Moots: Ancient Rome Paper

R851 vs R1015

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Very nice! Higher values for the Etruscan in Italy right where you would expect them. Interesting how "western" they were, with the Veneto and Friuli being lower, but higher in the "Illyrian" samples. Italy is indeed "central" Mediterranean.

How ludicrous the insistence on the "Herodotus" version of the origin of the Etruscans seems now.

When you get a chance could you put the maps you've already produced for these ancient Italian samples on one post? Just for ease of comparison.

The Latins were, from very early on, perhaps more heterogeneous than the Etruscans. Whether that was because the steppe like people hadn't yet completely merged with the Neolithic locals or admixture from southern areas I don't think we can know until we get lots more Northern and Southern Italian Bronze Age samples.

I'm always asking you to do more work! :)
 
Well, 60 means that R2 is not very similar to any modern population. Being a Neolithic sample, there's nothing unusual about it. Can you post also the K36 results of these samples?

It's a damn sight closer than 40s or 20s.

The relationship is there.
 
It's a damn sight closer than 40s or 20s.

The relationship is there.

That similarity tool is based on Eurogenes K36, one of the less credible Gedmatch tool. Just a few points of difference in the 36 components is enough to vary the result a lot.

https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm


However, yes, being the Italians very Neolithic is obvious that the genetic inheritance of the Neolithic has not disappeared.
 
That similarity tool is based on Eurogenes K36, one of the less credible Gedmatch tool. Just a few points of difference in the 36 components is enough to vary the result a lot.
https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm
However, yes, being the Italians very Neolithic is obvious that the genetic inheritance of the Neolithic has not disappeared.
The raw data files were downloaded from the official data bank and converted by me personally. The values are all relative, despite the credibility of the calculator. Moreover, coordinates can be made for any gedmatch calculator. Especially now thanks to mlukas's new tool.
 
Here is a painted version of the R850 map, along with R437, compared to my heat map:
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86 is very close, and it makes me damn proud to be this close to a Roman Latin, from the Republican era.
 
The raw data files were downloaded from the official data bank and converted by me personally. The values are all relative, despite the credibility of the calculator. Moreover, coordinates can be made for any gedmatch calculator. Especially now thanks to mlukas's new tool.

Given Polako's obvious and often stated prejudices, any tinkering he did with the calculators (choice of samples, etc.) would be to make us "less" similar to these ancient samples, so in reality the similarities are probably higher than appear here, but it's good to see, as you say, the relative similarities.
 
Latins were also a considerably smaller population than Etruscans.







It's Friuli only there.

Perhaps. Doesn't change that the Latins we have are quite heterogeneous.

Certainly looks to me like the lower number spills into the Veneto.
 
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Latins were also a considerably smaller population than Etruscans.







It's Friuli only there.


it looks like Friuli, Veneto, trentino ( all south tyrol ) and as far as innsbruck austria
 
Given Polako's obvious and often stated prejudices, any tinkering he did with the calculators (choice of samples, etc.) would be to make us "less" similar to these ancient samples, so in reality the similarities are probably higher than appear here, but it's good to see, as you say, the relative similarities.

People are welcome to analyze the samples themselves with any calculator they'd like. Coordinates can be made for anyone of them via the raw data files I converted. If someone could point me to Italian regional sample BAM files, I'd be more than happy make them usable for other calculators, to be compared to these Iron age samples.
 
Given Polako's obvious and often stated prejudices, any tinkering he did with the calculators (choice of samples, etc.) would be to make us "less" similar to these ancient samples, so in reality the similarities are probably higher than appear here, but it's good to see, as you say, the relative similarities.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are indeed higher. I'd like to see a map tool based on a different calculator as well. It is essentially just a list of modern sample distances that are compared to a target, reorganized as a map.
 
People are welcome to analyze the samples themselves with any calculator they'd like. Coordinates can be made for anyone of them via the raw data files I converted. If someone could point me to Italian regional sample BAM files, I'd be more than happy make them usable for other calculators, to be compared to these Iron age samples.

I'm going to make Late antiquity Roman samples conversion too. I will post zip when I'll convert all. This tool which you used is very fast, only download takes time.
 
I'm going to make Late antiquity Roman samples conversion too. I will post zip when I'll convert all. This tool which you used is very fast, only download takes time.

hi mlukas,
can you do it for some of the imperial romans also ?
for example: like r113

in my true ancestry tool i am closest to Imperial Rome Empire Via Paisiello (100 AD)
i guess he is close to east sicilians
appreciate if you can upload him
kind regards
adam
 
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I was right :)

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Indeed you were. :)

The Dodecad K12b is more in sync with the findings of an academic paper than Eurogenes is, despite being so old.

As I've been saying for ever, Eurogenes results are slanted, particularly as regards Italians. He's not an honest broker, and never has been, unlike Dienekes.

I just wish Dienekes was still active so that he could update the calculators or even come up with a new one.
 
I have a new number 1 for now, I'll post the coordinates after a make a few more:

Distance to:Jovialis
3.43008746LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121
3.70737104Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836
4.06829202MA_Villa_Magna_R60
6.31831465MA_Villa_Magna_R59
6.33613447MA_Villa_Magna_R65
6.93178909C_Italian
7.03068275Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549
7.54746315IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_437
7.94664709O_Italian
8.53400258S_Italian_Sicilian
8.78169118Sicilian
8.86584457Greek
10.09450841MA_Villa_Magna_R57
10.43502755Tuscan
10.94765728Crimean_Tatar_Coast
11.25284853Albanian_Kosovo
11.33426663TSI30
11.35261203Greek_Crete
11.67082259Ashkenazy_Jews
11.78232575Ashkenazi
12.38747755Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548
12.58260307Albanian_North
14.42027739IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1
14.54204937IA_Latin_Ardea_R850
14.94128843Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
 
Here are the Medieval samples compared to the modern Italian samples, using Dodecad 12Kb.

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Nice. Thanks, Jovialis.

Have you ever noticed how when remains which are clearly those of Central or Northern Europeans show up in Italian contexts no one suggests that they stayed, had thousands of descendants, and had a large, permanent effect on Italian genetics?

Let a Syrian show up, though, and he's bound to be our ancestor. No problem with it at all, to be clear, but the agenda of those to whom it would be a tragedy if it applied to "their" country, is very clear for those who have been around for a while.
 
Indeed you were. :)
The Dodecad K12b is more in sync with the findings of an academic paper than Eurogenes is, despite being so old.
As I've been saying for ever, Eurogenes results are slanted, particularly as regards Italians. He's not an honest broker, and never has been, unlike Dienekes.
I just wish Dienekes was still active so that he could update the calculators or even come up with a new one.
That's because Eurogenes is an idiot. A polish racist with a dangerous agenda. He makes up stuff to suit his twisted world view. Honestly I think hes mentally unfit. Smart yes but a real sick person in the head. He claims not to be racist which is hilarious.
 

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