Moots: Ancient Rome Paper

me.

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That'd be wrong, unless you refer to the Welsh, who apparently have quite little post-Antiquity gene flow. The English and the Scottish have lots of later admixture from North German/Scandinavian lands, as much as ~40-50% in some areas. So, genetically they're not the same as their partial Iron Age ancestors.
 
Go there : https://vahaduo.github.io/custompca/

Paste the data below in "data". Then flip both PC1 and PC2 to have the north in the right place.
Then look what happens. Iron Age Italics, Etruscans, Proto-Villanovan plot between Halstatt DA111 and the Lech Valley BB samples, among a crowd of Bavarian BB samples just above, and Iberian BBs just below. In other words, right where today's French and Swiss samples get packed together.

Looks like they did come from north of the Alps, and were by the Iron Age in the process of admixing with Remedello-like pops. What happened later is a different story. And I can't think what nordicism might have to do with that.

Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09538,0.121791,0.147252,0.032809,0.007429,0.035391,-0.006136,-0.00235,0.002769,0.00634,0.028793,-0.001949,0.009891,-0.023637,-0.012111,-0.000814,-0.002121,0.007041,0.002154,0.007039,-0.004127,0.000624,-0.004575,-0.016269,0.001325,-0.001078
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09569,0.117238,0.122879,0.051666,0.050065,0.026466,0.015897,-0.00282,-0.000692,0.005522,0.002369,0.001624,0.002698,-0.004014,-0.009909,0.014251,0.005436,-0.002086,0.003801,-0.004399,0.008254,0.005241,0.00507,-0.001356,-0.000482,0.000239
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09613_d,0.125205,0.123895,0.048649,0.063954,0.025235,0.01757,0.008225,-0.008769,-0.003886,-0.008201,-0.002273,-0.004796,-0.012042,-0.021882,0.017236,0.00769,0.008736,0,0.006411,-0.003752,0.01984,0.011376,0.00456,-0.00241,-0.00012
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Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3589,0.127482,0.135065,0.050911,0.051034,0.028928,0.008088,0.006815,0.001615,-0.007158,-0.001458,0.002436,0.004196,-0.008028,-0.01679,0.0076,0.022938,0.009779,-0.00114,0.00088,0.014007,0.006738,0.000124,0.007765,0.001325,-0.006227
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3590,0.120652,0.147252,0.044123,0.018088,0.037853,-0.004462,-0.001645,-0.006461,0.009204,0.010387,0,0.012439,-0.014271,-0.007019,0.005972,-0.00411,-0.017602,0.008235,0.019986,0.004377,-0.001996,0.001731,-0.01479,-0.000602,0.003592
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Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5017,0.132035,0.14319,0.027907,0.010982,0.017542,-0.00251,-0.003525,-0.006923,-0.012476,0.016948,0.001461,0.001049,-0.011893,-0.000963,-0.009365,0.00716,0.001695,-0.000887,0,0.001876,-0.010606,-0.008532,-0.005053,0.014219,-0.008382
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Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5023,0.134311,0.126941,0.06939,0.066861,0.03416,0.026495,0.004935,0.000462,0.0045,-0.005103,0.004222,0.008542,-0.012042,-0.01913,0.021172,0.0179,0.015646,0,0.000377,0.010255,0.004118,0.001237,0.006162,0.00976,0.001437
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5519,0.12862,0.121864,0.058454,0.075259,0.024004,0.027889,0.00094,0.001385,-0.007976,-0.018041,0.00341,0.003747,-0.003717,-0.014175,0.019272,0.024662,-0.000391,-0.00076,0.008925,0.006628,0.005865,0.005441,0.005053,0.008194,-0.003592
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5520,0.136588,0.136081,0.039975,0.014212,0.036314,0.008925,-0.004935,-0.000462,0.0045,0.026242,0.007145,0.008393,-0.016204,-0.018441,0.005157,-0.00358,0.011213,-0.004687,-0.000377,-0.000125,0.000873,-0.001855,-0.004437,0.003615,-0.003712
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5521,0.135449,0.128972,0.070522,0.057494,0.028005,0.027889,-0.00329,0.002077,-0.001023,-0.004738,-0.005846,0.013188,-0.013825,-0.016102,0.020358,0.005171,0.004303,0.001647,0.00993,0.010755,0.006738,0.010263,-0.001109,-0.003253,-0.006586
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5523,0.127482,0.121864,0.056191,0.062339,0.0397,0.018686,0.010575,-0.006461,-0.005931,-0.016766,-0.00065,0.005245,-0.006095,-0.016377,0.025515,0.006364,-0.00339,0.005068,0.00088,0.005753,0.000873,0.000866,0.000493,0.006989,-0.006466
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5524,0.120652,0.145221,0.038466,-0.001292,0.041238,-0.002789,0.00893,0.008307,0.008999,0.026242,-0.001949,0.011839,-0.005946,0.003441,-0.00095,-0.005436,-0.012256,0.00152,0.004148,-0.006003,-0.002246,0.001484,-0.0053,-0.008073,0.000599
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5525,0.127482,0.132019,0.06675,0.05168,0.040623,0.018407,0.00846,0.005538,0.01268,0.00164,0.001299,0.002098,-0.008028,-0.011285,0.018729,0.023071,0.018906,-0.003294,-0.002765,0.010255,0.010731,-0.000742,0.000863,-0.006507,-0.003473
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Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5658,0.129758,0.119832,0.050534,0.059109,0.027082,0.016455,-0.001645,0.001846,0.000614,-0.002369,0.002436,0.009292,-0.00773,-0.006744,0.021851,-0.004508,-0.017732,0.004434,0.004902,0.011005,0.017469,-0.002968,0.002342,0.017111,-0.004191
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5659,0.138864,0.12491,0.073539,0.062339,0.031083,0.023706,0.002115,0.012923,0.01084,-0.002916,-0.00682,0.000749,-0.010258,-0.006744,0.014386,0.008353,0.000261,0.003801,-0.012193,0.012756,0.019466,-0.000742,0.008751,0.000602,-0.023471
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5833,0.114961,0.136081,0.065619,0.050711,0.037545,0.01004,-0.00329,0.000462,0.012271,0.007289,0.001949,0.002847,-0.014569,-0.011836,0.021444,0.008884,0.004955,-0.001394,0.00264,-0.001251,0.006613,0.012736,-0.002095,-0.003856,-0.001197
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5834,0.125205,0.129988,0.050911,0.048127,0.033852,0.020917,-0.00658,-0.000692,0.009817,0.011663,-0.001624,0.003747,-0.004906,-0.010459,0.011536,0.013126,0.000391,0.007981,0.00352,-0.005503,-0.002496,-0.000742,-0.008874,-0.000964,0.000958
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I6590,0.119514,0.132019,0.059208,0.039729,0.038469,0.007809,-0.000235,0.001846,0.012067,0.011845,0.00341,0.008243,-0.012339,-0.010597,0.022394,0.005304,0.004172,0.004941,0.006034,0.011506,0.010981,0.006059,0.005176,0.000964,0.003712
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I6591,0.124067,0.135065,0.042992,0.030039,0.023697,0.006972,0.003055,0.003461,0.009817,0.012028,-0.003085,0.005095,-0.00773,-0.012111,0.013029,0.006232,0.010822,0.001014,0.001131,0.003252,0.00262,0.012489,0.002342,-0.004338,-0.001676
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I6624,0.130897,0.138112,0.056945,0.040052,0.035391,0.006136,-0.001175,0.008769,0.015544,0.024055,0.003248,0.016036,-0.00996,-0.004404,0.017779,-0.002784,-0.0103,0.003927,0.002891,0.003877,0.003369,-0.000247,0.000246,-0.011086,0.006466
Bell_Beaker_CHE:I5755,0.119514,0.133034,0.067127,0.022933,0.045547,0,-0.01081,0.001615,0.019021,0.01877,0.007957,0.005395,-0.010852,-0.020368,0.017779,0.009016,-0.001825,0.005828,0.003394,0.006128,0.008984,0.001731,0.016145,-0.015665,0.004311
Bell_Beaker_CHE:I5759,0.126344,0.127957,0.022627,0.011628,0.031698,0.008088,0.00658,0.003923,0.022702,0.014397,0.008444,-0.002847,-0.029286,-0.00289,0.003122,-0.00716,-0.001825,-0.000507,0.003394,0.005628,-0.012603,0.000247,-0.021075,0.002048,-0.011137
Bell_Beaker_HUN:I7044,0.120652,0.167562,0.039598,-0.023902,0.072629,-0.020359,0.00094,-0.001615,0.033133,0.048839,-0.003085,0.00045,-0.011596,0.007707,-0.020494,-0.016441,-0.002086,0.00038,0.011061,0.005628,0.004243,0.003957,-0.004437,-0.01687,0.006347
Bell_Beaker_HUN:I7045,0.130897,0.158423,0.044877,-0.023902,0.054779,-0.016733,0.00376,0.009692,0.025156,0.047017,0.006496,0.005395,-0.010258,-0.004817,-0.022122,0.002652,0.032466,-0.000253,0.010684,-0.004252,0.006114,-0.002102,-0.011092,-0.013978,-0.002994
Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I2364,0.12862,0.158423,0.033187,-0.022933,0.045855,-0.015339,0.000705,0.007384,0.035178,0.046835,0.004547,0.004046,-0.012785,0.001514,-0.009908,0.003447,0.008605,-0.003547,0.002765,-0.003377,-0.000749,0.000495,-0.009367,0.001566,-0.002275
Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I2365,0.12862,0.127957,0.050534,0.045543,0.031083,0.015618,0.001175,-0.000692,0.006954,-0.007289,-0.000162,0.004046,-0.007582,-0.024359,0.012351,0.019358,0.010822,-0.002154,-0.002011,-0.005253,0.007612,0.007666,0.004314,0.00241,0.001437
Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I2786,0.130897,0.118817,0.058454,0.06783,0.023081,0.018965,0.005875,-0.000692,-0.01943,-0.030251,-0.001461,0.003897,-0.010704,-0.012524,0.03488,0.012066,-0.014994,0.002787,0.00176,0.007504,0.004243,0,-0.002095,0.006868,-0.002155
Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I3528,0.135449,0.141159,0.065242,0.04845,0.064627,0.006136,0.018096,0.011769,0.025975,0.010387,-0.013153,0.002248,0.010704,0.010184,-0.008143,0.018165,0.014864,-0.004941,0.005782,0.015132,0.00861,-0.006183,-0.012818,-0.040247,0.008742
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Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I4178,0.120652,0.12491,0.059585,0.03876,0.032621,0.016455,-0.009635,0.001154,-0.009817,-0.010023,-0.004547,0.005845,-0.00892,-0.0139,0.024294,0.007955,-0.005998,0.001647,0.004777,0.001626,0.000125,0.009027,0.005053,0.006266,-0.007664
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Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I0461,0.1161,0.140143,0.051288,0.008721,0.070475,-0.00753,-0.00846,0.007846,0.041518,0.046106,-0.010555,0.010341,-0.021853,-0.021744,0.012351,0.019358,0.016428,0.007981,-0.005154,0.005628,0.009358,0,-0.011955,-0.013375,-0.002874
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I0826,0.132035,0.176702,0.062225,-0.029393,0.090171,-0.016455,-0.021386,0.006461,0.041927,0.098407,-0.009743,0.006444,-0.043112,-0.010459,-0.001221,-0.011668,0.021905,-0.007981,0.00817,-0.013006,0.005366,-0.015209,-0.006039,-0.040849,0.002634
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I0840,0.122929,0.157407,0.052043,-0.030685,0.081861,-0.020638,-0.014336,-0.005769,0.068106,0.090571,-0.003248,0.016186,-0.033895,-0.022708,-0.001221,0.000265,0.014864,-0.014189,0.001885,-0.00025,0.012104,0.00371,-0.00493,-0.038198,0.003353
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I1970,0.125205,0.173656,0.067505,-0.0323,0.079399,-0.024263,-0.00611,0.004384,0.054403,0.113533,-0.009094,0.018883,-0.041922,-0.030965,0.000271,0.010209,0.021905,-0.001014,0.009176,0.00988,0.013351,-0.00643,-0.017378,-0.045549,0.000838
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I4229,0.120652,0.160454,0.047894,-0.023902,0.077553,-0.013387,-0.008695,0.005077,0.053176,0.072894,-0.003897,0.012439,-0.037611,-0.015689,-0.004072,-0.001326,0.003129,0.005574,0.000628,-0.004252,0.018218,-0.000495,-0.017624,-0.025666,-0.000239
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I4247,0.12862,0.178733,0.034695,-0.030685,0.080323,-0.021753,-0.012926,0.01223,0.065652,0.101141,-0.000162,0.024578,-0.021556,-0.022845,-0.009093,0.018695,0.023339,-0.004434,0.001257,-0.007879,0.010731,0.006677,-0.019227,-0.035186,0.001437
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I5665,0.126344,0.149283,0.052797,0.012274,0.068936,0.000837,-0.011281,-0.001385,0.043768,0.049204,0.001624,0.014687,-0.02438,-0.008945,0.001493,-0.002121,-0.008736,0.009755,0.004777,-0.00025,0.013227,0.001113,-0.00456,-0.027474,0.000838
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6472,0.135449,0.144205,0.076555,0.015181,0.048009,-0.009482,-0.015276,0.000923,0.035383,0.049933,0.001624,0.016935,-0.029286,-0.009221,0.012758,-0.016971,0.004955,-0.003674,-0.007039,-0.002501,0.004866,0.010263,-0.006902,-0.020244,0.004431
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6539,0.124067,0.149283,0.057322,-0.003553,0.070167,-0.001394,-0.01081,0.003692,0.030679,0.041914,0.00341,0.005245,-0.023637,-0.026286,0.002307,0.009414,0.024121,-0.004941,0.00264,-0.006503,0.002496,0.00371,-0.001849,-0.016147,0.003233
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6584,0.124067,0.175687,0.060339,-0.02584,0.080015,-0.029284,-0.00329,0.001846,0.074856,0.087656,-0.004222,0.013488,-0.020069,-0.01101,-0.002986,-0.008884,0.009257,-0.000507,0.016718,0.017383,0.005241,0.00371,-0.015036,-0.026992,-0.006347
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6587,0.118376,0.165531,0.058077,-0.036499,0.089555,-0.030957,-0.01081,-0.001615,0.060539,0.094763,0.000487,0.004796,-0.036125,-0.020231,-0.003664,-0.002519,0.010431,-0.002154,-0.015335,-0.006253,0.024332,-0.009274,-0.014173,-0.030607,-0.008263
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6588,0.134311,0.15436,0.061094,0.007429,0.053856,0.014502,0.00658,0.01823,0.018203,0.045741,-0.009906,0.016036,-0.025867,-0.026424,0.011265,0.012596,0.000522,0.006081,-0.002388,0.017508,0.006613,-0.015457,-0.001849,-0.003133,0.007305
Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6623,0.133173,0.146236,0.061471,0.036822,0.042162,0.011435,0.00987,0.002077,0.021475,0.032256,-0.015427,0.014087,-0.020812,-0.020781,0.009636,-0.006762,-0.016168,0.007221,0.004902,0.005628,0.010482,0.01051,-0.004683,-0.011929,0
Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979,0.130897,0.157407,0.021496,-0.030685,0.044316,-0.020359,0.00423,-0.003,0.016771,0.044101,0.010718,0.01139,-0.024083,-0.006881,-0.007193,0.019756,0.022948,-0.001267,0.002011,-0.009505,-0.000499,0.008408,-0.0053,-0.008314,0.001317
Bell_Beaker_ITA:I2478,0.126344,0.14319,0.044877,0.002584,0.045239,0.013108,0,0.000462,0.022498,0.036083,0.000325,0.013788,-0.017988,-0.007569,0.00475,-0.009016,-0.019949,0.012542,0.009553,-0.007754,0.006988,0.007543,-0.012202,-0.003374,0.005029
DEU_Lech_BBC:UNTA58_68Sk1,0.125205,0.145221,0.032809,0.008075,0.035699,-0.009203,-0.00188,0.002538,0.004295,0.028793,-0.003735,0.009142,-0.024678,-0.007844,-0.002172,-0.00305,0.006258,0.006461,0.006662,-0.005878,-0.00025,-0.004822,-0.01972,0.003133,-0.001676
DEU_Lech_BBC:WEHR_1192SkA,0.129758,0.13405,0.067882,0.065892,0.033237,0.019243,0.00047,-0.002538,0.008999,0.005467,0.000162,0.01109,-0.010406,-0.008945,0.022801,0.010209,-0.004433,0.009122,0.003645,0.000875,0.006364,0.011994,0.000739,0.008796,-0.000479
DEU_Lech_EBA:AITI_119,0.121791,0.140143,0.05242,0.026486,0.040623,0.003068,0.001175,0.001154,0.003477,0.017859,-0.001299,0.01124,-0.020961,-0.019818,0.01045,0.02201,0.01708,-0.0019,0.009679,0.002376,0.007986,0.003957,-0.005053,0.000964,0.008382
DEU_Lech_EBA:AITI_2,0.124067,0.140143,0.056191,0.041021,0.042162,0.016455,-0.003055,0.002077,0.014112,0.018406,0.002273,0.006744,-0.020218,-0.000413,0.011672,0.001591,-0.008996,-0.006334,0.013073,0.012631,0.006988,0.00371,0.001479,-0.005422,-0.00467
DEU_Lech_EBA:AITI_78,0.132035,0.135065,0.046386,0.034238,0.036314,0.003626,0.002585,0.005769,0.005318,0.010023,0.001299,0.011839,-0.016947,-0.015001,0.017236,0.015115,0.021513,0.005828,0.003268,0.003252,0.006239,-0.002102,0.001109,-0.002651,-0.001676
DEU_Lech_EBA:pOST_44,0.124067,0.144205,0.056568,0.008721,0.04924,-0.001952,-0.00188,0.000692,0.008795,0.028247,0.001299,0.009292,-0.017988,-0.003028,0.005293,0.008353,-0.002608,-0.00266,0.004525,0.001126,-0.008235,-0.008285,-0.001356,-0.002651,-0.003233
DEU_Lech_EBA:pOST_50,0.120652,0.153345,0.043746,-0.002584,0.052933,-0.003347,-0.00329,-0.002077,0.022293,0.031162,-0.005846,0.008692,-0.022299,-0.010459,-0.002172,0.014585,0.021253,0.004307,0.001257,-0.005753,0.00262,0.000124,0.002835,-0.005181,-0.010418
DEU_Lech_EBA:pOST_6,0.12862,0.128972,0.065996,0.053941,0.03416,0.018128,0.00094,-0.002769,0.002863,0.001822,-0.006333,0.011989,-0.003865,-0.015001,0.015065,0.00305,-0.004303,-0.001394,0.002891,0.002751,0.007487,-0.003339,-0.004067,0.001446,-0.006107
DEU_Lech_EBA:UNTA85_1412,0.127482,0.14319,0.055437,0.032946,0.035391,0.009203,0.014806,-0.001154,-0.001841,0.010934,0.007957,0.008692,-0.018583,-0.018854,0.0076,0.016176,0.011865,-0.00266,0.004525,0.003877,-0.003244,-0.00371,-0.003821,0.019039,-0.004071
DEU_Lech_EBA:WEHR_1415adult_d,0.124067,0.119832,0.062225,0.066538,0.017849,0.02259,-0.001645,0.000231,-0.019021,-0.012574,-0.00341,0.007044,-0.00773,-0.019955,0.026601,0.020419,0.01682,0.001394,-0.004902,0.01063,0.012353,-0.002349,0.005176,0.003253,-0.016046
DEU_Lech_EBA:WEHR_1415child,0.135449,0.127957,0.04978,0.051034,0.029852,0.019243,0.005875,0,-0.000205,0.002734,-0.006171,0.012589,-0.013082,-0.020231,0.020494,0.006895,-0.004694,0.001774,0.005154,0.00963,0.002995,0.004575,-0.001849,-0.006386,-0.005149
ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA:RMPR851,0.133173,0.156392,0.044123,-0.010336,0.046778,-0.004741,0.008225,0.004154,0.023725,0.044283,-0.004222,0.01109,-0.02215,-0.011147,-0.006243,-0.006099,0.002738,-0.000127,0.004902,-0.004252,-0.009109,0.004328,-0.003081,-0.009519,-0.002874
ITA_Boville_Ernica_IA:RMPR1021,0.126344,0.153345,0.035072,-0.014858,0.052317,-0.013387,-0.00094,0.003461,0.020452,0.04155,0.004222,0.010041,-0.013528,-0.008808,0.007465,-0.015646,-0.011995,-0.003041,0.004902,-0.012631,0.007861,0.006306,-0.007641,-0.001325,0.008023
ITA_Etruscan:RMPR473,0.125205,0.158423,0.035449,-0.019703,0.046162,-0.002789,0,-0.002769,0.026384,0.041368,-0.002923,0.012739,-0.018583,-0.007707,-0.0057,-0.017634,-0.010431,0.004054,0.010056,-0.002126,-0.004742,-0.00136,-0.003328,0.002289,-0.003473
ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b,0.122929,0.151314,0.036581,-0.009044,0.036314,-0.00251,0.00235,-0.003461,0.013908,0.027882,-0.003573,0.01154,-0.013677,-0.004129,-0.003664,0.00411,0.004824,0.010135,0.013073,-0.002626,-0.004742,0.005317,-0.000493,-0.003133,-0.002634
ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA:RMPR435b,0.125205,0.147252,0.045254,0.005814,0.044931,0.005578,-0.00094,0.003461,0.023725,0.039363,-0.004547,0.008992,-0.021407,-0.014726,0.012893,-0.001989,-0.001043,0.006208,0.003017,-0.003252,0.004742,0.002844,-0.006286,-0.000241,-0.002036
ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1,0.121791,0.144205,0.030547,-0.011951,0.024004,-0.008925,0.002585,-0.002538,0.004909,0.021868,0.005521,0.005695,-0.013825,-0.001239,-0.005429,-0.013524,-0.01017,0.003674,0.004777,-0.011631,-0.007237,0.000371,-0.002958,0.005422,-0.006227
ITA_Rome_Latini_IA:RMPR1016,0.127482,0.148267,0.034695,-0.017442,0.043085,-0.005578,-0.002115,-0.003231,0.024952,0.051391,-0.001461,0.013488,-0.034043,-0.010184,-0.008415,0.011535,0.018515,-0.003674,0.005405,0.004377,0.003244,-0.001731,0.002588,-0.006266,-0.007544
ITA_Villanovan:RMPR1015,0.12862,0.155376,0.04186,-0.022933,0.054164,-0.007251,-0.00188,-0.002077,0.023929,0.039545,0.00747,0.004946,-0.016501,-0.018854,-0.006107,0.011005,0.025686,0.003421,0.002263,0.004877,0.005366,0.003957,-0.008381,-0.007591,-0.002874
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:DA111,0.124067,0.151314,0.063356,0.026163,0.0437,0.005857,0.001175,0.002308,0.020861,0.02442,-0.012342,0.00015,-0.01665,-0.003165,0.014658,-0.009546,-0.018254,0.003801,0.005908,0.001626,0.009858,0.006059,-0.004437,-0.005904,-0.005269
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany:DA112,0.133173,0.123895,0.077687,0.042313,0.052625,0.002231,0.00282,0.000462,0.016157,0.01549,-0.011692,-0.010641,-0.00223,0.004404,0.004479,0.006895,0.006258,-0.000253,0.003771,0.014507,-0.007736,-0.002102,0.003204,-0.00494,-0.001676
 
That'd be wrong, unless you refer to the Welsh, who apparently have quite little post-Antiquity gene flow. The English and the Scottish have lots of later admixture from North German/Scandinavian lands, as much as ~40-50% in some areas. So, genetically they're not the same as their partial Iron Age ancestors.
how large are these areas and how much does this 50% represent overall ?

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk
 
Go there : https://vahaduo.github.io/custompca/

Paste the data below in "data". Then flip both PC1 and PC2 to have the north in the right place.
Then look what happens. Iron Age Italics, Etruscans, Proto-Villanovan plot between Halstatt DA111 and the Lech Valley BB samples, among a crowd of Bavarian BB samples just above, and Iberian BBs just below. In other words, right where today's French and Swiss samples get packed together.

Looks like they did come from north of the Alps, and were by the Iron Age in the process of admixing with Remedello-like pops. What happened later is a different story. And I can't think what nordicism might have to do with that.

you're probably right
there seems to be 1 oultier though : ITA Villanovan in the direction of Bell Beaker ITA
which is this Bell Beaker ITA?
is it possible to incorporate the Remedello individuals?
 
you're probably right
there seems to be 1 oultier though : ITA Villanovan in the direction of Bell Beaker ITA
which is this Bell Beaker ITA?
is it possible to incorporate the Remedello individuals?

ITA_Remedello_BA:RISE486,0.113823,0.169593,0.027907,-0.047804,0.080323,-0.025379,-0.013631,0.001385,0.059925,0.071801,0.00406,0.013788,-0.012933,-0.003991,-0.016422,-0.017767,-0.002999,0.012035,0.000754,-0.006503,0.001996,-0.003339,-0.02354,-0.027835,-0.007664
ITA_Remedello_BA:RISE487,0.124067,0.162485,0.041106,-0.045866,0.075706,-0.025658,-0.0094,0.011769,0.05154,0.096403,-0.010068,0.01079,-0.031367,-0.016652,-0.017779,-0.000663,0.013038,0.00266,0.017095,-0.018384,0.009733,0.008779,-0.019596,-0.018436,-0.004431
ITA_Remedello_BA:RISE489,0.121791,0.173656,0.041106,-0.062662,0.07663,-0.028726,-0.00564,0.004384,0.059925,0.079637,-0.006171,0.017534,-0.030773,-0.013212,-0.021172,-0.008353,0.00691,0.004561,0.015712,-0.006003,-0.003743,-0.003462,-0.012941,-0.026992,-0.007903
 
which is this Bell Beaker ITA?
Sample ID / genetic sex (M/F): I2478 / M
Find location: Via Guidorossi, Parma, Emilia Romagna
Associated label in publication: Beaker Northern Italy
Date: 2194–1939 calBCE (3671±40 BP, LTL-5035A)
MtDNA haplogroup (mother): K1a2a
Y-DNA haplogroup (father): R1b1a1a2a1a2 (P312)
Reference: Olalde et al. 2018

4ESQhYs.png
 
First, the Romans of the Republic, the founders of Empire, were supposed to be Scandinavian like or German like, and the Etruscans were Anatolians. I heard it here dozens of times. Now they were all Swiss or French. :)

Has anyone ever denied that steppe related ancestry entered Italy from over the Alps??? Given the linguistic analyses of Italic and Celtic, has anyone ever denied that there might have been an Italo-Celtic speaking group in Central Europe which diverged into two streams? Haven't we known that for a very, very, long time?

What we also know is that by the time they were more than a bunch of shepards shivering from malaria on their hills, they had absorbed local Chalcolithic ancestry, and a bit perhaps from further south. R437 and R850 had absorbed quite a lot.

Oh, and only one of the samples might be plotting in southern France. Just saying. :)
 
I was going to do an analysis of my own dna to highlight the Bavarian BB and Remedello Bronze connection even in a half Emilian/half Tuscan, but Duarte has closed access to his google doc. I think he may be offended that we utilized the vahaduo K12b updated, with Italian regional samples which may have been put together by a known Italian racist. Or else he got offended because I said that dna shows one can indeed divide people, more or less, into large "breeding populations", and that believing this doesn't, ipso facto make one a "racist".

It's a pity, because he's an excellent poster.

And you think I see racism everywhere, hrvclv? :)

I'll see if I can reconstruct the list from posts.
 
Sample ID / genetic sex (M/F): I2478 / M
Find location: Via Guidorossi, Parma, Emilia Romagna
Associated label in publication: Beaker Northern Italy
Date: 2194–1939 calBCE (3671±40 BP, LTL-5035A)
MtDNA haplogroup (mother): K1a2a
Y-DNA haplogroup (father): R1b1a1a2a1a2 (P312)
Reference: Olalde et al. 2018
4ESQhYs.png
you seem to have a well organised database
how did you collect and build it?
 
Does it really matter who made a tool, as long as it proves useful ?

J2YVorB.png
 
I was going to do an analysis of my own dna to highlight the Bavarian BB and Remedello Bronze connection even in a half Emilian/half Tuscan, but Duarte has closed access to his google doc. I think he may be offended that we utilized the vahaduo K12b updated, with Italian regional samples which may have been put together by a known Italian racist. Or else he got offended because I said that dna shows one can indeed divide people, more or less, into large "breeding populations", and that believing this doesn't, ipso facto make one a "racist".

It's a pity, because he's an excellent poster.

And you think I see racism everywhere, hrvclv? :)

I'll see if I can reconstruct the list from posts.


6.06036303I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge


6.86379633I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN

6.99657773I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.16551464I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
7.41494437I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.75370207Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.85352472Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.34367166I4331_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.64873049I4332_Balkans_BronzeAge
10.77930888I0706_Balkans_Neolithic
12.22507260Bavaria_BB_II5524

Iron Age:
The first sample is one which has a bit of "Armenian", i.e. Caucasus in it. It's also the only "upper class" sample we have.
9.10498215R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
9.61917356R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
9.80181106R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
10.76144972R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
10.89582948R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
10.91793937R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia

Iron Age Scythians: this is the group of assimilated "Scythians" from Moldova who are autosomally "Southern European", specifically "Tuscan like".
8.12881295ScythianSouthernMoldova_scy197
9.05183407ScythianSouthernMoldova_scy192
9.31019871ScythianMoldova_SCY300

The trajectory for my ancestry has seemed to me to point to an entrance into Italy from the southern edge of the eastern Alps. It's possible, of course, that we just don't have enough samples from more "western" entry points.

We have a member from the Romagna who gets similar results, although closer to R1, and Torzio is closer to some of the Etruscan samples.

Or, people like the Piemontese or western Lombards would show slightly different affinities. Unfortunately, none have posted.
 
First, the Romans of the Republic, the founders of Empire, were supposed to be Scandinavian like or German like, and the Etruscans were Anatolians. I heard it here dozens of times. Now they were all Swiss or French. :)

Has anyone ever denied that steppe related ancestry entered Italy from over the Alps??? Given the linguistic analyses of Italic and Celtic, has anyone ever denied that there might have been an Italo-Celtic speaking group in Central Europe which diverged into two streams? Haven't we known that for a very, very, long time?

What we also know is that by the time they were more than a bunch of shepards shivering from malaria on their hills, they had absorbed local Chalcolithic ancestry, and a bit perhaps from further south. R437 and R850 had absorbed quite a lot.

Oh, and only one of the samples might be plotting in southern France. Just saying. :)

I think what people are arguing here is simply that Proto-Italics were more probably French-like or even British-like than like some other steppe-admixed population more to the east of Switzerland/South Germany. Of course by the time Iron Age Latins, Oscans etc. existed they were not Proto-Italic anymore, but predominantly local Italians in ancestry.
 
ITA_Remedello_BA:RISE486,0.113823,0.169593,0.027907,-0.047804,0.080323,-0.025379,-0.013631,0.001385,0.059925,0.071801,0.00406,0.013788,-0.012933,-0.003991,-0.016422,-0.017767,-0.002999,0.012035,0.000754,-0.006503,0.001996,-0.003339,-0.02354,-0.027835,-0.007664
ITA_Remedello_BA:RISE487,0.124067,0.162485,0.041106,-0.045866,0.075706,-0.025658,-0.0094,0.011769,0.05154,0.096403,-0.010068,0.01079,-0.031367,-0.016652,-0.017779,-0.000663,0.013038,0.00266,0.017095,-0.018384,0.009733,0.008779,-0.019596,-0.018436,-0.004431
ITA_Remedello_BA:RISE489,0.121791,0.173656,0.041106,-0.062662,0.07663,-0.028726,-0.00564,0.004384,0.059925,0.079637,-0.006171,0.017534,-0.030773,-0.013212,-0.021172,-0.008353,0.00691,0.004561,0.015712,-0.006003,-0.003743,-0.003462,-0.012941,-0.026992,-0.007903

they are outliers on the plot
maybe Iberia BB without the steppe ancestry, so Iberian chalcolithic ?
 
I think what people are arguing here is simply that Proto-Italics were more probably French-like or even British-like than like some other steppe-admixed population more to the east of Switzerland/South Germany. Of course by the time Iron Age Latins, Oscans etc. existed they were not Proto-Italic anymore, but predominantly local Italians in ancestry.

Exactly...
 
As others have tried to point out, the modern British are not "Celts". Not even the Irish and Scottish, and perhaps not even the Welsh, are "Celts". You know that, surely.

Take a look at my post number 771. I address the issue tangentially.

As I said, Piemontese or western Lombards might skew differently. I don't know, but I don't see that pull in the results of the Italian posters on our Board.
 
6.06036303I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge
6.86379633I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN
6.99657773I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.16551464I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
7.41494437I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.75370207Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.85352472Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.34367166I4331_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.64873049I4332_Balkans_BronzeAge
10.77930888I0706_Balkans_Neolithic
12.22507260Bavaria_BB_II5524
Iron Age:
The first sample is one which has a bit of "Armenian", i.e. Caucasus in it. It's also the only "upper class" sample we have.
9.10498215R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
9.61917356R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
9.80181106R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
10.76144972R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
10.89582948R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
10.91793937R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
Iron Age Scythians: this is the group of assimilated "Scythians" from Moldova who are autosomally "Southern European", specifically "Tuscan like".
8.12881295ScythianSouthernMoldova_scy197
9.05183407ScythianSouthernMoldova_scy192
9.31019871ScythianMoldova_SCY300
The trajectory for my ancestry has seemed to me to point to an entrance into Italy from the southern edge of the eastern Alps. It's possible, of course, that we just don't have enough samples from more "western" entry points.
We have a member from the Romagna who gets similar results, although closer to R1, and Torzio is closer to some of the Etruscan samples.
Or, people like the Piemontese or western Lombards would show slightly different affinities. Unfortunately, none have posted.

Iron Age Croatians plot in modern day northern Italy, if I remember correctly.
 
they are outliers on the plot
maybe Iberia BB without the steppe ancestry, so Iberian chalcolithic ?

Yes, that's how I see it too. They are pre-steppe West-Med people, with fairly high levels of WHG.
 
I think what people are arguing here is simply that Proto-Italics were more probably French-like or even British-like than like some other steppe-admixed population more to the east of Switzerland/South Germany. Of course by the time Iron Age Latins, Oscans etc. existed they were not Proto-Italic anymore, but predominantly local Italians in ancestry.

steppe ancestry probably entered Europe probably 5 - 4,5 ka via the Carpathian Basin
from then on it got diluted more and more with European meso/neo/chalcolithic DNA
IMO the Italic people had it in already diluted form before entering Italy where they admixed further with pré-Italic Italian DNA
so, Indeed these Italic people prior to entering Italy could very well have been Halstatt-like
 

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