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Thread: NEW! All Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo ON-LINE

  1. #276
    Regular Member TardisBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    Can you post guys your Dodecad K12b Upodated SINGLE results? Without ancients but using new Italian?
    Results of a French-Italian hybrid:




  2. #277
    Regular Member Stuvanè's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    Can you post guys your Dodecad K12b Upodated SINGLE results? Without ancients but using new Italian?
    @mlukas, I repost my Dodecad k12b results with a better resolution




  3. #278
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    Can you post guys your Dodecad K12b Upodated SINGLE results? Without ancients but using new Italian?

  4. #279
    Regular Member dosas's Avatar
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    These calculator look too over-fitted at default distances. Calculating at 0.25x ADC seems to yield the best fits for me.

    K13 Modern:

    Target: dosas_K13_updated
    Distance: 2.1876% / 2.18762739 | ADC: 0.25x
    35.6 Greek_Istanbul
    25.6 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
    19.6 Greek_Cappadocian
    13.8 Greek_Trabzon
    2.4 Talysh
    2.0 Turk_Central_East
    0.8 Lebanese_Druze
    0.2 Papuan

    distances:

    Distance to: dosas_K13_updated
    9.10488331 Greek_Chios
    9.66534014 Greek_Istanbul
    9.76451740 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
    11.47607511 Turk_Central_West
    11.92930006 Greek_Andros_Island
    11.98338016 Central_Greek
    12.17818952 Greek_Cappadocian
    12.42683789 Turk_Anatolia
    12.70353494 Turk_North_West
    12.73903450 Turk_Central_East
    13.04882083 Greek_Dodecanese
    13.33643131 Campania
    13.42636958 East_Sicilian
    13.45735115 Turkish_mixed
    13.45896727 Calabria
    13.48114238 Sicily
    13.98362971 Turk_South
    14.00540610 Malta
    14.08844917 Apulia
    14.35110100 Greek_Symi_Island
    14.40695087 GR_Macedonia
    14.55444262 Greek_Peloponnese
    14.56436404 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
    14.57889571 GR_Peloponese
    14.77456598 Turk_Cypriot

    Ancient:

    Distance to: dosas_K13_ancient
    10.90837293 CrusaderSI53KingdomofJerusalem
    12.86207604 IA_Ardea_R850
    13.08955691 i1632_areni_merged
    13.12549809 CL30_collegno_italy_longobard
    13.48570725 CL38_collegno_italy_longobard
    14.40491930 CL25_collegno_italy_longobard
    15.81591920 ArmeniaCA_I1631_Armenia_425004050_BC
    17.28835157 SZ40_szolad_hungary_longobard
    17.56616065 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian
    17.98795708 Chalcolithic_Age_Anatolian_Barcinhoyuk._Turkey_394 3_BC
    18.07310156 IA_Prenestina_Selicata_R437
    20.05601655 SZ31_szolad_hungary_longobard
    20.45721389 CL121_collegno_italy_longobard
    22.63874997 SZ1.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    22.71609121 I3808_morisco_I3808_morisco
    22.78710820 SZ37_szolad_hungary_longobard
    23.74635762 SZ36.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    24.22084846 SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_6-th_century
    24.65392869 SZ32_szolad_hungary_longobard
    24.69946558 I7499_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE2
    25.05209572 CL31_collegno_italy_longobard
    25.17276902 I8215_2iberia
    25.20574141 I8215_3iberia
    25.31654400 I3808_iberia
    25.35147727 RISE423_Armenian_MBA

    K12b is also too over-fitted at default, it looks more streamlined at 0.25 ADC.

    Target: dosas_K12b_updated
    Distance: 1.6422% / 1.64218861 | ADC: 0.25x
    63.8 Crimean_Tatar_Coast
    11.4 Cypriots
    10.6 Adygei
    9.0 Greek
    4.2 Ashkenazy_Jews
    1.0 Samaritians

    Dodecad doesn't have a Pontian Greek reference, so it paints me as a Crimean Tatar, which is totally fine by me .

    I still think the G25 project is much more superior to these calculators.

  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuvanè View Post
    @Angela, I'm roughly in your same conditions as actually using these Eurogenes calculators, but if I have to give a preference between the two, the k13 seems to me in my case a bit more realistic and specific in its oracles, although it works with fewer autosomal components

    K13

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 28.3
    2 East_Med 22.12
    3 West_Med 21.48
    4 Baltic 13.51
    5 West_Asian 9.73
    6 Red_Sea 4.38
    7 Siberian 0.33
    8 Northeast_African 0.16



    K15

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 25.83
    2 East_Med 18.93
    3 West_Med 16.08
    4 North_Sea 11.37
    5 West_Asian 10.27
    6 Baltic 8.78
    7 Red_Sea 4.78
    8 Eastern_Euro 3.92
    9 Northeast_African 0.04



    (As you can see my oracle K15 in Mixed mode becomes an approximate mathematical average among even quite distant populations)

    Two different calculators give different values for the same genetic category, although based on the same data.
    You would expect that West Asian, Red Sea, North east Afric an, siberian to be identical in both calcualtors.
    Also, you would expect that Baltic in K13 to corresponds perfectly to Baltic + East Eruopean in K15(it's similar but not identical)
    Same with North Atlantic of K13, you would expect to be the sum of Atlantic and North Sea. Which it isnt. Not even close.
    It seems that Atlantic, North Sea and West MEd are genetic contiuums. Or part of the sequences are shared.
    Contiuums seems to be East MEd with Red Sea, and both with West asian. Or share some Sequences.
    It seems many for these categories, although should have been identical(and they are similar), two different people drew two different margins in how each is recognized.
    The general perceptions that this categories reflect an orderly phylogenetic tree similar to the Y-DNA trees doesnt quite reflect reality, R1a isnt quite the equavalent of Baltic, North Atlantic isnt quite the equavalent of R1b, there is probably a lot of ''east european'' blood in the K13's 'west asian' and 'south asian' categories and so on and so forth.

  6. #281
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    my grandmother, southern Italian from Campania












  7. #282
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Duarte, all of a sudden when I add your new Collegno and Szolad sample it says column number mismatch or variable column number in source. Am I doing something wrong?


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  8. #283
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    my dodecad k12b updated spreadsheet results

    Distance to: torziok12b
    7.31461551 N_Italian
    10.24966341 O_Italian
    10.73141650 North_Italian
    12.22643039 TSI30
    13.80326773 Tuscan
    16.01512098 C_Italian
    16.27628950 Romanians
    16.46947479 Baleares
    17.05822969 Galicia
    17.07617053 Bulgarian
    17.12228373 Bulgarians
    17.86829035 Extremadura
    17.92111604 French
    18.08995578 French
    18.38292414 Portuguese
    20.19489044 Murcia
    20.45467184 Castilla_Y_Leon
    20.48964617 Cataluna
    20.55820031 Greek
    20.81762715 Spaniards
    21.12570946 Canarias
    21.59592091 Andalucia
    21.78016988 Spanish
    22.99629535 Mixed_Germanic
    23.18748801 Hungarians


    51.2 N_Italian 24.2 O_Italian 19.6 German 1.8 Romanians 1.8 Tajiks


    same as before
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-Y33791
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  9. #284
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    K13 ancient

    Distance to: Torzio
    3.14279107 IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1
    7.21271793 CL36_collegno_italy_longobard
    7.47605511 SZ36.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    7.54191620 SZ28_szolad_hungary_longobard
    7.62072831 RISE254_Szazhalombatta_Foldvar_Hungary_3631_years_ GHIJK_Z12203_J1c9
    7.71743481 CL49_collegno_italy_longobard
    7.83749960 DA195_Hungary_Scythian
    8.02793871 SZ43.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    8.32675207 DA199_Late_Medieval_Hungary
    8.40845408 SZ45.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    8.55622580 SZ37_szolad_hungary_longobard
    8.69714321 SZ32_szolad_hungary_longobard
    8.70789871 CL23_collegno_italy_longobard
    9.38891900 SZ27_szolad_hungary_longobard
    9.47101367 SZ1.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    9.66252038 IA_Civitavecchia_R474
    9.66802979 SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_6-th_century
    10.28309292 I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _2
    10.32287751 scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce
    10.45008134 CL94_collegno_italy_longobard
    10.54462896 CL57_collegno_italy_longobard
    10.83154190 ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC
    11.10855526 SZ18_szolad_hungary_longobard
    11.34702604 CL47_collegno_italy_longobard
    11.45461916 I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1



    Distance to: trentinoCles
    4.99492743 SZ43.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    6.58473993 IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1
    6.88456970 SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_6-th_century
    7.26103298 ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC
    7.46621725 IA_Civitavecchia_R474
    7.58897226 SZ36.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    7.81855485 RISE254_Szazhalombatta_Foldvar_Hungary_3631_years_ GHIJK_Z12203_J1c9
    8.14178727 I7424_morisco
    8.14660666 CL36_collegno_italy_longobard
    8.25780843 I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1
    8.84250530 SZ37_szolad_hungary_longobard
    8.90200539 I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _2
    9.50753385 CL23_collegno_italy_longobard
    9.52839966 I7424_morisco2
    9.57641895 I12647_iberia
    9.73838282 CL49_collegno_italy_longobard
    9.77061411 I12647_iberia2
    9.95622418 SZ28_szolad_hungary_longobard
    10.27542700 SZ32_szolad_hungary_longobard
    10.51157933 scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce
    10.66541138 I12516_iberia
    10.93564813 SZ1.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    10.94344096 IA_Civitavecchia_R473
    11.32243348 CrusaderSI41KingdomofJerusalem
    11.95757919 SZ27_szolad_hungary_longobard

  10. #285
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    OK, my K12b without Szolad and Collego since they aren't working for some reason.
    3.35070082 France_Corsica
    5.88253772 Italy_Tuscany
    6.05046701 Italy_Emilia
    6.46549999 Italy_Liguria
    7.41275253 Italy_Romagna
    7.49533572 Italy_Lombardy
    9.01179227 MA_Cancelleria_R1283
    9.10498215 IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016
    9.37771817 Italy_Marche
    9.40447500 Italy_Piedmont
    9.40529638 LA_Celio_R36
    9.61917356 IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015
    9.80181106 IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1
    9.81684050 Italy_Veneto
    10.29759195 LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118
    10.41448482 Italy_Lazio
    10.76144972 IA_Civitavecchia_R474
    10.89582948 IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021
    10.91793937 IA_Civitavecchia_R473
    11.46905892 Swiss_Italian
    12.79029632 Italy_Trentino
    12.93960726 Italy_FriuliVG
    12.94033230 MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969
    13.18377791 IA_Latin_Ardea_R851
    13.23101281 MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970

    I'd really like to know if those Corsican samples came from people of mixed Corsican/French ancestry.

  11. #286
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a link to the part of the Grugni paper where they listed their samples by area? My memory of it is that they used samples only from certain specific areas, and some of them were counterintuitive, as well: Viterbo being their "Central Italian" sample, for example.

  12. #287
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Perhaps these "new" Italian samples are actually the ones from the Raveane et al paper. There's no comparison between those samples and the ones traditionally used, which is probably why I get such a different result to "Northern Italian" depending on whether they're using Bergamo or a rather eclectic collection of "Northern Italians".

    I don't know whether it's such a good idea to include them but keep the old ones at the same time.

    As for the Corsican sample, I think it comes from this paper on Corsica, which chose its Corsican samples (for geographical coverage) from the DiCristoforo paper, and nowhere did they say that they checked or even asked whether all four grandparents were from Corsica.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-49901-8

    With a lot of papers coming from young, NOT seasoned researchers, we're going to have a mess on our hands.

  13. #288
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Does anyone have a link to the part of the Grugni paper where they listed their samples by area? My memory of it is that they used samples only from certain specific areas, and some of them were counterintuitive, as well: Viterbo being their "Central Italian" sample, for example.

    There was no North-east of Italy in the Grugni samples..............other north italian area where present

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...erspective#pf2

  14. #289
    Regular Member TardisBlue's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    These are the K12b results of one of my matches. Mother was from Capri, and father was allegedly from Sicily:




  15. #290
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TardisBlue View Post
    These are the K12b results of one of my matches. Mother was from Capri, and father was allegedly from Sicily:



    I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.

    Once again, we see the problem we always had with using modern samples, i.e. there were no Ashkenazi Jews in Italy until they fled Germany, and some from the end of the 19th century, and even then they were a handful, and mostly in the north, so they can have had nothing to do with the ethnogenesis of southern Italians.

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.
    The Pontian Greeks cluster close to Hamshen Armenians and Georgian Laz (and of course the Trabzon_Turks with no C.Asian admix) not with the rest of the Turkish population. Overlapping Greeks and Turks can be from areas like Asian Minor, Istanbul, and Cappadocia.

    PCA and distances using G25 population averages:




  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.

    Once again, we see the problem we always had with using modern samples, i.e. there were no Ashkenazi Jews in Italy until they fled Germany, and some from the end of the 19th century, and even then they were a handful, and mostly in the north, so they can have had nothing to do with the ethnogenesis of southern Italians.
    This is her K15 ancient:




    And her K13 ancient:




  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I wonder if the "Turk" samples are from Pontic Greek areas.

    Once again, we see the problem we always had with using modern samples, i.e. there were no Ashkenazi Jews in Italy until they fled Germany, and some from the end of the 19th century, and even then they were a handful, and mostly in the north, so they can have had nothing to do with the ethnogenesis of southern Italians.
    Pontic Greeks usually end up more like the Armenians than the Turks.

    I don't find G25 completely accurate, but that's the current situation.

    Where there are so many populations the labels don't match perfectly own their clusters.



  19. #294
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    @mlukas
    Iberian Samples to help developing the Vahaduo Dodecad K12b Ancient:

    LBA_ElSotillo_Alava_I2469,9.22,0.00,1.86,0.32,52.6 1,20.57,1.16,0.00,0.87,0.00,13.40,0.00
    BronzeAgeNorthernSpain_I2472,1.14,0.00,3.50,1.18,5 6.65,26.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,11.52,0.00
    CeltiberianMixTribeNorthernSpain_I3238,2.44,0.00,3 .07,0.00,44.99,36.67,0.52,0.00,0.17,0.60,10.96,0.5 9
    Pre-RomanGirona_I3324,5.56,1.29,0.00,0.00,52.03,29.28, 0.00,0.00,3.67,0.32,7.07,0.77
    LateRomanIberiaGranada_I3576,3.39,1.20,10.98,0.00, 37.27,15.84,0.00,1.46,9.98,0.03,17.96,1.88
    LateRomanIberiaGranada_I3581,2.25,0.00,9.46,0.99,3 6.90,18.80,0.00,0.42,12.18,0.62,16.63,1.75
    EarlyMedievalAndalusia_I3585,4.00,0.76,7.98,0.00,4 0.89,21.30,1.15,2.10,7.58,0.29,13.67,0.26
    EarlyMedievalIberiaGranada_I3981,5.23,0.02,8.00,0. 74,43.54,17.45,0.00,1.85,6.11,0.00,15.69,1.37
    RomanVillaGranadaSpain_I4055,6.34,0.29,11.67,0.00, 35.87,20.88,0.00,3.68,15.38,0.36,5.46,0.06
    MoriscoConvertAndalusia_I7425,4.46,0.00,11.07,1.63 ,34.23,17.00,0.00,2.36,7.37,0.00,17.40,4.48
    CarthagoMaghrebiAndalusia_I7457,3.88,0.00,10.09,0. 00,37.97,18.30,0.00,2.07,8.05,0.00,16.16,3.50
    HispanoRomanMaghrebiCordobaCaliphate_I7497,1.70,0. 00,4.03,0.00,42.32,12.32,0.00,0.32,14.03,3.23,18.1 8,3.87
    IberianCordobaCaliphate_I7498,1.57,1.18,7.25,0.00, 37.31,21.69,2.00,0.79,8.98,0.46,17.01,1.75
    VasconicTribe_I8209,6.77,0.00,1.74,0.00,48.23,30.3 2,0.21,0.60,0.79,0.17,11.18,0.00
    RomanEraGirona_I8339,2.27,0.00,0.00,0.22,49.12,31. 98,3.72,0.00,5.88,0.79,5.59,0.44
    RomanCarthagoMixIberia_I8475,4.30,0.33,5.35,0.00,3 9.62,19.72,1.18,0.14,7.35,0.00,22.00,0.00
    GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10851,7.04,0.00,0.00,0.00, 39.28,30.10,1.85,2.44,5.97,0.00,13.33,0.00
    GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10852,7.32,0.00,3.77,0.00, 43.67,27.11,1.41,0.37,5.94,0.00,9.37,1.03
    GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10853,3.61,0.00,6.44,0.00, 38.24,26.00,1.37,0.00,6.47,0.00,17.25,0.63
    GalloRomanCeltMixIberia_I10866,4.02,0.48,8.95,0.00 ,39.73,28.49,0.11,2.53,6.47,0.00,6.62,2.62
    GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10892,5.59,0.26,3.58,0.41, 44.49,24.42,0.33,1.20,5.21,0.00,14.35,0.16
    GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10895,3.18,0.37,5.23,0.41, 43.22,25.89,0.00,0.60,6.19,0.00,14.57,0.33
    VisigothFrankishGirona_I12032,7.89,1.02,2.62,0.00, 37.25,38.02,0.00,0.20,0.00,0.00,12.74,0.26
    VisigothIberianGirona_I12034,4.09,0.00,0.00,1.22,4 9.32,29.61,0.69,0.00,1.50,0.86,12.33,0.38
    BronzeAgeSpainCogotas_I12208,1.39,0.00,5.31,0.43,5 4.53,22.97,1.16,0.00,3.96,0.94,8.35,0.95
    BronzeAgeSpainCogotas_I12209,0.00,0.00,4.43,1.66,5 5.40,27.36,0.00,0.00,3.50,0.00,7.08,0.56
    IlergetesOutlierCatalan_I12410,0.26,0.00,3.37,0.76 ,57.15,25.49,0.00,0.16,0.53,0.81,10.56,0.91
    PortugueseCordobaCaliphate_I12514,2.62,1.23,7.21,0 .04,39.51,25.34,0.00,0.00,7.84,1.09,13.31,1.81
    SpaniardCordobaCaliphate_I12515,4.18,0.00,8.23,0.1 8,37.93,21.03,0.00,0.00,9.03,1.04,17.24,1.15
    PortugueseCordobaCaliphate_I12516,3.00,0.59,4.20,0 .41,43.15,22.89,0.00,2.18,4.70,0.00,18.05,0.81
    TartessianArchaicAndalusia_I12561,2.75,0.00,0.00,0 .00,64.04,17.25,6.88,0.00,5.47,0.00,3.61,0.00
    IronAgeCatalan_I12640,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,52.97,24 .35,0.00,0.00,5.65,0.00,15.41,1.61
    HispanoRomanTaifaofValencia_I12644,2.34,1.37,10.60 ,0.00,36.12,19.10,0.00,1.78,10.72,0.00,16.68,1.29
    HispanoRomanTaifaofValencia_I12647,2.44,0.70,9.01, 0.00,36.94,20.28,0.00,1.89,8.27,0.00,18.90,1.58
    MedievalTaifaofValencia_I12649,9.43,0.96,4.90,0.00 ,43.04,19.67,0.00,0.81,7.33,0.00,13.86,0.00
    IlergetesTribeCatalan_I12878,0.45,0.28,5.90,0.00,5 7.80,28.10,0.55,0.00,1.02,0.00,5.91,0.00
    BronzeAgeNorthernSpain_VAD001,3.95,0.00,0.00,0.00, 56.95,26.02,1.54,0.00,3.09,0.00,7.87,0.59
    BAIberiaValdescusaLaRioja_VAD002,0.00,1.91,0.00,0. 91,61.64,25.41,0.00,0.00,3.70,0.87,5.56,0.00
    Roman_Soldier_FN_2,1.16,0.00,2.13,0.14,47.26,32.04 ,0.00,0.00,2.96,0.00,13.75,0.57


    Sources:
    1)BAM files Iberians:
    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB30874

    2)Roman_Soldier_FN_2:
    GEDmatch Kit Number: Z061309

    3)BAM files Italians:
    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB32566
    Last edited by Duarte; 05-01-20 at 03:33. Reason: Added correct link to Bam files Italians

  20. #295
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
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    Belo Horizonte
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    1,872

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    My results "Vahaduo Dodecad K12b updated spreadsheet" with following sources: Vahaduo default + post #185(Jovialis) + post #205(Duarte) + post #249(Duarte) + post #296(Duarte):



  21. #296
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    4,783

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Here is the samples I've done thus far, with the previous others included:

    MA_Villa_Magna_R57,6.89,0,2.97,0.58,27.50,15.59,0, 0,0.58,0,34.62,0
    MA_Villa_Magna_R58,5.26,0,1.27,0,28.14,15.43,0,0,1 2.83,0,35.80,0.05
    MA_Villa_Magna_R59,4.24,0,2.25,0.19,28.74,15.80,0. 31,0,12.53,0.66,34.39,0.88
    MA_Villa_Magna_R60,6.75,0.68,3.35,0,27.36,18.94,0, 1.54,11.04,0,30.34,0
    MA_Villa_Magna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0, 0,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
    MA_Villa_Magna_R1290,6.30,0,1.09,0.34,30.16,15.96, 0.27,0,12.04,0.09,32.81,0.93
    MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970,9.25,0,5.12,0.53,29. 32,18.41,0,0,7.11,0,30.25,0.01
    MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973,8.17,0.16,2.94,0,28. 76,15.28,0,0,10.56,0.15,33.57,0.40
    MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969,6.45,0.25,0.99,0,30. 40,17.81,0.65,1.10,11.67,0,30.67,0
    MA_Cancelleria_R1283,4.58,0,1.73,0,34.27,18.15,0,0 .08,11.02,0,29.41,0.75
    LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121,7.68,0,2.81,0, 29.21,18.18,0,0.90,11.76,0,29.47,0
    LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118,7.28,0.85,1.85 ,0,34.72,14.81,0,0,11.95,0,28.29,0.24
    LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R30,7.67,0,4.49,0.47,27.43,8 .56,0.25,1.38,11.74,0.86,37.00,0.24
    LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R32,5.90,0,7.07,0.12,29.06,1 2.90,1.05,1.03,7.57,0,35.31,0
    LA_Crypta_Balbi_R107,3.12,0,2.59,0,30.01,16.90,1.7 2,0,13.16,0,32.50,0
    LA_Crypta_Balbi_R110,4.57,1.19,2.38,0.76,41.91,24. 74,0.07,0,4.24,0,18.96,0.17
    LA_Celio_R36,7.23,0,3.17,0,32.85,20.10,0,0.35,9.77 ,0,26.50,0.02
    LA_Celio_R35,5.62,0,4.55,0.11,28.56,13.42,1.72,0.5 9,12.58,0,32.74,0.11
    Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49 ,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
    Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,1 0.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
    Imperial_Monterotondo_R1551,14.46,0,0.14,0,10.32,4 .49,0,0.80,14.76,0,54.71,0.33
    Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.9 5,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0
    Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R132,1.95,0,17.82,1.6 8,24.91,4.20,0,6.73,16.66,0.14,24.20,1.71
    Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R134,8.38,0,5.00,0.32 ,22.37,7.35,0,1.16,15.45,0,39.61,0
    Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R136,8.83,0.08,3.88,0 ,26.08,13.09,0.38,0,12.75,0,34.91,0
    Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1543,8.61,0,6 .43,0,21.01,9.18,0.27,0.24,15.01,0.04,39.07,0.15
    Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1545,7.66,0,1 .16,0.13,25.08,8.12,1.02,0.68,15.23,0,40.91,0.01
    Imperial_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_R131,7.30,0.24,0 .94,0.57,31.63,13.18,0.27,0,11.79,0,33.23,0.84
    Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R37,2.14,1.00,2.70 ,0,50.70,31.46,0,0,4.24,0,7.65,0.12
    Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R38,11.97,0.24,2.9 4,0,17.99,1.99,0.16,0.30,18.03,0,46.26,0.13
    IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0 ,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
    IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0. 14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
    IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435,4.84,0.64,0.65 ,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
    IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33 .19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
    IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37 ,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
    IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74 ,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
    IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79 ,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34
    IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47 .15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
    IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33, 0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
    IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.2 3,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
    IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24. 04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
    N_Grotta_Continenza_R2,0,0,3.98,0,54.75,0,0,0,11.9 0,0,29.37,0
    N_Grotta_Continenza_R8,0,0,2.83,0,53.23,0,0,0,13.8 2,0.25,29.87,0
    N_Grotta_Continenza_R9,0,0,3.27,0,50.85,0,0,0,13.2 5,0,32.63,0

  22. #297
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,610

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here is the samples I've done thus far, with the previous others included:

    MA_Villa_Magna_R57,6.89,0,2.97,0.58,27.50,15.59,0, 0,0.58,0,34.62,0
    MA_Villa_Magna_R58,5.26,0,1.27,0,28.14,15.43,0,0,1 2.83,0,35.80,0.05
    MA_Villa_Magna_R59,4.24,0,2.25,0.19,28.74,15.80,0. 31,0,12.53,0.66,34.39,0.88
    MA_Villa_Magna_R60,6.75,0.68,3.35,0,27.36,18.94,0, 1.54,11.04,0,30.34,0
    MA_Villa_Magna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0, 0,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
    MA_Villa_Magna_R1290,6.30,0,1.09,0.34,30.16,15.96, 0.27,0,12.04,0.09,32.81,0.93
    MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970,9.25,0,5.12,0.53,29. 32,18.41,0,0,7.11,0,30.25,0.01
    MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R973,8.17,0.16,2.94,0,28. 76,15.28,0,0,10.56,0.15,33.57,0.40
    MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969,6.45,0.25,0.99,0,30. 40,17.81,0.65,1.10,11.67,0,30.67,0
    MA_Cancelleria_R1283,4.58,0,1.73,0,34.27,18.15,0,0 .08,11.02,0,29.41,0.75
    LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121,7.68,0,2.81,0, 29.21,18.18,0,0.90,11.76,0,29.47,0
    LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118,7.28,0.85,1.85 ,0,34.72,14.81,0,0,11.95,0,28.29,0.24
    LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R30,7.67,0,4.49,0.47,27.43,8 .56,0.25,1.38,11.74,0.86,37.00,0.24
    LA_Mausole_di_Augusto_R32,5.90,0,7.07,0.12,29.06,1 2.90,1.05,1.03,7.57,0,35.31,0
    LA_Crypta_Balbi_R107,3.12,0,2.59,0,30.01,16.90,1.7 2,0,13.16,0,32.50,0
    LA_Crypta_Balbi_R110,4.57,1.19,2.38,0.76,41.91,24. 74,0.07,0,4.24,0,18.96,0.17
    LA_Celio_R36,7.23,0,3.17,0,32.85,20.10,0,0.35,9.77 ,0,26.50,0.02
    LA_Celio_R35,5.62,0,4.55,0.11,28.56,13.42,1.72,0.5 9,12.58,0,32.74,0.11
    Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49 ,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
    Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,1 0.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
    Imperial_Monterotondo_R1551,14.46,0,0.14,0,10.32,4 .49,0,0.80,14.76,0,54.71,0.33
    Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.9 5,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0
    Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R132,1.95,0,17.82,1.6 8,24.91,4.20,0,6.73,16.66,0.14,24.20,1.71
    Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R134,8.38,0,5.00,0.32 ,22.37,7.35,0,1.16,15.45,0,39.61,0
    Imperial_Marcellino_&_Pietro_R136,8.83,0.08,3.88,0 ,26.08,13.09,0.38,0,12.75,0,34.91,0
    Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1543,8.61,0,6 .43,0,21.01,9.18,0.27,0.24,15.01,0.04,39.07,0.15
    Imperial_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese_R1545,7.66,0,1 .16,0.13,25.08,8.12,1.02,0.68,15.23,0,40.91,0.01
    Imperial_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_R131,7.30,0.24,0 .94,0.57,31.63,13.18,0.27,0,11.79,0,33.23,0.84
    Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R37,2.14,1.00,2.70 ,0,50.70,31.46,0,0,4.24,0,7.65,0.12
    Imperial_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis_R38,11.97,0.24,2.9 4,0,17.99,1.99,0.16,0.30,18.03,0,46.26,0.13
    IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0 ,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
    IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0. 14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
    IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435,4.84,0.64,0.65 ,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
    IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_R437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33 .19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
    IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37 ,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
    IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74 ,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
    IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79 ,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34
    IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47 .15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
    IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33, 0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
    IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.2 3,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
    IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24. 04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
    N_Grotta_Continenza_R2,0,0,3.98,0,54.75,0,0,0,11.9 0,0,29.37,0
    N_Grotta_Continenza_R8,0,0,2.83,0,53.23,0,0,0,13.8 2,0.25,29.87,0
    N_Grotta_Continenza_R9,0,0,3.27,0,50.85,0,0,0,13.2 5,0,32.63,0
    my results with your data above

    Distance to: torziok12b
    4.65249395 IA_Civitavecchia_R474
    4.86300319 IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1
    7.31461551 N_Italian
    8.04563857 LA_Crypta_Balbi_R110
    10.24966341 O_Italian
    10.73141650 North_Italian
    10.85074652 LA_Celio_R36
    12.22643039 TSI30
    13.78514055 Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549
    13.80326773 Tuscan
    14.00105710 IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_R435
    14.07171987 IA_Civitavecchia_R473
    14.17553174 MA_Cancelleria_R1283
    14.20135205 IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015
    14.41937585 IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021
    14.47632550 IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016
    15.47923771 MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R970
    15.48482160 IA_Latin_Ardea_R851
    15.69879932 LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R121
    16.01512098 C_Italian
    16.10745480 MA_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti_R969
    16.22593911 LA_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_R118
    16.27628950 Romanians
    16.46947479 Baleares
    16.47231010 MA_Villa_Magna_R60



    53.4 IA_Civitavecchia_R474 46.6 IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1

  23. #298
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,610

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by brick View Post
    Pontic Greeks usually end up more like the Armenians than the Turks.

    I don't find G25 completely accurate, but that's the current situation.

    Where there are so many populations the labels don't match perfectly own their clusters.


    Also Armenians sit with Kurds
    Kurds history states.....they came from ancient Medes
    Medes came for south of the Aral Sea and east of the caspian sea


    And not with Persians, who originate circa 1100BC in Uzbekistan then migrated to modern Iran

    This is the consensus

  24. #299
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    18,994


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    The Pontian Greeks cluster close to Hamshen Armenians and Georgian Laz (and of course the Trabzon_Turks with no C.Asian admix) not with the rest of the Turkish population. Overlapping Greeks and Turks can be from areas like Asian Minor, Istanbul, and Cappadocia.

    PCA and distances using G25 population averages:



    Well, the western Black Sea coast could be the heavily Balkan admixed "Turks" of the far northwest, and central might make sense as well, but there's no way Southern Italians could be that related to Crimean Tatars with their heavy Turkic input.

    Something weird is going on all of a sudden with these calculators since the Grugni/Raveane samples were added. Who prepared them for upload to calculators?

  25. #300
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    30-04-18
    Posts
    182


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, the western Black Sea coast could be the heavily Balkan admixed "Turks" of the far northwest, and central might make sense as well, but there's no way Southern Italians could be that related to Crimean Tatars with their heavy Turkic input.

    Something weird is going on all of a sudden with these calculators since the Grugni/Raveane samples were added. Who prepared them for upload to calculators?
    Only a small part of the samples from Raveane 2019 have been uploaded into the G25, because not all Raveane 2019 samples have been released.

    Of course these samples are chosen, prepared and uploaded by the creator of the G25, who is the only person who can do it. Therefore the accuracy of the averages and the results of the individual samples, both modern and ancient, depend exclusively on Davidski.

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