot of Roman samples.
    Here are the Imperial Roman samples that are similar to Greek Cretans, under a genetic distance of 5.0:



    R850 is one of them, so similar kind of people have been there since the Iron Age.

    They could be natives since that time, perhaps, rather than immigrants.

    What is clear however, is that people "south" of them disappear by the middle ages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I was wrong about all the Imperial Roman samples coming from Isola Sacra near Ostia, although a good number do. They're actually from some necropoli around the city of Rome itself as well. So, not like future archaeologists excavating just in Flushing. It's like archaeologists excavating in New York City as a whole, or London.

    However, the burial contexts tell us nothing. There's no grave goods, no inscriptions, not even names from what I can see, and there's been disturbances at a lot of the sites.

    Interestingly enough, some of the samples come from the Catacombs of Peter and Paul. I have to check tomorrow and see if those are more "East Med", i.e. the samples south and east of modern Southern Italians. It would make sense. The first Christians, and the only Christians for a long time were Jews.

    In that regard, look what happens to the J1 in ancient Italy after the Imperial Era.


    Razib Khan continues to get it:
    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2019/...medium=twitter

    "A combination of the wars of the 6th-century, which are recorded to have depopulated much of Italy, and the overall decentering of Rome from the Mediterranean system after the ending of the Western Empire, probably resulted in the inevitable contraction of the Eternal City.Of course, Rome grew again over the centuries. But the new Romans were not the same Romans as those of the Roman Empire, who left few descendants. In addition to far off cosmopolitans, the bulk of the population was probably derived from northern Lazio and southern Tuscany. Rural people whose genetic makeup resembled the Iron Age Italians from whom they descended."
    So I1 came to Italy with Germanic tribes, Goths, as expected. Iron Age Italy very enriched with R1b just like today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    The irony of all this is that Albanians are not very "Illyrian" at all, so why you cling to it so much as the defining element of your ethnicity is beyond me. Holdovers from your Communist dictatorship's propaganda? There are northeastern Italians who are closer to the Illyrians than you are. Heck, even the Spaniards come out as "close" to the Illyrians. Did your ancestors travel all the way to Iberia as well? It's just similar mixtures of steppe and Neolithic, for crying out loud.
    They probably had regional differences.
    I don't believe southern Illyrians will be different from Thracians tbh. Not that it bothers me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    So I1 came to Italy with Germanic tribes, Goths, as expected. Iron Age Italy very enriched with R1b just like today.

    They probably had regional differences.
    I don't believe southern Illyrians will be different from Thracians tbh. Not that it bothers me.
    I think the Romans knew what they where naming areas in their republic and imperial times ............Epirus was split into 2 ...........the older southern one of modern Albania and a bit of NW greece and the newer north one of modern north Albania , called Epirus Nova ( New Epirus ) ....where the main Roman supply route ran from....modern Durres to modern Istanbul
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
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    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    So I1 came to Italy with Germanic tribes, Goths, as expected. Iron Age Italy very enriched with R1b just like today.

    They probably had regional differences.
    I don't believe southern Illyrians will be different from Thracians tbh. Not that it bothers me.
    It must be the Goths, who were much less of a folk migration for what that's worth, than the Langobardi, who are pretty uniformly U-106 so far, yes?

    I do value your objective analysis of all these matters, for what that's worth as well, and I deeply respect the Albanians for their sense of honor in doing what they could to help Italy in turn for Italy's help.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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