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@Angela:

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There is no evidence that I3313, a Bronze Age sample dated 1500-900 BCE, is Illyrian, that is an Iron age ethnos.


All these samples, I4331, I4332, I3499, should be renamed as what they are: Bronze Age Croatia.
 
ASH068 is also my closest IA ‘ASH’ sample:

7sJSlqq.jpg
 
There is no evidence that I3313, a Bronze Age sample dated 1500-900 BCE, is Illyrian, that is an Iron age ethnos.


All these samples, I4331, I4332, I3499, should be renamed as what they are: Bronze Age Croatia.

Thank you Pax. The names were borrowed from the MTA. This way, It is easier to compare Dodecad K12b Ancient results with those from MTA. In another opportunity these ancient samples may be better labeled. Unfortunately I do not have the time to do this work.


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Thank you Pax. The names were borrowed from the MTA. This way, It is easier to compare Dodecad K12b Ancient results with those from MTA. In another opportunity these ancient samples may be better labeled. Unfortunately I do not have the time to do this work.


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I figured it wasn't your fault. MTA is literally inventing labels.
 
my results from added data on post # 404 ......................no error issues


Distance to:Torziok12b
1.89726118R55___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
2.57738938Italy_FriuliVG
2.91721398Italy_Veneto
3.15360272Italy_Piedmont
4.32371831Italy_Trentino
4.63928874R105__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
4.65249395R474__Iron_Age_____Civitavecchia
4.86300319R1____Iron_Age_____Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
5.21059138Swiss_Italian
5.21492090R33___Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
5.62034319Italy_Lombardy
6.33094275Italy_Liguria
6.64383556Italy_Emilia
6.96106620Italy_Aosta_Valley
7.28685117R1221_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
7.88022842R61___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
8.00853232Italy_Tuscany
8.04563857R110__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
8.49518687R108__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
8.88398559R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
8.89470067R109__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
9.92698343Italy_Romagna
10.18906767Albanian_North
10.39892783R1220_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.43786377Albanian_Kosovo


45.0R55___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna22.6Italy_Veneto16.0Italy_FriuliVG9.0R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria4.6R105__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi1.2Avar_Dagestan1.0R106__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi0.4Pathan

.......................................................................................................


Distance to:TrentinoCles
2.53333772R33___Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
3.75795157R1____Iron_Age_____Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
4.14305918Italy_Veneto
4.66815569Italy_Lombardy
4.82467099Italy_Liguria
5.11384405Italy_Emilia
5.48084210Italy_Piedmont
5.74693571Italy_Tuscany
6.11802256R55___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.15176853Italy_FriuliVG
6.62085059Swiss_Italian
7.19608922Italy_Trentino
7.22083098Italy_Romagna
8.36066385Albanian_North
8.58509755R474__Iron_Age_____Civitavecchia
8.65458260Albanian_Kosovo
9.10143395R110__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
9.46118914R36___Late_Antiquity_Celio
9.51338005R105__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
9.52751048France_Corsica
9.83237509R61___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
9.98795274R111__Imperial_Era__Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
10.08367493R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.20557691R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.31492336Italy_Lazio
 
using only data from post #404

Distance to:TrentinoCles
2.53333772R33___Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
3.75795157R1____Iron_Age_____Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
6.11802256R55___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
8.58509755R474__Iron_Age_____Civitavecchia
9.10143395R110__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
9.46118914R36___Late_Antiquity_Celio
9.51338005R105__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
9.83237509R61___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
9.98795274R111__Imperial_Era__Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
10.08367493R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.20557691R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.49232577R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.61070214R120__Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
11.89476776I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
12.20367568R109__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
12.34320461R473__Iron_Age_____Civitavecchia
12.39171497R1015_Iron_Age_____Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
12.61407944R1021_Iron_Age_____Boville_Ernica
13.18071318R1016_Iron_Age_____Castel_di_Decima
13.18973085R1221_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
13.37933855R969__Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
13.43228201R108__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
13.83968569R118__Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
13.91132273R121__Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
14.05549003R970__Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti


Distance to:Torziok12b
1.89726118R55___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
4.63928874R105__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
4.65249395R474__Iron_Age_____Civitavecchia
4.86300319R1____Iron_Age_____Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
5.21492090R33___Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
7.28685117R1221_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
7.88022842R61___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
8.04563857R110__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
8.49518687R108__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
8.88398559R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
8.89470067R109__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
10.39892783R1220_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.85074652R36___Late_Antiquity_Celio
13.01181771R111__Imperial_Era__Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
13.55029151R63___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
13.60258064R120__Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
13.78514055R1549_Imperial_Era__Monterotondo
14.00105710R435__Iron_Age_____Palestrina_Colombella
14.03935540I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
14.07171987R473__Iron_Age_____Civitavecchia
14.17418075R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
14.17553174R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
14.20135205R1015_Iron_Age_____Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
14.28941216R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
14.41937585R1021_Iron_Age_____Boville_Ernica


87.0R55___Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
5.8R1____Iron_Age_____Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
4.0R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
3.2R106__Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi

Target: Torziok12b
Distance: 1.3271% / 1.32714599 | ADC: 0.5x
 
There is no evidence that I3313, a Bronze Age sample dated 1500-900 BCE, is Illyrian, that is an Iron age ethnos.


All these samples, I4331, I4332, I3499, should be renamed as what they are: Bronze Age Croatia.

The earliest mention of Illyrian was 1600BC in Noricum ....................I agree it might not be Illyrian .....................but Noricum ( east Austria ) to Dalmatia is not much of a journey


BTW.....there is no evidence that ancient samples found in Italy, Germany Spain etc etc.....are Italian, German or Spanish either ...................so I do not see your point in this type of classification


Jazinka Cave (1 individual)Jazinka Cave is located within the boundaries of the Krka National Park, on the left bank of the Krka River in Šibenik-Knin County in southern Croatia. The cave is situated at the top of the canyon at a height of 216 m above sea level. Members of the local caving club first drew the attention to the cavein 2006 when they recorded it in detail. It is in theform of a horizontal tunnel with the total length of about 42 m. The cave was excavated in 2008 and 2009 by archaeologists from the museums in Drniš and Šibenik. The frontpart of the cave was used as a dwelling area (temporary or permanent) where numerous fragments of pottery and animal bones were found. Conversely, the rear part of the cave was used as a burial place where numerous fragments of scattered human bones were discovered in a thick layer of mud. Beside the human remains, numerous Bronze Age pottery fragments as well as several objects made of bronze such as one fibula, a spear tip, and one bronze button were also recovered. Based on the archaeological material the cemetery can be dated to the Late Bronze and/or to the beginning of the Early Iron Age.22We report genetic data from one individual:I3313/ JAZ1


I3313
mtDNA: HV0e

The confusing part of the paper and mapping of this sample is that it was found in Slovenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krka_Cave

The maps on the position of this sample confuses it with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krka_National_Park and island off Dalmatia

 
The earliest mention of Illyrian was 1600BC in Noricum ....................I agree it might not be Illyrian .....................but Noricum ( east Austria ) to Dalmatia is not much of a journey

Torzio, what does the earliest mention of Illyrian mean? What kind of mention of Illyrian in 1600 BC in Noricum?


The confusing part of the paper and mapping of this sample is that it was found in Slovenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krka_Cave


I think this is a different place, not the one where the I3313 sample was found. It may happen that places with the same name exist in Slovenia and Croatia.
 
Torzio, what does the earliest mention of Illyrian mean? What kind of mention of Illyrian in 1600 BC in Noricum?





I think this is a different place, not the one where the I3313 sample was found. It may happen that places with the same name exist in Slovenia and Croatia.

maybe i will check
 
All of the Rome, Greece, and Philistines

... on a 60 samples run, the first non R is the last one -
a Mycenaean:

1hseZJK.jpg
 
All of the Rome, Greece, and Philistines

... on a 60 samples run, the first non R is the last one -
a Mycenaean:

1hseZJK.jpg

Is this K12b, Salento?

This is what showed up for K12b before for that sample.

Distance to:
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese
8.64348888
Sicilian
8.97400691
S_Italian_Sicilian
10.67560303
C_Italian
13.06422596
Tuscan
13.15328096
Ashkenazi
 
Is this K12b, Salento?

This is what showed up for K12b before for that sample.

Distance to:I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese
8.64348888Sicilian
8.97400691S_Italian_Sicilian
10.67560303C_Italian
13.06422596Tuscan
13.15328096Ashkenazi

yes, Dodecad k12b
Thanks :)

Even in my case (a Pugliese) there’s a noticeable distance between the Mycenaean (Ancient Greek?) and the Romans.

I thought I would have been a bit closer to the Mycenaean.
 
yes, Dodecad k12b :)

Even in my case (a Pugliese) there’s a noticeable distance between the Mycenaean (Ancient Greek?) and the Romans.

I thought I would have been a bit closer to the Mycenaean.

My husband is closer. As you know, everything in Italy is regional.

Let me see if I can find his result.
 
My husband is closer. As you know, everything in Italy is regional.

Let me see if I can find his result.

No, not that much closer in K12b.

Yours: 19041/13.99

His:
13.21405691I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese


It was mta I was thinking of...

26. Mycenaean (1350 BC) ..... 12.09 - I9041 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
[FONT=&quot]​
99
% match vs all users[/FONT]
 
I've uploaded them to GEDmatch.

GEDmatch Genesis kit numbers of crusaders belonging to European and Admixed groups:

Crusader SI39 - kit number EM9001776
Crusader SI40 - kit number QR8698402
Crusader SI47 - kit number XA2645587
Crusader SI41 - kit number ME3828251
Crusader SI53 - kit number ZX8440629

vFKaO0l.png

CRUZADERS

CrusaderKnightCelto-GermanicLebanonCrusaderSI39,6.95,1.03,0.00,0.00,34.51,40.91,2.01,0.00,0.00,0.18,12.88,1.53
CrusaderKnightFrenchLebanonCrusaderSI40,4.28,0.74,3.35,0.00,47.07,26.39,0.00,0.37,5.96,0.18,10.79,0.86
CrusaderKnightCelto-GermanicLebanonCrusaderSI47,9.87,0.00,0.60,0.00,35.64,40.84,0.00,1.53,1.29,1.56,7.96,0.71
CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI41,3.20,0.00,8.67,0.00,37.38,17.90,0.25,2.24,8.44,0.10,18.87,2.93
CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI53,8.18,0.59,1.46,0.00,27.16,18.68,0.36,0.31,9.76,0.00,32.79,0.70

LINK: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LbElEfSQD0MDyI2N-k1GdG3yGwx_W_lP/view?usp=sharing

Mine:
BOZUAmt.png
 
CRUZADERS

CrusaderKnightCelto-GermanicLebanonCrusaderSI39,6.95,1.03,0.00,0.00,34.51,40.91,2.01,0.00,0.00,0.18,12.88,1.53
CrusaderKnightFrenchLebanonCrusaderSI40,4.28,0.74,3.35,0.00,47.07,26.39,0.00,0.37,5.96,0.18,10.79,0.86
CrusaderKnightCelto-GermanicLebanonCrusaderSI47,9.87,0.00,0.60,0.00,35.64,40.84,0.00,1.53,1.29,1.56,7.96,0.71
CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI41,3.20,0.00,8.67,0.00,37.38,17.90,0.25,2.24,8.44,0.10,18.87,2.93
CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI53,8.18,0.59,1.46,0.00,27.16,18.68,0.36,0.31,9.76,0.00,32.79,0.70

LINK: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LbElEfSQD0MDyI2N-k1GdG3yGwx_W_lP/view?usp=sharing

Mine:
BOZUAmt.png

I wonder what part of Puglia one of the Tuscan Crusader Knight comes from ... :) LOL

INSfFFs.jpg


Distance to:Salento_me
3.13945983Italy_Apulia
4.78208110Italy_Abruzzo

Distance to:CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI53
3.00662402Italy_Apulia
4.05160952Italy_Abruzzo
 
I wonder what part of Puglia one of the Tuscan Crusader Knight comes from ... :) LOL

INSfFFs.jpg


Distance to:Salento_me
3.13945983Italy_Apulia
4.78208110Italy_Abruzzo

Distance to:CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI53
3.00662402Italy_Apulia
4.05160952Italy_Abruzzo

Hi Salento. Very cool.
I only stay in 5 if I mix the crusaders. Son of three parents, LOL :)

LUEY7iB.png
 
K13 from an italian site




Eurogenes K13 è probabilmente il calcolatore amatoriale presente su Gedmatch più indicato per gli individui di lignaggio europeo, anche se ha i suoi anni (sei, se non vado errato). Oggi, dal suo stesso autore, David Wesolowski (Davidski), abbiamo il Global25, che però è a pagamento. Reputo il K13 piuttosto affidabile e dunque ho creato, basandomi su di esso, grazie ad un programma specifico, alcune mappe che mettono in luce la realtà genetica italiana, anche inserita nel contesto europeo. Ricordo che me ne ero già occupato, e infatti vi rimando a questo articolo. Pur trattandosi di prodotti amatoriali mostrano conclusioni affini a quelle degli studi accademici e, relativamente all’Italia, il noto cline genetico che va tanto in direzione nord-sud quanto in direzione est-ovest. La più nota dicotomia italiana è, infatti, quella che separa il Settentrione dal Mezzogiorno, ma ne esiste anche un’altra, che è quella che distanzia il Nord-Ovest dal Nord-Est e la costa tirrenica da quella adriatica. L’Italia segue, dunque, un gradiente genetico studiato da anni (vedi Barbujani, Sokal, Cavalli-Sforza e Piazza, tra i primi), che del resto è in linea con la naturale diversificazione territoriale ed etno-culturale di questo Paese.

and much more

 
Italian Beakers

The Beaker phenomenon and the genomic transformation of northwest Europe
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25738
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB23635

Code:
I2478_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy,5.34,0,0,0,47.45,28.85,0.64,0,3.59,1.22,12.27,0.65
I2477_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy,0,0,6.01,0.21,60.29,7.43,0,0.07,7.60,0.08,18.30,0
I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy,0,1.31,0,0,43.62,20.47,0,0,8.75,0,25.64,0.20
I4930_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Sicily,0,0,10.64,0,41.31,0.42,0,0,9.55,0,38.08,0
 
I don't think the "Tuscan like" Crusaders are very Tuscan like. I usually get very high matches with actual "Tuscan like" samples. Maybe mislabeling by mta again?

12.09009512CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI41
16.14783886CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI53
18.67368469CrusaderKnightFrenchLebanonCrusaderSI40
27.34404871CrusaderKnightCelto-GermanicLebanonCrusaderSI39
30.02284130CrusaderKnightCelto-GermanicLebanonCrusaderSI47

 

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