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How "low quality"? Are there other samples on the datasheet of similar or "lower" quality?
Is there access to them for independent modeling?
As to the Greeks from Empuries, the post from LTG using G25 seems to indicate that one of the Empuries' samples has more "Iranian" type ancestry than the Mycenaeans, doesn't it? Unless you mean that it's still roughly in the same range. I had already speculated that the more Iranian heavy sample might be from Ionian Greece.
I ran a K-means cluster analysis on the Imperial Romans in PAST (data program for PCA�s, neighbor joining trees and other analysis). I removed the obvious outlier samples that fell somewhere long the MENA cline. I then asked the program to divide the remaining samples into 4 distinct clusters based on their genetic correlation before working out the average of these different cluster groups. Once the centroid had been found I ran those coordinates against the Global 25 datasheet to find their closest population representatives; they happened to coincide with certain genetic locations for the most part.
C1) West Mediterranean
RMPR37, RMPR111, RMPR116
C2) Aegean
RMPR39, RMPR40, RMPR41,RMPR43, RMPR44, RMPR50, RMPR51, RMPR66, RMPR69, RMPR72, RMPR75, RMPR78, RMPR81, RMPR114, RMPR115, RMPR123, RMPR126, RMPR1543, RMPR1545
C3) Anatolia
RMPR38, RMPR128, RMPR76
C4) South Italy
RMPR45, RMPR47, RMPR49, RMPR73, RMPR80, RMPR113, RMPR125, RMPR131, RMPR132, RMPR436, RMPR835, RMPR836, RMPR1544, RMPR1548, RMPR1549
Political forces of both sides weaponize ignorance. Far-leftists use the 19th, and 20th century Nordicist standard of race, to make their arguments. It is an outmoded straw man only used by people that don't know anything about human population genetics.
We are in a perverse era where everyone uses things as they please and dares to share identities in the same way.
Thanks.
Could you list the sample numbers for the ones you removed, i.e. the ones in the Middle Eastern cline?
They look like they have origins in Lebanon and Syria.
It's pretty funny how the media jumped all over the apparent fact that Romans were very similar to people from this region. These guys compromised a mere 14.5% of Imperial Roman samples, and that is after the researchers purposefully excavated the most cosmopolitan areas that they could possibly find.
C5) Middle East
RMPR1551, RMPR67, RMPR68, RMPR42, RMPR1547, RMPR1550, RMPR70
Exactly so, same arguments for apparently different reasons.
The issue of identity can be painful for some migrants, especially the first generations, and I fully understand that. Their identity is no longer that of their countries of origin and not yet that of the countries where they were born and raised. I think she lacks complete self-awareness of what she is, and she is using exactly the same arguments as the nordicists.
In any case, it is wrong to manipulate ancient history to give an answer to the problems of contemporary society, and this applies to both far-right propaganda and its opposite. So let's get back to the topic.
same goes for the far-right.Far-leftists use the 19th, and 20th century Nordicist standard of race, to make their arguments. It is an outmoded straw man only used by people that don't know anything about human population genetics.
be aware of the fact that many people in the new country do not even want to give her the same identity even if she was born and raised there. see the thread of angela about turks in germany.
when i read her text, yes it sounds somehow wrong but she is right in some way. and it looks like it is adressed at spanish nordicists and racists, the core of the article is true and is something that purists don't want to realize. consider a german author who wrote exactly the same thing adressing german racists, but instead of the moors the author writes about balkans, italy or greece.
yes it would be a bit of a lie because the dark features in germans did not necessarily come from those people but still they shared the same source populations and thus they have similar features, and they really just aren't pure.
be aware of the fact that many people in the new country do not even want to give her the same identity even if she was born and raised there. see the thread of angela about turks in germany.
when i read her text, yes it sounds somehow wrong but she is right in some way. and it looks like it is adressed at spanish nordicists and racists, the core of the article is true and is something that purists don't want to realize. consider a german author who wrote exactly the same thing adressing german racists, but instead of the moors the author writes about balkans, italy or greece.
yes it would be a bit of a lie because the dark features in germans did not necessarily come from those people but still they shared the same source populations and thus they have similar features, and they really just aren't pure. same goes for the far-right.
They're most likely from here. Do you have exact information about the date of these samples? It is not surprising that there were also migrants to Rome from this part of the Empire.
Edit: found.
Monterotondo
Date range: 26 BCE - 300 CE
Individuals: R1551, R1547, R1550
ANAS (Azienda Nazionale Autonoma delle Strade)
Date range: 100 - 300 CE
Individuals: R67, R68, R70
Isola Sacra necropolis
Date Range: 1 CE - 400 CE
Individuals: R42
Moors are just Berbers that have been arabanized from after the end of the Roman and Vandal periodsmaybe Vox is wrong, but this author is worse
she is identifying todays North Africans with the Moors
the Moors are something of the past, they are neither todays Spaniards nor todays North Africans
their cultural identity was something completely different
and I am not an expert in history, but there even is not such thing like 'The Moors', because the Moors of the 8th century were quite different from the Moors of the 14th century
They look like they have origins in Lebanon and Syria.
It's pretty funny how the media jumped all over the apparent fact that Romans were very similar to people from this region. These guys compromised a mere 14.5% of Imperial Roman samples, and that is after the researchers purposefully excavated the most cosmopolitan areas that they could possibly find.
C5) Middle East
RMPR1551, RMPR67, RMPR68, RMPR42, RMPR1547, RMPR1550, RMPR70
Where will sample R1 fit.....a proto-villanovan
Distance to: | ITA_Proto-Villanovan |
---|---|
0.02247622 | Italian_Lombardy |
0.02469763 | Italian_Piedmont |
0.02693698 | Italian_Bergamo |
0.02854606 | Italian_Liguria |
0.02981491 | Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige |
0.03032773 | Italian_Veneto |
0.03042507 | Greek_Thessaly |
0.03150689 | Swiss_Italian |
0.03187754 | Italian_Tuscany |
0.03430165 | Italian_Northeast |
The Proto-Villanovan is part of the Western Mediterranean cluster (C1).
Distance to: ITA_Proto-Villanovan 0.02247622 Italian_Lombardy 0.02469763 Italian_Piedmont 0.02693698 Italian_Bergamo 0.02854606 Italian_Liguria 0.02981491 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige 0.03032773 Italian_Veneto 0.03042507 Greek_Thessaly 0.03150689 Swiss_Italian 0.03187754 Italian_Tuscany 0.03430165 Italian_Northeast
The Proto-Villanovan is part of the West Mediterranean cluster (C1).
Distance to: ITA_Proto-Villanovan 0.02247622 Italian_Lombardy 0.02469763 Italian_Piedmont 0.02693698 Italian_Bergamo 0.02854606 Italian_Liguria 0.02981491 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige 0.03032773 Italian_Veneto 0.03042507 Greek_Thessaly 0.03150689 Swiss_Italian 0.03187754 Italian_Tuscany 0.03430165 Italian_Northeast
Where will sample R1 fit.....a proto-villanovan
Where does Greek Thessaly's value come from? The Greeks in the G25 are certainly mostly from Northern Greece but there is no Greek Thessaly label anywhere in G25.
They were updated today.
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