torzio
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Vahaduo NEW! All Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo ON-LINE
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Angela
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The Black Death hit the coastal populations first originally because it spread by sea. The first victims were passengers on ships from the Crimea and the ships stopped at ports along the way before going back to Genova. Others ships went to Venezia. Either way, some of them stopped first in Constantinople, Messina etc. The plague was brought to the Crimea by the Mongols. I've seen speculation it was picked up from steppe rodents like marmots.
The perhaps apocryphal story is that during the siege, the Mongols tossed the bodies of infected people into the European fortresses. By catapult, maybe? If true, that's a much more potent weapon than anything man made.
That doesn't "necessarily" mean that's where it hit hardest. Fivizzano in the Lunigiana, up in the mountains, lost 90% of its inhabitants, which is some kind of record. It had the misfortune to be on one of the trade routes from the Italian coastal cities up and over the mountains at the crossings and then on to the Po Plain.
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/msItalyBD-56a48e753df78cf77282f30d.gif)
Whether you got it depended on a combination of exposure and natural immunities or lack thereof. The best thing to do was to isolate yourself, as Boccaccio recounts in "The Decameron". Eat, drink, and tell stories, and don't let anyone sick come inside.
The perhaps apocryphal story is that during the siege, the Mongols tossed the bodies of infected people into the European fortresses. By catapult, maybe? If true, that's a much more potent weapon than anything man made.
That doesn't "necessarily" mean that's where it hit hardest. Fivizzano in the Lunigiana, up in the mountains, lost 90% of its inhabitants, which is some kind of record. It had the misfortune to be on one of the trade routes from the Italian coastal cities up and over the mountains at the crossings and then on to the Po Plain.
Whether you got it depended on a combination of exposure and natural immunities or lack thereof. The best thing to do was to isolate yourself, as Boccaccio recounts in "The Decameron". Eat, drink, and tell stories, and don't let anyone sick come inside.
Angela
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for what it is worth
modern italians as per an italian site
I have no comment on this,................
It looks reasonable for my areas.
Jovialis
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I think it is K15
based on Grugni 2018 paper
and this regional data
This is also based on K15:
Jovialis
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Bolded are new coordinates for Dodecad K12b; more to come:
IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0.14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435,4.84,0.64,0.65,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33.19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47.15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33,0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.23,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24.04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34
MA_Villa_Magna_R60,6.75,0.68,3.35,0,27.36,18.94,0,1.54,11.04,0,30.34,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0,0,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
MA_Villa_Magna_R57,6.89,0,2.97,0.58,27.50,15.59,0,0,0.58,0,34.62,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R59,4.24,0,2.25,0.19,28.74,15.80,0.31,0,12.53,0.66,34.39,0.88
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970,9.25,0,5.12,0.53,29.32,18.41,0,0,7.11,0,30.25,0.01
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973,8.17,0.16,2.94,0,28.76,15.28,0,0,10.56,0.15,33.57,0.40
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969,6.45,0.25,0.99,0,30.40,17.81,0.65,1.10,11.67,0,30.67,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R1290,6.30,0,1.09,0.34,30.16,15.96,0.27,0,12.04,0.09,32.81,0.93
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,10.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.95,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121,7.68,0,2.81,0,29.21,18.18,0,0.90,11.76,0,29.47,0
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118,7.28,0.85,1.85,0,34.72,14.81,0,0,11.95,0,28.29,0.24
LA_Celio_R36,7.23,0,3.17,0,32.85,20.10,0,0.35,9.77,0,26.50,0.02
IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0.14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435,4.84,0.64,0.65,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33.19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47.15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33,0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.23,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24.04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34
MA_Villa_Magna_R60,6.75,0.68,3.35,0,27.36,18.94,0,1.54,11.04,0,30.34,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0,0,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
MA_Villa_Magna_R57,6.89,0,2.97,0.58,27.50,15.59,0,0,0.58,0,34.62,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R59,4.24,0,2.25,0.19,28.74,15.80,0.31,0,12.53,0.66,34.39,0.88
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970,9.25,0,5.12,0.53,29.32,18.41,0,0,7.11,0,30.25,0.01
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973,8.17,0.16,2.94,0,28.76,15.28,0,0,10.56,0.15,33.57,0.40
MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969,6.45,0.25,0.99,0,30.40,17.81,0.65,1.10,11.67,0,30.67,0
MA_Villa_Magna_R1290,6.30,0,1.09,0.34,30.16,15.96,0.27,0,12.04,0.09,32.81,0.93
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,10.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.95,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121,7.68,0,2.81,0,29.21,18.18,0,0.90,11.76,0,29.47,0
LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118,7.28,0.85,1.85,0,34.72,14.81,0,0,11.95,0,28.29,0.24
LA_Celio_R36,7.23,0,3.17,0,32.85,20.10,0,0.35,9.77,0,26.50,0.02
Jovialis
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| Distance to: | Jovialis |
|---|---|
| 3.02061252 | MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973 |
| 3.43008746 | LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121 |
| 3.70737104 | Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836 |
| 3.83489244 | MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970 |
| 4.06829202 | MA_Villa_Magna_R60 |
| 4.18988067 | MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969 |
| 4.49402937 | MA_Villa_Magna_R1290 |
| 6.31831465 | MA_Villa_Magna_R59 |
| 6.33613447 | MA_Villa_Magna_R65 |
| 6.93178909 | C_Italian |
| 7.03068275 | Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549 |
| 7.06252788 | LA_Celio_R36 |
| 7.53431483 | LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118 |
| 7.54746315 | IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437 |
| 7.94664709 | O_Italian |
| 8.53400258 | S_Italian_Sicilian |
| 8.78169118 | Sicilian |
| 8.86584457 | Greek |
| 10.09450841 | MA_Villa_Magna_R57 |
| 10.43502755 | Tuscan |
| 10.94765728 | Crimean_Tatar_Coast |
| 11.25284853 | Albanian_Kosovo |
| 11.33426663 | TSI30 |
| 11.35261203 | Greek_Crete |
| 11.67082259 | Ashkenazy_Jews |
| Target: Jovialis Distance: 0.5556% / 0.55559557 | ADC: 0.5x | |
|---|---|
| 32.6 | MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973 |
| 30.6 | MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970 |
| 23.2 | LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121 |
| 13.6 | Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836 |
torzio
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The Black Death hit the coastal populations first originally because it spread by sea. The first victims were passengers on ships from the Crimea and the ships stopped at ports along the way before going back to Genova. Others ships went to Venezia. Either way, some of them stopped first in Constantinople, Messina etc. The plague was brought to the Crimea by the Mongols. I've seen speculation it was picked up from steppe rodents like marmots.
The perhaps apocryphal story is that during the siege, the Mongols tossed the bodies of infected people into the European fortresses. By catapult, maybe? If true, that's a much more potent weapon than anything man made.
That doesn't "necessarily" mean that's where it hit hardest. Fivizzano in the Lunigiana, up in the mountains, lost 90% of its inhabitants, which is some kind of record. It had the misfortune to be on one of the trade routes from the Italian coastal cities up and over the mountains at the crossings and then on to the Po Plain.
Whether you got it depended on a combination of exposure and natural immunities or lack thereof. The best thing to do was to isolate yourself, as Boccaccio recounts in "The Decameron". Eat, drink, and tell stories, and don't let anyone sick come inside.
Tana was the Venetian town ( now Azov ) and Kaffa the Genoese town
Messina was only visited by Genoese as Venetians went to their town of Corfu
torzio
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This is also based on K15:
so are you saying ...the bottom pca is based on the data above ?
Regio X
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Curiously, I get higher Atlantic than all in this sheet, and more West Asian than all North Italians except Romagna. This high Atlantic % of mine must be related to certain overfits also in FTDNA, MyHeritage and the old DNA Land, while 23andMe does a better job.I think it is K15
based on Grugni 2018 paper
and this regional data
Jovialis
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If it is indeed, k15, than yes. I need to verify that.
Jovialis
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Even so, the PCA I posted does look incompatible with the academic PCAs in many regards. Eurogenes isn't good for Southern Europeans.
Jovialis
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I think it is K15
based on Grugni 2018 paper
and this regional data
Here are the K15 values added to vahaduo, courtesy of mlukas. They are in order according to how gedmatch shows them, separated by commas. They are the ones I used for the PCA I composed:
Italy_Aostavalley,26.62,25.03,7.48,4.39,17.71,6.75,9.38,1.80,0.00,0.02,0.17,0.19,0.14,0.15,0.16
Italy_Piedmont,21.38,25.13,7.86,4.01,19.32,6.70,12.69,2.19,0.11,0.01,0.06,0.12,0.24,0.13,0.03
Italy_Trentino,21.92,21.72,11.28,5.55,18.46,5.83,13.09,1.32,0.00,0.03,0.11,0.16,0.47,0.06,0.00
Italy_Abruzzo,11.25,15.03,6.36,2.91,16.39,15.65,26.38,5.48,0.00,0.08,0.00,0.00,0.23,0.17,0.07
Italy_Apulia,9.50,14.93,6.66,2.94,17.44,14.90,27.24,4.99,0.03,0.05,0.00,0.18,0.58,0.55,0.01
Italy_Calabria,8.07,12.92,4.55,1.98,17.48,15.12,31.66,6.46,0.13,0.11,0.04,0.09,0.36,0.97,0.07
Italy_Campania,8.83,15.10,5.33,2.06,18.31,14.96,29.68,5.57,0.12,0.14,0.04,0.06,0.13,0.56,0.08
Italy_Central_Sicily,8.94,14.64,4.78,1.31,17.60,14.12,29.14,6.68,0.05,0.15,0.03,0.14,0.20,1.84,0.36
Italy_East_Sicily,8.07,12.81,4.41,1.82,18.07,15.44,30.59,6.26,0.22,0.18,0.13,0.07,0.23,1.20,0.48
Italy_West_Sicily,9.37,13.38,4.79,1.71,18.12,13.93,30.01,5.89,0.32,0.25,0.05,0.16,0.21,0.98,0.85
Italy_Emiliaromagna,17.94,19.13,7.04,3.17,20.08,8.91,19.65,3.29,0.03,0.12,0.00,0.04,0.29,0.15,0.02
Italy_Friuli,19.00,21.50,10.42,6.03,17.50,7.38,14.76,2.41,0.28,0.15,0.02,0.34,0.06,0.13,0.00
Italy_Lazio,15.18,17.36,7.06,2.43,19.99,9.92,23.83,3.74,0.07,0.14,0.03,0.10,0.03,0.05,0.09
Italy_Liguria,18.23,21.71,6.84,3.24,20.21,7.98,17.82,3.03,0.11,0.17,0.07,0.23,0.24,0.03,0.08
Italy_Lombardy,21.50,22.45,6.34,2.73,20.71,6.38,16.91,2.27,0.11,0.21,0.08,0.06,0.16,0.07,0.00
Italy_Marche,15.34,17.26,5.97,2.22,19.56,11.73,22.54,4.32,0.21,0.10,0.00,0.37,0.10,0.27,0.07
Italy_Tuscany,17.25,20.05,6.52,2.79,20.41,9.07,19.20,3.54,0.57,0.25,0.02,0.06,0.14,0.08,0.02
Italy_Veneto,21.07,21.37,8.50,5.45,18.65,7.15,14.69,2.42,0.14,0.18,0.05,0.08,0.15,0.09,0.00
Italian_Jewish,8.10,12.62,2.23,1.13,17.84,12.08,33.85,8.25,0.07,0.65,0.21,0.08,0.75,2.14,0.01
Angela
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This is also based on K15:
The PCA from the body of the Antonio et al (Moots) paper is indeed a bit different. The R850 isn't quite as "southern", and the Etruscans and more Etruscan like Latins are shifted over a bit so they are sort of "in between" Spain and Northern Italy?
Anyway, thanks for the update on the samples.
This is my updated Dodecad K12b...
| 3.80336693 | TSI30 |
| 5.63808478 | Tuscan |
| 5.91498943 | North_Italian |
| 6.22841874 | N_Italian |
| 8.70606685 | O_Italian |
| 8.92554760 | IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016 |
| 9.07843048 | C_Italian |
| 9.47641282 | IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015 |
| 9.74779462 | LA_Celio_R36 |
| 9.81848257 | IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1 |
| 10.57665354 | IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021 |
| 10.65957316 | LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118 |
| 10.77751827 | IA_Civitavecchia_R473 |
| 10.82190833 | IA_Civitavecchia_R474 |
| 12.90000388 | IA_Latin_Ardea_R851 |
| 13.22874522 | MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969 |
| 13.51517665 | MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970 |
| 14.11183546 | LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121 |
| 14.21805894 | Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836 |
| 14.37636254 | IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437 |
| 14.41470083 | Albanian_Kosovo |
| 14.62978127 | MA_Villa_Magna_R1290 |
| 14.72641504 | Albanian_North |
| 15.48640694 | MA_Villa_Magna_R60 |
| 15.65395797 | Baleares |
Maybe it didn't really change because the Imperial samples are even further away for me? I do get a few Late Antiquity and quite a few from the Middle Ages.
Thanks so much for all this work, Jovialis.
torzio
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I have no issue with which you use .............but my snippet is via the paper and yours is via gedmatch and what samples are these?.........the getmatch could be correct or not since the paper ones is from 2018
torzio
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you should add the missing ones.....like malta, ticino etc
Salento
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I added Salento (top image / Grugni 2018 paper).
Puglia was my 1st Match, but now it is Salento.
Salento is in Puglia, so in my case 1st or 2nd doesn’t make much of a difference.
It makes perfect sense, I was born in Salento, and my name is Salento
Puglia was my 1st Match, but now it is Salento.
Salento is in Puglia, so in my case 1st or 2nd doesn’t make much of a difference.
It makes perfect sense, I was born in Salento, and my name is Salento
torzio
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I added Salento (top image / Grugni 2018 paper).
Puglia was my 1st Match, but now it is Salento.
Salento is in Puglia, so in my case 1st or 2nd doesn’t make much of a difference.
It makes perfect sense, I was born in Salento, and my name is Salento
so Salento is more exacting as it is a certain area of puglia?
Lukas
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Added Collegno, Szolad and Crusader samples to K13 ancient http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13_ancient-vahaduo.htm
http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13_ancient-vahaduo.htm
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