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Thread: NEW! All Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo ON-LINE

  1. #926
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    @Archetype0ne


    Your K36 SZ32 is 1.502325531 (divide by 10) as per @mlukas suggestion,

    ... because K36 gives high distances by default :)
    I highly doubt it...
    Because when you go to "Single" tab of the calculator you get a "composite" of different components. It would make no sense, just by logic, for the distance of my composite to be 6.98%
    while my distance to a homogeneous sample is 1.50 %.
    By definition the composite is made out of more components to more "closely" estimate your background... that is to say to decrease the distance... If that makes sense.

    I think my explanation in the previous comment is backed by evidence here:




    As you can see in the "Single" tab of Vahaduo, K36 yields 6.98% from the input 6.98.
    While the "Single" tab of Vahaduo for G25 yields 2.59% from the input 0.0258.
    I think that is solid proof that on both calculators the distances are % expressed differently, in one case as 00.x in the other case as x%.

    What I fail to understand is what these % means in relation to "Distance" in both calculators.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

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  2. #927
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    by looking, I Think :

    we say that the distance is how close we are to a sample, but it’s also the % of how different we are from it.

    I’m close enough to make a one to one comparison to a Dod K12 sample.

    The Apulian sample below is 3.13% different than me



    and in the Single below it matches my distance



    and:


    ... all together, I’m about 2.07 % different than the samples below:


  3. #928
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    The K36 results in Vahaduo are closer to the Conservative Mode results of another k36 calculator with the same modern data samples ...

    a small example: R1 - K36








    Ancient:
    so should the first number read .............0.728 ?
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4p
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  4. #929
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    so should the first number read .............0.728 ?
    Yes, or 0.739 from another file at yourDNAportal.


    also smile and be Happy,

    Miss R1 didn’t have any hair on her back, lol


    I have the same back hair results as she does :)

  5. #930
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Yes, or 0.739 from another file at yourDNAportal.


    also smile and be Happy,

    Miss R1 didn’t have any hair on her back, lol


    I have the same back hair results as she does :)
    great......i dont like hairy women.............is she blonde or dark hair or is this still in debate ...........IIRC eyes are blue

    for me R1 is aligned closely with SZ1 in regards to similarities

  6. #931
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    by looking, I Think :

    we say that the distance is how close we are to a sample, but it’s also the % of how different we are from it.

    I’m close enough to make a one to one comparison to a Dod K12 sample.

    The Apulian sample below is 3.13% different than me



    and in the Single below it matches my distance



    and:


    ... all together, I’m about 2.07 % different than the samples below:

    I think your explanation makes a lot of sense, on how these % mean distances.

    However, as for the division by a factor of 10 for K calculators... I still doubt it. Say 0.7% is way too close in the example from your last post... and 0.2% to a Villa Magna sample makes even less sense from the example I'm quoting in this reply.. that's even closer than G25's 2%...
    Would be interesting if mlucas would give his two cents to my posts 926, 928.

  7. #932
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    I think your explanation makes a lot of sense, on how these % mean distances.

    However, as for the division by a factor of 10 for K calculators... I still doubt it. Say 0.7% is way too close in the example from your last post... and 0.2% to a Villa Magna sample makes even less sense from the example I'm quoting in this reply.. that's even closer than G25's 2%...
    Would be interesting if mlucas would give his two cents to my posts 926, 928.
    Thanks, ... but to Clarify:

    The division by 10 was about the K36 Vahaduo results only,

    and it doesn’t apply to the Apulian + Villa Magna example because are Dodecad K12 results, as I stated in the post #929 :)

  8. #933
    Regular Member Lukas's Avatar
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Puntndnal K12 Modern & Ancient and K8 African added to Vahaduo

    Puntndal K12 Modern
    http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/puntdnal...rn-vahaduo.htm

    Puntdnal K12 Ancient
    http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/puntdnal...nt-vahaduo.htm

    Puntdnal African
    http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/puntdnal...an-vahaduo.htm

    also Dodecad Africa9 added too:
    http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/dodecad-africa9-vahaduo.htm
    G25 Maps
    K36 Ancestral Report & Chromosomal Analysis & Heat Maps

    https://www.lm-genetics.com


  9. #934
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the Punt calculator would need as many ancient samples as the K12b to be any good.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  10. #935
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    Thanks @mlukas.

    Puntndnal K12 Ancient is quite interesting to do the analysis of very ancient ancestry components, specially in the single mode (admixture).

    This is the analysis that I made of my very anciente admixture (single mode) displayed by this calculator.

    Bichon's man is a WHG discovered at the "Grotte du Bichon" located north of the Western Alps.

    The Iceman is the famous Otzi, a male from chalcolitic age that lived in the Alps.

    Ust'-Ishim is a very ancient specimen from North Eurasian Upper Paleolithic. Ust'-Ishim belongs to pan-Eurasian mitochondrial (mtDNA) haplogroup R* and it's genome is slightly close to Mesolithic Iberian La Brana-1 and Upper Paleolithic Siberian MA-1 (or Mal'ta boy).

    Kotias Klde, discovered in Georgia, is Caucasian Hunter-Gatherer (CHG). The Caucasus hunter-gatherers contributed significantly to modern European populations by way of the Yamna people. Around half of the Yamna people's DNA come from the Caucasus hunter-gatherers. The Caucasus hunter-gatherers also contributed genetically to modern Central Asians and South Asians.

    Hungary_CA is a specimen from the chalcolitic in Central Europe, and maybe belongs to the CW culture.\

    AnatolianNeolithic is an Anatolian Neolitic Farmer - ANF.

    Distance to: Duarte
    15.78606981 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    17.27425831 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    17.66748426 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    18.12622410 Hungary_BA_I1502
    18.29672102 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    18.61209284 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    20.58786050 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    21.22804748 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    21.32393022 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    22.28295313 Hungary_CA_I1497
    23.59555043 Iceman_MN_SG
    24.03497452 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    24.22395509 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    24.76368309 Iberia_M_I0406
    24.82599444 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    24.97779013 Potapovka_I0419
    25.05434094 Hungary_EN_I0495
    26.19236530 Srubnaya_I0430
    26.63343763 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    27.47762726 Iberia_EN_I0412
    27.75103602 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    28.88390555 LBK_EN_I0054
    28.99499957 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    29.56010825 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    29.69898988 Srubnaya_I0232


  11. #936
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Thanks @mlukas.

    Puntndnal K12 Ancient is quite interesting to do the analysis of very ancient ancestry components, specially in the single mode (admixture).

    This is the analysis that I made of my very anciente admixture (single mode) displayed by this calculator.

    Bichon's man is a WHG discovered at the "Grotte du Bichon" located north of the Western Alps.

    The Iceman is the famous Otzi, a male from chalcolitic age that lived in the Alps.

    Ust'-Ishim is a very ancient specimen from North Eurasian Upper Paleolithic. Ust'-Ishim belongs to pan-Eurasian mitochondrial (mtDNA) haplogroup R* and it's genome is slightly close to Mesolithic Iberian La Brana-1 and Upper Paleolithic Siberian MA-1 (or Mal'ta boy).

    Kotias Klde, discovered in Georgia, is Caucasian Hunter-Gatherer (CHG). The Caucasus hunter-gatherers contributed significantly to modern European populations by way of the Yamna people. Around half of the Yamna people's DNA come from the Caucasus hunter-gatherers. The Caucasus hunter-gatherers also contributed genetically to modern Central Asians and South Asians.

    Hungary_CA is a specimen from the chalcolitic in Central Europe, and maybe belongs to the CW culture.\

    AnatolianNeolithic is an Anatolian Neolitic Farmer - ANF.

    Distance to: Duarte
    15.78606981 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    17.27425831 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    17.66748426 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    18.12622410 Hungary_BA_I1502
    18.29672102 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    18.61209284 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    20.58786050 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    21.22804748 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    21.32393022 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    22.28295313 Hungary_CA_I1497
    23.59555043 Iceman_MN_SG
    24.03497452 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    24.22395509 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    24.76368309 Iberia_M_I0406
    24.82599444 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    24.97779013 Potapovka_I0419
    25.05434094 Hungary_EN_I0495
    26.19236530 Srubnaya_I0430
    26.63343763 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    27.47762726 Iberia_EN_I0412
    27.75103602 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    28.88390555 LBK_EN_I0054
    28.99499957 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    29.56010825 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    29.69898988 Srubnaya_I0232

    Just for you, Duarte. :)

    Distance to: Angela
    19.92385254 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    21.38129790 Iceman_MN_SG
    21.59397833 Hungary_CA_I1497
    21.60184946 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    22.73213364 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    23.09112167 Hungary_EN_I0495
    23.12011894 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    23.89183752 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    24.97878900 Iberia_EN_I0412
    25.11234557 LBK_EN_I0054
    25.14696602 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    25.28378730 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    25.75441516 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    25.88725362 Hungary_BA_I1502
    26.47262548 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    26.54580758 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    26.63963025 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    26.91170563 Stuttgart_SG
    27.51072336 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    27.61557350 Iberia_M_I0406
    28.21967222 Srubnaya_I0430
    28.60314493 Potapovka_I0419
    29.32967610 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    29.83420688 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    31.07056324 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    32.68393948 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    32.77651446 Srubnaya_I0232
    33.49940149 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    34.01499522 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    34.07124741 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    34.45837924 Armenian_MBA
    34.66525494 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    37.27197204 Kostenki14_UP_SG
    38.59520566 Scythian_IA_I0247
    45.45690157 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443
    48.59794131 Poltavka_I0440
    49.21503734 Yamnaya_Samara_I0231
    49.79407495 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511
    50.45859590 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552
    51.90260013 MA1_SG
    57.03007891 Ust_Ishim_DG
    58.49760593 Samara_Eneolithic_I0433
    63.49984173 Samara_HG_I0124
    64.67750691 AnatolianNeolithic_I0746
    65.12196173 Hungary_HG_I1507
    65.31844992 Bichon
    65.52983977 AnatolianNeolithic_I0745
    74.57955417 Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585
    79.74628455 Karelia_HG_I0061
    80.86587599 Kotias_Kide_KK

    I am definitely a lot Early Neolithic, even Iberia EN, which duplicates what I've seen on other calculators. Then there's the Central Europe pull, and the Iran Neo Pull, and about 25% steppe. (Of course, Sintashta has some European farmer. Still, 25-30% steppe is what I usually get on other calculators.) These samples in combination get me pretty darn close as far as distance goes.

    Target: Angela
    Distance: 0.4917% / 0.49170926
    22.2 LBK_EN_I0054
    19.0 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    14.2 Stuttgart_SG
    10.2 Armenian_MBA
    6.4 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    5.8 Kotias_Kide_KK
    5.6 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    4.2 Iberia_M_I0406
    3.0 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552
    2.8 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    2.4 Potapovka_I0419
    1.4 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    1.2 LaBrana
    0.6 AnatolianNeolithic_I0745
    0.4 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    0.4 Kostenki14_UP_SG
    0.2 Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585


    I'm surprised you get no steppe at all, Duarte. I know some analyses show Iberians don't get much, despite the Bell Beaker ancestry, but none? Are the Portuguese different from Spaniards in that regard, because probably most analyses like that are done with Spaniards?

  12. #937
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    these are the K36-Ancient coordinates I used ...
    Salento: Nice work, finally getting around to running K36-ancient coordinates using the data you povided in post 902. Since there is no K36 sheet, I just used the Eurogenes K13 and posted your coordinates in the Source tab my own in the Target and ran them. It estimated them and seems to have worked. I cut it off at 30, the last one in my list is a distance of 29.96 (BA_I0070_Minoan). I left that Minoan for comparison purposes relative to the Myceneans that show up K36. R437 has always shown up in the Dodecad K7, K12 estimates as <5 and my closest Iron Age Roman distance, Not as close here in K36 but still first. Thanks again!

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani
    9.38742244 R437_Iron_Age_Praeneste
    13.85944804 CL30_GreeksouthItalian
    13.91804584 SZ36_northItalian
    14.80324627 SZ19_Italian_Balkan
    14.83656631 CL38_GreeksouthItalian
    15.58050384 Niederstotzingen_north-Italian_3c
    15.80700794 R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
    15.91645375 SZ32_northItalian
    17.21268137 N_Bar8_Anatolia
    17.87645938 CL36_northItalian
    17.89344293 CL25_south_Italian
    18.04412370 N_Bar31_Anatolia
    18.46390262 EMA_GreekBalkan_AEH_1
    18.50104051 SZ40_Italian
    18.67760691 CL121__northItalian
    18.94370872 R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
    19.09797110 BA_I9006_Mycenean
    19.19162317 BA_I9033_Mycenaean
    19.24412897 EN_Anatolia_Tepe002
    19.43110393 CL31_Greek_Balkan
    19.44597131 SZ1_GreekBalkan
    20.09655692 CHL_Anatolian_I1584
    20.27764533 SZ37_Greek_Italian
    20.43723073 EMA_Greek_STR_300
    21.09759465 SZ43_northItalian
    21.46843730 N_Greece_Revenia5
    21.50496222 Crimean_Goth_Ker_1
    21.52275772 EN_Anatolia_Tep003
    21.65731516 EMA_Italian_STR_502
    21.95546629 N_Hungary_NE1_
    22.00090907 CL23_northItalian
    22.13096473 BA_I9041_Mycenaean
    22.67735875 I7424_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD
    22.71274752 SZ28_northItalian
    22.90390141 I10892_Catalonia_medieval
    23.20863848 N_Greece_Kleitos10
    23.76315846 BA_I9123_Crete_Armenoi
    23.94855319 CL57_northItalian
    24.37730502 CHL_Armenia_I1632
    24.71491048 Visigoth_southEuro_mixed_I12031
    24.91072661 SZ45_Pannonian
    24.93148612 BA_I9010_Mycenaean
    24.93221009 EMA_northItalian_NW_54
    25.07332248 CHL_Armenia_I1407
    25.13115596 i3808_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD
    25.34151535 LBA_Armenia_RISE397
    25.54769853 EMA_Alpine_STR_310
    25.69031530 LBK_Germany_Stuttgart
    25.97307067 SZ18_Pannonian
    26.32985188 N_Levant_AinGhazal2
    26.42564663 N_Anatolia_I0707
    26.42564663 N_Anatolia_I0707_BAR2
    26.59022189 I3578_EMA_Andalusia
    26.75112521 N_Levant__AinGhazal3
    27.15734707 N_Anatolia_I0709
    27.15734707 N_Anatolia_I0709_BAR20
    27.38053506 LBK_I0022_Germany
    27.38053506 LBK_I0025_Germany
    27.39369818 CL47_Alpine
    27.43572853 CL94_Iberian
    27.63411298 N_Levant_AinGhazal4
    27.81500674 BA_Hungary_BR2
    27.90955392 Gepid_Vim2
    28.03148765 LBK_Germany_I0100
    28.34916048 CL63_Alpine
    28.44541791 EMA_GreekBalkan_aed_1108
    28.47419885 I1979_Beaker_North_Italy
    28.66457395 MA2198_Anatolia_IA
    29.08394059 DA199HungaryMedieval
    29.09438949 N_Levant_AinGhazal1
    29.15924553 i3757_Celtiberian_IA
    29.16937606 N_Anatolia_I0708
    29.16937606 N_Anatolia_I0708_BAR6
    29.37205645 i7425_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD
    29.41679282 EMA_northItalian_FN_2
    29.45007810 EMA_Alpine_STR_535
    29.49586920 BA_Hungary_RISE483
    29.96892057 BA_I0070_Minoan

    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 9.3874% / 9.38742244 | ADC: 2x
    100.0 R437_Iron_Age_Praeneste


    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 7.7358% / 7.73581803 | ADC: 1x
    84.8 R437_Iron_Age_Praeneste
    15.0 Niederstotzingen_north-Italian_3c
    0.2 CL30_GreeksouthItalian


    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 4.1692% / 4.16923406 | ADC: 0.5x
    49.4 R437_Iron_Age_Praeneste
    21.8 Niederstotzingen_north-Italian_3c
    7.6 CL38_GreeksouthItalian
    4.6 N_Levant_AinGhazal4
    4.2 BA_I9123_Crete_Armenoi
    4.2 SZ36_northItalian
    3.8 CL30_GreeksouthItalian
    3.0 N_Levant_AinGhazal2
    1.4 I1152_Israel_chalcolithic


    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 2.5922% / 2.59220221 | ADC: 0.25x
    30.2 Niederstotzingen_north-Italian_3c
    25.8 R437_Iron_Age_Praeneste
    19.8 CL38_GreeksouthItalian
    7.4 N_Levant_AinGhazal2
    4.6 N_Levant_AinGhazal4
    4.2 BA_I9123_Crete_Armenoi
    3.6 SZ36_northItalian
    3.0 EBA_Jordan__I1705
    1.0 SZ1_GreekBalkan
    0.4 N_Bar31_Anatolia
    Last edited by Palermo Trapani; 09-05-20 at 19:34. Reason: clarification

  13. #938
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    ancient k12 for myself



    Distance to: Torziok12b
    45.07513283 Kostenki14_UP_SG
    49.77366372 Ust_Ishim_DG
    50.88425690 Scythian_IA_I0247
    51.73246176 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    53.30992028 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    53.31779815 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    53.63168466 MA1_SG
    53.63168466 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    53.98460521 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    54.13841150 Potapovka_I0419
    54.14801566 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    54.27713699 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    54.52208360 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    54.99906908 Srubnaya_I0232
    55.10887043 Srubnaya_I0430
    55.37470181 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    55.55553618 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    55.64106038 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    55.70401781 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    56.38570386 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    56.73577002 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    56.79584140 Hungary_BA_I1502
    57.03821175 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511
    57.35728027 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    58.31978738 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443



    and modern one below

    Distance to: Torziok12b
    33.71776386 Selkup
    37.69811136 Chuvash
    39.32502511 Altaian
    42.91756750 Dolgan
    44.60053363 Tuvinian
    45.78381373 Turkmen
    47.31868130 Hazara
    48.24476759 Uzbek
    48.78603899 Mordovian
    49.08561500 Russian
    50.76571284 Finnish
    51.51026694 Yakut
    53.77255434 Nogai
    55.27628425 Czech
    55.36413641 Belarusian
    55.56309567 Hungarian
    55.58468854 Romanian
    55.61948939 Croatian
    55.72950386 Scottish_West
    55.82031530 Icelandic
    55.90301960 German_North
    56.11548449 Estonian
    56.18841162 Irish
    56.26488781 English_South
    56.28736626 Dutch_North

  14. #939
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Just for you, Duarte. :)

    Distance to: Angela
    19.92385254 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    21.38129790 Iceman_MN_SG
    21.59397833 Hungary_CA_I1497
    21.60184946 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    22.73213364 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    23.09112167 Hungary_EN_I0495
    23.12011894 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    23.89183752 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    24.97878900 Iberia_EN_I0412
    25.11234557 LBK_EN_I0054
    25.14696602 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    25.28378730 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    25.75441516 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    25.88725362 Hungary_BA_I1502
    26.47262548 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    26.54580758 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    26.63963025 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    26.91170563 Stuttgart_SG
    27.51072336 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    27.61557350 Iberia_M_I0406
    28.21967222 Srubnaya_I0430
    28.60314493 Potapovka_I0419
    29.32967610 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    29.83420688 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    31.07056324 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    32.68393948 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    32.77651446 Srubnaya_I0232
    33.49940149 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    34.01499522 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    34.07124741 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    34.45837924 Armenian_MBA
    34.66525494 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    37.27197204 Kostenki14_UP_SG
    38.59520566 Scythian_IA_I0247
    45.45690157 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443
    48.59794131 Poltavka_I0440
    49.21503734 Yamnaya_Samara_I0231
    49.79407495 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511
    50.45859590 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552
    51.90260013 MA1_SG
    57.03007891 Ust_Ishim_DG
    58.49760593 Samara_Eneolithic_I0433
    63.49984173 Samara_HG_I0124
    64.67750691 AnatolianNeolithic_I0746
    65.12196173 Hungary_HG_I1507
    65.31844992 Bichon
    65.52983977 AnatolianNeolithic_I0745
    74.57955417 Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585
    79.74628455 Karelia_HG_I0061
    80.86587599 Kotias_Kide_KK

    I am definitely a lot Early Neolithic, even Iberia EN, which duplicates what I've seen on other calculators. Then there's the Central Europe pull, and the Iran Neo Pull, and about 25% steppe. (Of course, Sintashta has some European farmer. Still, 25-30% steppe is what I usually get on other calculators.) These samples in combination get me pretty darn close as far as distance goes.

    Target: Angela
    Distance: 0.4917% / 0.49170926
    22.2 LBK_EN_I0054
    19.0 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    14.2 Stuttgart_SG
    10.2 Armenian_MBA
    6.4 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    5.8 Kotias_Kide_KK
    5.6 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    4.2 Iberia_M_I0406
    3.0 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552
    2.8 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    2.4 Potapovka_I0419
    1.4 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    1.2 LaBrana
    0.6 AnatolianNeolithic_I0745
    0.4 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    0.4 Kostenki14_UP_SG
    0.2 Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585


    I'm surprised you get no steppe at all, Duarte. I know some analyses show Iberians don't get much, despite the Bell Beaker ancestry, but none? Are the Portuguese different from Spaniards in that regard, because probably most analyses like that are done with Spaniards?
    Hi @Angela.

    Angela. If you check my analysis in mixed mode, for a distance of 4.6 I have 11.8% Kitias Kide KK. This sample is very loaded in CHG ancestry. The Yamma are, on average, 50% CHG. See the graphic below, courtesy of @Demetrios in the thread https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...enaeans/page84.

    Cheers :)



    PS: On the other hand, the yammas of Ukraine,
    Hungary, Kalmykia, Samara and Bulgaria have a lot of WHG and I am 24.6% Bichon, which sample is practically a pure WHG.



    Last edited by Duarte; 09-05-20 at 20:50.

  15. #940
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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    Where can I get access to PuntDNAL K12 calculator? Admixture Studio only has the Near Eastern one.

    If its only on Gedmacht I will pass on this one... deleted my account when they got acquired... can't remember why, but it had something to do with who might use my data.

  16. #941
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Where can I get access to PuntDNAL K12 calculator? Admixture Studio only has the Near Eastern one.
    Puntdnal K12 Ancient
    http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/puntdnal...nt-vahaduo.htm

  17. #942
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Yes, but I have to include my coordinates in Target, correct? Now where do I get my coordinates?

    Edit: I surely am not the only one who deleted his Gedmacth account?
    PS: Is it me or the distances are quite big with this calculator?

  18. #943
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Yes, but I have to include my coordinates in Target, correct? Now where do I get my coordinates?

    Edit: I surely am not the only one who deleted his Gedmacth account?
    PS: Is it me or the distances are quite big with this calculator?
    Try the calculator ‘Punt’ in www.dnagenics.com doing the upload of your kit.

    PS: Use the tool ‘Admixture Studio V.2.49’.

    PS2: I couldn’t see that you checked the dnagenics portal and did not find Puntdnal. Sorry. My bad

  19. #944
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Hi @Angela.

    Angela. If you check my analysis in mixed mode, for a distance of 4.6 I have 11.8% Kitias Kide KK. This sample is very loaded in CHG ancestry. The Yamma are, on average, 50% CHG. See the graphic below, courtesy of @Demetrios in the thread https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...enaeans/page84.

    Cheers :)



    PS: On the other hand, the yammas of Ukraine and Hungary have a lot of WHG and I am 24.6% Bichon, which sample is practically a pure WHG.



    Corded Ware, which is what came into Europe, was less CHG heavy, but yes, I take your point.

    What I do think is key for Iberians is the elevated WHG they have always had compared to other Southern Europeans and even Central Europeans. I think that is part of the explanation for closer numbers to Baltic and other Northeastern samples.

  20. #945
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Yes, but I have to include my coordinates in Target, correct? Now where do I get my coordinates?

    Edit: I surely am not the only one who deleted his Gedmacth account?
    PS: Is it me or the distances are quite big with this calculator?
    The distances are quite big because these are very very old samples

  21. #946
    Regular Member Regio X's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    PuntDNAL K12 Ancient


    Distance to: RegioX(FTDNA)
    15.63401740 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    16.72371071 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    17.69922315 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    17.93216384 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    18.13373927 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    18.55134766 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    21.32703683 Srubnaya_I0430
    21.66616025 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    21.80579052 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    22.85153168 Potapovka_I0419
    25.01924259 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    25.44921413 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    25.99100806 Hungary_BA_I1502
    26.16013188 Srubnaya_I0232
    26.22103163 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    26.35417424 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    27.18607180 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    27.47221323 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    28.14680266 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    29.12683471 Iceman_MN_SG
    29.16474756 Hungary_CA_I1497
    29.56404066 Armenian_MBA
    30.87219623 Hungary_EN_I0495
    31.63799140 Scythian_IA_I0247
    32.73640939 Iberia_EN_I0412



    Distance to: RegioX(23andMe)
    15.02042609 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    16.32278163 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    17.58474339 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    17.99592176 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    18.01091891 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    18.80699870 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    21.14174070 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    21.27517803 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    22.24641994 Srubnaya_I0430
    23.01701979 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    23.09509039 Potapovka_I0419
    23.92683013 Hungary_BA_I1502
    25.59263957 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    26.85280618 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    26.85299238 Srubnaya_I0232
    26.91028056 Hungary_CA_I1497
    27.04927356 Iceman_MN_SG
    27.36079677 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    28.12566799 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    28.38138827 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    28.81463517 Hungary_EN_I0495
    28.83007457 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    30.42044050 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    30.75098698 Iberia_EN_I0412
    30.76529213 Baalberge_MN_I0560



    Distance to: Father(23andMe)
    12.90901236 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    14.54484789 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    15.49008070 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    15.91925250 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    17.08544995 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    18.84443154 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    19.17426922 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    19.28399855 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    19.88448139 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    20.71382630 Hungary_BA_I1502
    21.79409553 Potapovka_I0419
    21.81748381 Srubnaya_I0430
    24.15538449 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    25.86991689 Hungary_CA_I1497
    26.04808246 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    26.09027788 Srubnaya_I0232
    26.33861424 Iceman_MN_SG
    27.00301094 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    27.62630268 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    27.85054039 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    28.01664862 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    28.16083450 Hungary_EN_I0495
    28.73991301 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    28.88048822 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    29.42605308 Iberia_M_I0406



    Distance to: Mother(23andMe)
    13.57170586 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    14.85635218 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    16.23857137 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    16.63103124 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    16.92605093 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    19.35590866 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    19.61354634 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    19.68276403 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    19.83106654 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    20.76369909 Hungary_BA_I1502
    22.34437737 Potapovka_I0419
    22.40426745 Srubnaya_I0430
    24.52327874 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    25.45134967 Hungary_CA_I1497
    26.21852780 Iceman_MN_SG
    26.37178796 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    26.50719148 Srubnaya_I0232
    27.48110624 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    27.79300631 Hungary_EN_I0495
    28.09147914 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    28.25617101 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    28.39843658 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    28.42096409 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    28.74180231 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    29.19368425 Iberia_M_I0406

  22. #947
    Regular Member
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    PuntDNAL K12 Ancient posted in plain text, blue kicked in at Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97. Given this sample, not surprisingly for me Iceman is my closest. A question I have relates to the Bell Beaker samples in Punt DNAL K12, are these older samples than the Italian and Sicilian Bell Beakers which is why the Italian/Sicilian Bell Beakers are not included. I get distances 15-18 on the Sicilian Bell Beaker and around 18 or so on the Italian Bell Beaker so excluding age of sample and while the cultures were the same, the local effect in the Italian and Sicilian Bell Beaker would explain why I am closer to those than the ones here. Am I off base?


    Distance to: PalermoTrapani
    20.64564845 Iceman_MN_SG
    21.87196379 Hungary_CA_I1497
    21.98460370 Hungary_EN_I0495
    22.22999775 LBK_EN_I0054
    23.53620190 Iberia_EN_I0412
    23.90549728 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    24.47678083 Stuttgart_SG
    27.38910002 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    27.49477769 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    28.90523828 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    29.02520973 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    30.05982036 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    30.30136631 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    30.39774334 Iberia_M_I0406
    30.50824151 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    30.67674689 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    30.92689444 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    31.95235203 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    32.76725194 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    32.93285290 Armenian_MBA
    33.23932611 Hungary_BA_I1502
    33.82724937 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    33.94573316 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    34.39349939 Srubnaya_I0430
    35.61745078 Potapovka_I0419

    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 6.8155% / 6.81548795 | ADC: 1x
    72.2 Iceman_MN_SG
    27.8 Armenian_MBA


    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 3.7500% / 3.75003893 | ADC: 0.5x
    47.6 Iceman_MN_SG
    35.8 Armenian_MBA
    16.6 Hungary_CA_I1497



    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 2.5809% / 2.58090294 | ADC: 0.25x
    36.6 Armenian_MBA
    27.6 Hungary_CA_I1497
    18.6 Iceman_MN_SG
    13.8 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    3.4 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569

  23. #948
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Just for you, Duarte. :)

    Distance to: Angela
    19.92385254 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    21.38129790 Iceman_MN_SG
    21.59397833 Hungary_CA_I1497
    21.60184946 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    22.73213364 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    23.09112167 Hungary_EN_I0495
    23.12011894 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    23.89183752 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    24.97878900 Iberia_EN_I0412
    25.11234557 LBK_EN_I0054
    25.14696602 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    25.28378730 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    25.75441516 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    25.88725362 Hungary_BA_I1502
    26.47262548 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    26.54580758 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    26.63963025 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    26.91170563 Stuttgart_SG
    27.51072336 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    27.61557350 Iberia_M_I0406
    28.21967222 Srubnaya_I0430
    28.60314493 Potapovka_I0419
    29.32967610 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    29.83420688 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    31.07056324 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    32.68393948 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    32.77651446 Srubnaya_I0232
    33.49940149 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    34.01499522 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    34.07124741 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    34.45837924 Armenian_MBA
    34.66525494 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    37.27197204 Kostenki14_UP_SG
    38.59520566 Scythian_IA_I0247
    45.45690157 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443
    48.59794131 Poltavka_I0440
    49.21503734 Yamnaya_Samara_I0231
    49.79407495 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511
    50.45859590 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552
    51.90260013 MA1_SG
    57.03007891 Ust_Ishim_DG
    58.49760593 Samara_Eneolithic_I0433
    63.49984173 Samara_HG_I0124
    64.67750691 AnatolianNeolithic_I0746
    65.12196173 Hungary_HG_I1507
    65.31844992 Bichon
    65.52983977 AnatolianNeolithic_I0745
    74.57955417 Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585
    79.74628455 Karelia_HG_I0061
    80.86587599 Kotias_Kide_KK

    I am definitely a lot Early Neolithic, even Iberia EN, which duplicates what I've seen on other calculators. Then there's the Central Europe pull, and the Iran Neo Pull, and about 25% steppe. (Of course, Sintashta has some European farmer. Still, 25-30% steppe is what I usually get on other calculators.) These samples in combination get me pretty darn close as far as distance goes.

    I'm surprised you get no steppe at all, Duarte. I know some analyses show Iberians don't get much, despite the Bell Beaker ancestry, but none? Are the Portuguese different from Spaniards in that regard, because probably most analyses like that are done with Spaniards?
    @Angela

    My top 60 samples, as you done:

    Distance to: Duarte
    15.78606981 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    17.27425831 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    17.66748426 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    18.12622410 Hungary_BA_I1502
    18.29672102 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    18.61209284 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    20.58786050 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    21.22804748 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    21.32393022 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    22.28295313 Hungary_CA_I1497
    23.59555043 Iceman_MN_SG
    24.03497452 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    24.22395509 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    24.76368309 Iberia_M_I0406
    24.82599444 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    24.97779013 Potapovka_I0419
    25.05434094 Hungary_EN_I0495
    26.19236530 Srubnaya_I0430
    26.63343763 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
    27.47762726 Iberia_EN_I0412
    27.75103602 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    28.88390555 LBK_EN_I0054
    28.99499957 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    29.56010825 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
    29.69898988 Srubnaya_I0232
    30.08255308 Stuttgart_SG
    31.41862505 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
    31.46219954 Andronovo_SG_RISE505
    31.50682466 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    31.56818018 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
    31.69558329 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
    35.11751700 Kostenki14_UP_SG
    38.17826607 Scythian_IA_I0247
    41.08247802 Armenian_MBA
    44.20475088 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443
    47.82551620 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511
    48.34759560 Yamnaya_Samara_I0231
    48.74741019 Poltavka_I0440
    50.03478790 MA1_SG
    50.49643552 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552
    54.00953620 Samara_Eneolithic_I0433
    55.89633262 Ust_Ishim_DG
    57.37089855 Hungary_HG_I1507
    57.43178562 Bichon
    58.11626278 Samara_HG_I0124
    66.91337684 AnatolianNeolithic_I0746
    67.12264893 Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585
    67.76400224 AnatolianNeolithic_I0745
    72.62926407 Karelia_HG_I0061
    82.92412194 Loschbour_SG
    83.34242617 LaBrana
    83.34242617 Motala12
    86.49560682 Kotias_Kide_KK
    97.83153888 Satsurblia_SATP

    Your Yammas:
    45.45690157 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443

    49.21503734 Yamnaya_Samara_I0231

    50.45859590 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552

    My yammas:
    44.20475088 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443

    48.34759560 Yamnaya_Samara_I0231

    50.49643552 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552

    Cheers ;)

  24. #949
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    4,871

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    PuntDNAL K12 Ancient posted in plain text, blue kicked in at Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97. Given this sample, not surprisingly for me Iceman is my closest. A question I have relates to the Bell Beaker samples in Punt DNAL K12, are these older samples than the Italian and Sicilian Bell Beakers which is why the Italian/Sicilian Bell Beakers are not included. I get distances 15-18 on the Sicilian Bell Beaker and around 18 or so on the Italian Bell Beaker so excluding age of sample and while the cultures were the same, the local effect in the Italian and Sicilian Bell Beaker would explain why I am closer to those than the ones here. Am I off base?

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani
    20.64564845 Iceman_MN_SG
    21.87196379 Hungary_CA_I1497
    21.98460370 Hungary_EN_I0495
    22.22999775 LBK_EN_I0054
    23.53620190 Iberia_EN_I0412
    23.90549728 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    24.47678083 Stuttgart_SG
    27.38910002 Epserstedt_MN_I0172
    27.49477769 Alberstedt_LN_I0118
    28.90523828 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
    29.02520973 Baalberge_MN_I0560
    30.05982036 Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489
    30.30136631 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
    30.39774334 Iberia_M_I0406
    30.50824151 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    30.67674689 Unetice_EBA_I0117
    30.92689444 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
    31.95235203 Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300
    32.76725194 Vatya_SG_RISE479
    32.93285290 Armenian_MBA
    33.23932611 Hungary_BA_I1502
    33.82724937 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
    33.94573316 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
    34.39349939 Srubnaya_I0430
    35.61745078 Potapovka_I0419

    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 6.8155% / 6.81548795 | ADC: 1x
    72.2 Iceman_MN_SG
    27.8 Armenian_MBA


    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 3.7500% / 3.75003893 | ADC: 0.5x
    47.6 Iceman_MN_SG
    35.8 Armenian_MBA
    16.6 Hungary_CA_I1497



    Target: PalermoTrapani
    Distance: 2.5809% / 2.58090294 | ADC: 0.25x
    36.6 Armenian_MBA
    27.6 Hungary_CA_I1497
    18.6 Iceman_MN_SG
    13.8 Starcevo_MN_I0174
    3.4 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
    You can try the FREE one to one comparison with Otzi the Iceman at GedMatch, Kit # T882519

    just put a 1 in the input box where it says “... value = 7

    (It only works if you share a certain amount of segments with a sample)




    LBK Stuttgart_SG Kit # F999916


  25. #950
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Posts
    936

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Siicly-South
    Country: United States



    Salento: Thanks. I am over at GEDMATCH and have my Kit over there, but actually never tried this before, was always running the Dodecad, Punt, Eurogenes calculators. I will give this a shot. I doubt I share segments with Otzi but you never know. It is clearly the oldest sample that I get a Distance that low, which I know is 20, but Otzi is the oldest known European Mummy we have so not too shabby.

    Do you know off the top of your head why the Italian/Sicilian Bell Beakers are not included in the Punt DNAL source sample spreadsheet?

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