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Thread: Britain's Political Revolution

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    Britain's Political Revolution



    Not only have the Tories won the election, they've won it resoundingly, taking seats they haven't held since 1945, and some they haven't held for a hundred years.

    Amazingly, they've even taken some seats in Labour centers like Manchester.

    Is it all about Brexit, and wanting to leave the European Union, or hatred of unrestricted immigration or racism?

    I absolutely don't think so. As many have noted from the commentariat class, this is a working class revolt.

    The white working class is in free fall, not only in Britain, but in the U.S. and other countries as well. People educated for the post industrial area don't give a damn about illegal, low skills immigrants flooding the country, whether they come from Africa or Mexico, or, in England, from Poland or the Balkans. It just means more cheap gardeners, housekeepers, and plumbers.

    It's the people who are put out of jobs, or have to accept lower wages for those jobs who care.

    They're also increasingly threatened by automation. Robots are stocking shelves in supermarkets, slicing the meat, robotic trucks will take away one of the few high paying jobs left for working class people.

    What is the result, in the U.S. longevity is declining because white males are increasingly killing themselves with alcohol, and their children with heroin.

    I've been clanging this bell for years. It started to show with the election of Donald Trump. Now we see it writ large in Britain.

    When are people going to wake up to this crisis and develop policies to deal with it???

    "Andrew Sullivan @sullydish · 18h One lesson from the UK: if the Democrats don't stop their hard-left slide, they'll suffer the same fate as Labour. If they don't move off their support for mass immigration, they're toast. Ditto the wokeness. Left Twitter is not reality."

    I'm beginning to think this is part of what is driving the Trump impeachment frenzy. They're afraid they're going to lose again.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    It's not immigrants that do work that destroy the country.
    It's those that don't. Both immigrants and non-immigrants.
    Those who are addicted to welfare have to be activated.
    And immigrants shouldn't be rewarded with welfare to which they've never contributed.

    The European problem is that their social security is to generous, and that they don't select immigrants.
    To many immigrants are not ambitious or don't have the proper skills, and are attracted by welfare which is open for them too.

    But you can't blaim immigrants for white males - and females - being addicted to alcohol or drugs.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    You might not feel that way if you were a construction worker or gardener or cook who either can't get a job or has to accept less money because so many migrants are taking those jobs at lower pay.

    As for the drug abuse and alcoholism, when men lose their jobs and can't support their families they have often turned to alcohol. Now it's alcohol and drugs.

    These are old patterns being played out.

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    Industrialised world has lost from globalisation. Its the beginning of the end of globalisation. Eu in current form will not last.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    People educated for the post industrial area don't give a damn about illegal, low skills immigrants flooding the country, whether they come from Africa or Mexico, or, in England, from Poland or the Balkans. It just means more cheap gardeners, housekeepers, and plumbers.
    european countries are nowhere near beeing "flooded" with illegals or with low skill immigrants. also if the migrants work like the poles in england, the country actually profits from them. those migrants partially might contribute to wage dumping but many of the jobs they do would still be unattractive even without this migration. in certain areas increasing the wages would also not be possible without a reduction in personnel or increased prizes.

    also if you think the middle class is suffering then shouldn't we also look at skilled immigrants and not just low skill immigrants?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You might not feel that way if you were a construction worker or gardener or cook who either can't get a job or has to accept less money because so many migrants are taking those jobs at lower pay.
    As for the drug abuse and alcoholism, when men lose their jobs and can't support their families they have often turned to alcohol. Now it's alcohol and drugs.
    These are old patterns being played out.
    I don't think these patterns are so old.

    Or maybe the alcoholics and drug abusers didn't survive very long back then.
    We created a society allowing them to survive now.

    Yes it is hard to accept a job for less money, but it is shamefull to refuse these jobs, live on welfare and rely on immigrants do the jobs instead.
    These people should get the change to learn other skills, and maybe it will pay somewhat less but they shouldn't be allowed to indulge in welfare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I don't think these patterns are so old.

    Or maybe the alcoholics and drug abusers didn't survive very long back then.
    We created a society allowing them to survive now.

    Yes it is hard to accept a job for less money, but it is shamefull to refuse these jobs, live on welfare and rely on immigrants do the jobs instead.
    These people should get the change to learn other skills, and maybe it will pay somewhat less but they shouldn't be allowed to indulge in welfare.
    not sure about other european countries but i think in switzerland you can't live on welfare for ever. at some point they will force people to take a job and even if it is located on the other side of switzerland. that's probably similar in the other countries. if you can show that you are incapable of doing work then they won't force you, and some people abuse this by feigning an affliction. but as you already said those tricksters are coming from everywhere.

    and would you take a low wage job eventhough you have qualifications for something better? wouldn't you try to get something better asap either inside the country or if that doesn't work move abroad?

    it sounds as if immigrants go to certain countries just because the people there all live on welfare instead of doing the dirty work. that's not true. why do you think italy has a "brain drain"? people want to work but certainly not for low wages when there are way better opportunities abroad.

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    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Belgium is the worst.
    When you become unemployed, your unemploiment benefit is unlimited in time.
    Last federal government wanted to abolish this, but they didn't succeed before they fell one year ago.
    There is a huge difference between in mentality Flemish north and Walloon south.
    The north votes liberal, the south socialist.
    There are families in Wallonia who are proud to say that they are the 2nd generation that does not work and lives on welfare benefits.
    They are not representative for Wallonia as a whole, but it exists.

    Also in Belgium more and more young people work abroad.
    Belgium has one of the highest tax rates in the world, and the main cost is the social security.
    In the end the social security will cause either a split of Belgium or brain drain.

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    Labour is no longer the party of Britain's working class.


    The same will soon be true of the Democrat Party. They should be renamed the "WOKE" party or the The Special Interest Party.

    The first politician who champions programs not just for the middle class, but for the working class and even the poor working class by bringing back good paying jobs, makes sure there is a safety net only for those who really need it, stops mass immigration by unskilled people, just pays no attention at all to all the WOKE political nonsense flooded onto Twitter by a vocal minority, and has the "common touch" and communication ability of a Donald Trump without the dysfunction and egomania will win in a landslide.

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    the political landscape seems to be changing in almost all western countries

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    i think this isn't just a "working class" revolt. there certainly were many other factors involved including the aversion towards immigration itself and sorrows about the national identity. the additional competition that might come from EU migration isn't just coming from low-skill migrants too.

    according to this figure the migrants from eastern european EU states are more skilled than the brits themselves, those from non-EU countries too. this probably increases the aversion towards migrants. it doesn't decrease it.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46618532



    and looking at this graphic here it doesn't seem like leaving the EU will have such a big effect on migration, since the migrants from EU who are becoming less anyways, are just replaced with migrants from non-EU countries. those who are needed will be allowed to enter anyways afterwards.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46618532

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    I think English left the EU since they saw it as German dominated organisation. They also were hurt by large numbers of emigrants entering the country. Only the high skilled English were benefiting from participating in it. If I was English I also would have voted leave.
    However, leaving does not translate better economics for England. Even if England gets a favorable trade deal with USA, american workforce is way qualified compared with English one, since Usa keeps a large amount of international graduates. But English might have settled for less economy, better control of their borders,.
    I see the international role of England reduced gradually reduced to a supporting role rather than leading voice.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Labour is no longer the party of Britain's working class.


    The same will soon be true of the Democrat Party. They should be renamed the "WOKE" party or the The Special Interest Party.

    The first politician who champions programs not just for the middle class, but for the working class and even the poor working class by bringing back good paying jobs, makes sure there is a safety net only for those who really need it, stops mass immigration by unskilled people, just pays no attention at all to all the WOKE political nonsense flooded onto Twitter by a vocal minority, and has the "common touch" and communication ability of a Donald Trump without the dysfunction and egomania will win in a landslide.
    I always thought that if you take the left wing of the Republican Party and the center/right wing of the Democratic Party they could rule for the next 100 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I always thought that if you take the left wing of the Republican Party and the center/right wing of the Democratic Party they could rule for the next 100 years.
    Exactly right.

    That's exactly where I sit and I'm not happy with anyone currently running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I always thought that if you take the left wing..........

    Ever notice the debauchery in the decline of Rome. Enslaving children-sex trafficking -for their own pleasure. With no consequences. While at the same time giving elaborate speeches pointing out everyone shortcomings, while asking for money in their pay to play schemes.

    Be wary of those who graduate from the university of perversity & diversity by destroying and
    demonizing the past, underestimating the present, and glorifying the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Ever notice the debauchery in the decline of Rome. Enslaving children-sex trafficking -for their own pleasure. With no consequences. While at the same time giving elaborate speeches pointing out everyone shortcomings, while asking for money in their pay to play schemes.
    And this is relevant to his point how, exactly?

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    I always thought the socially liberal/fiscally moderate or conservative types were dangerously naive. You can either have traditional family and churches or you can have the welfare state, but you've got to have one. The Reagan Democrat is now the Trump Republican. I am proud of my working class, Swamp Yankee roots. There are tons of empty mills in my area, Kent County, Rhode Island, some of them are now being turned into condos. Mill owners fleeing the unionization of Northeast workers took their mills south, but then free trade took them out of the country. We're not a producing country anymore, we're a consuming country. I guess I find that sad, as the son of an old pipe fitter, a man with welding scars as old as I am.

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    It was a victory for National Populism, and the wave is still a long way from cresting
    See in general the study by Eatwell & Goodwin, published last year
    https://www.amazon.com/National-Popu.../dp/B07CV45TCM

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    In my opinion people do not have a correct perception of reality. They believe what their prejudices ask for and vote with more fear than critical thinking. My mother's boyfriend has a miserable pension and serious problems to survive between pay and pay. But the threat he perceives is immigration, (and he is an Argentine immigrant), the independence of Catalonia and street safety (Spain has one of the lowest murder and robbery rates in all of Europe). He votes to his fear, and that is what I think British voters do.

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    People buy the truth they want to believe and it is the truth that explains their fears, not their real problems, that they buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jandroral View Post
    In my opinion people do not have a correct perception of reality. They believe what their prejudices ask for and vote with more fear than critical thinking. My mother's boyfriend has a miserable pension and serious problems to survive between pay and pay. But the threat he perceives is immigration, (and he is an Argentine immigrant), the independence of Catalonia and street safety (Spain has one of the lowest murder and robbery rates in all of Europe). He votes to his fear, and that is what I think British voters do.
    You may be right, but don't assume that people who think differently than you do so because they're stupid.

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