what if south italy was like minoans, somewhere between modern south italy and ABA, roughly were the east med/near east cluster is located? the C6 cluster started to exist later because those south italians mixed with the central/north italians and a bit from more north? italy might have been a cline from latin-like to minoan/ABA like.
this "near east tail", individuals south of modern south italians, was maybe only partially caused by migrants from near east during imperial age.
It wasn't a Near Eastern Tail, it was called a "Levant Tail". I will be surprised if there was a lot of it in Southern Italy during the first Millennium BC, although there may have been some. What was probably there was a tail into Anatolia, if you like, so pretty Mycenaean like. The Mycenaeans are pretty damn close to those Imperial Samples anyway, the ones that aren't part of the tail into the Levant.
I still think there was a large community in Rome, and probably in other Italian port cities, and port cities like Massalia, if they ever check them, and more to be found in ports in Spain, of Jews, Phoenicians/Syrians, and others who were there as craftsmen and merchants, people who had their own ethnic enclaves and burial sites. Did some intermarry with their hosts and leave descendants behind? Probably, as happens in New York City with its own ethnic enclaves. Most, however, probably largely did not, again if we take our lessons from history. How much intermarriage is there in London between Muslims and "local" British people? Religion is a huge barrier to integration, as are vastly different customs. As I said, it took 1000 years for the WHG and EEF to start to mingle. How many local Romans do you think would have been willing to undergo adult male circumcision in order to marry a Jewish bride. Jewish girls were barely let out of the house by themselves.
Largely, they just disappeared as historical conditions changed. Once again, just look at what happens to yDna "J1". Trade moved, craft worked died out. Then there was the 6th century plague and just the general destruction of the cities.
Did, as Khan now opines, some change come from movement from the north? Yes, a bit, but if the change came from Northern movement, it was mostly northern Italians, not some mythical movement from western Europe, not even Central Eastern Europe as one would expect from Goths and Lombards.
We've been down this road before. Hellenthal et al, including that dunderhead Christian Capelli, from whom I expected better things, was convinced the "mixing" he saw was from a mass migration during Antiquity and Early Medieval times into Italy from the Near East. The dunderheads at anthrogenica eagerly jumped onto the bandwagon. I argued at the time until I was blue in the face that there was NO evidence in history or archaeology of any such movement. Like wise, there is no indication of any movement post Imperial Age of masses of people from Spain and France moving into Italy. It just didn't happen.
If Polako tries to prove it through his usual massaging of the data, it's just plain crap.
In that regard, regard with extreme caution anything based on his K-36 data. For goodness' sakes, it's like bringing in an art forger to authenticate art for you. How can you possible trust him?
People involved in this hobby should spend a year in a criminal prosecution bureau. It would cure the incredible naivete I see on constant display.
Our discussion of the wrong headed Hellenthal et al paper. Never do population genetics based on modern samples, especially when you don't have a clue about archaeology or history.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...ddle-age-admixture-event?highlight=Hellenthal