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Jovialis said:
I have created the coordinates for the Iron Age Italian samples for Dodecad K12b.

All of the samples are close to Northern Italians, with the exception of R437, which is close to Southern Italians, and R850, which is close to Cretans. R475 is close to Italians at a very poor fit.

IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0.14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_435,4.84,0.64,0.65,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33.19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47.15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33,0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.23,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24.04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34

HDl7CP1.png
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Thanks, @Jovialis

It makes sense to me

80797903_1795481060584211_242732627944013824_n.png


81047366_505153480095748_1336636664813977600_n.png
 
| | said:
Well, theoretically after only 30 generations of 25 years... that is, after only 750 years we each already have 1,073,741,824 ancestors who lived then. From one of them we inherit the haplogroup, but from its autosomal ADN of ~ 3,200,000,000 nucleotides we only inherit 3 of them... If we think of an ancestor from 1500, 3000, 6000 12000 years ago... we may still inherit the haplogroup with a few more recent mutations, but from his autosomal DNA ... almost certainly nothing. So... these computers work on a magic basis?! As in the Middle Ages?! lol...
Click to expand...
So wrong. We don't have a billion of ancestors 30 generations back. There's a thing called "pedigree collapse".
Neither do we inherit the same amount of DNA from every ancestor in each generation. This division by two, generation by generation, doesn't have any sense whatsoever.

See more:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=591272#post591272
 
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Thanks by new data Jovialis. You and Stuvanè got nice results. Cool :)
Vahaduo Dodecad K12b, updated spreadsheet. My results with Vahaduo default source to which were added the Jovialis's ancient samples, posts #160 & #165:

Jovialis's Consolidated Data for Vahaduo Dodecad K12b:

IA_Latin_Ardea_R850,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0
IA_Latin_Ardea_R851,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0.14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_435,4.84,0.64,0.65,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.40,0.53
IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_437,6.45,0,3.03,0,33.19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
IA_Civitavecchia_R475,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37,1.98,11.26,0,22.70,0.42
IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015,1.56,0.19,2.85,0,47.15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1,5.02,1.78,1.33,0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.50,0.40
IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.23,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.10,0
IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021,2.11,0,1.96,0.60,47.70,24.04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
IA_Civitavecchia_R474,7.18,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
IA_Civitavecchia_R473,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79,0,0.21,7.39,0.21,20.17,0.34
MA_Villamagna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0,0,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,10.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.95,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0


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Jovialis version.

Distance to:Juan
2.98337058Galicia
3.26111944Extremadura
3.51485419Portuguese
3.63123946Castilla_Y_Leon
4.74488145Murcia
5.01586483Spanish
5.37716468Baleares
6.07864294Spaniards
6.66932530Cataluna
7.03263109Castilla_La_Mancha
7.29433342Andalucia
7.31586632Cantabria
8.15364336Valencia
8.47230193Aragon
8.79476549Canarias
9.16251603IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_435
12.13097276IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015
12.25666757IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016
12.30338165IA_Latin_Ardea_R851
12.63451622IA_Civitavecchia_R473
13.79595955IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021
14.42872136IA_Civitavecchia_R474
14.89019812North_Italian
15.90503379N_Italian
16.59845475French
 
LQBcwZV.png


I added a few more, my closest is R836. MTA had my first being R1548, which is in reality is off the mark...

MA_Villamagna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0,0 ,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,1 0.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49 ,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.9 5,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0

@Salento, I was right, when I initially saw where we would probably be closest to, back when the study first came out. :)

2WlS10K.jpg


DxCpI2Q.png
 
my close cousin from trentino ...my paternal side
she is mtdna T1a1e

we match
Largest segment = 53.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 625.1 cM (17.430 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 2.3

28 shared segments found for this comparison.

409278 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.670 Pct SNPs are full identical





 
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Regio X said:
@TardisBlue
Yeah, afaik these Gedmatch Oracles don't work so well for mixed people. Commercial tests such 23andMe's seem to do a better job here.
Click to expand...

For comparison, here's what an unmixed French (my Mom) gets on Eurogenes K13:

Capture-d-cran-2019-12-30-23-11-40.png

Capture-d-cran-2019-12-30-23-12-33.png
 
Jovialis said:
LQBcwZV.png


I added a few more, my closest is R836. MTA had my first being R1548, which is in reality is off the mark...

MA_Villamagna_R65,7.61,0,2.22,0.30,28.15,13.40,0,0 ,12.74,0,35.20,0.38
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1548,10.45,0,1.98,0,23.44,1 0.87,0,0.17,13.89,0,39.20,0
Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549,9.97,0,3.98,0.04,27.49 ,20.49,0,0.96,10.94,0.05,26.09,0
Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836,8.69,0,0.99,0,30.9 5,15.55,0,0,10.40,0,33.42,0

@Salento, I was right, when I initially saw where we would probably be closest to, back when the study first came out. :)

2WlS10K.jpg


DxCpI2Q.png
Click to expand...
That’s the general area :)

it takes a long time to process such a large amount of data and your efforts have not gone unnoticed,

We appreciate it and thank you!
 
Salento said:
That’s the general area :)

it takes a long time to process such a large amount of data and your efforts have not gone unnoticed,

We appreciate it and thank you!
Click to expand...

Thanks Salento! R121 is my new closest match.

This is more fun to me, than work. :)
 
I had so many duplicates on the first K13 Ancient run, so I went back to the Source and removed them. I also removed one result that said low quality sample.

This is the result:

1.88533817SZ43_szo036_Longobard_M_i2a2-s391_H1e
3.92136456SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_6-th_century
5.48877035IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1
6.08428303I7424_morisco
8.88681045SZ1_SZ1
9.31946887col018_col018_M_R1b-Z2123_T2b
9.96091361I12647_iberia
10.48618138ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC
10.54139459I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1
10.57125820scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce
10.66753486col001_col001
10.70753006IA_Civitavecchia_R474
10.82380709RISE254_Szazhalombatta_Foldvar_Hungary_3631_years_GHIJK_Z12203_J1c9
11.81369121sz40_szo034_Longobard
12.52218032I12516_iberia
13.44571679IA_Civitavecchia_R473
13.49187904I12644_Muslim_Iberian_1100_1300_CE2
13.81188619I3807_morisco
14.21938466I10865_iberia
14.24593275IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021
14.74637244DA195_Hungary_Scythian
15.25983617MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian
15.43876614DA199_Late_Medieval_Hungary
15.57760251IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016
15.59921152IA_Etruscan_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015


The Roman Era, and later, Spaniards show up before some of the ancient Italian samples. Maybe because they're more "recent"? I think that affects the other scores. Of course, some of them were found in Roman Villas so I would expect some similarity.

Anyway, this is the Dodecad K12b. All I did was add the coordinates you posted to the source. The results are quite different for me. Maybe I did it wrong? Could you repost what you've added to Dodecad K12b?

The 1015 Etruscan jumps ahead of the 474 and 473 Etruscans. Also, the Villa di Decima Latins sample, R1016, jumps up the queue. Boville Ernica Latins jump up too, but R1 Proto-Villanovan moves down too, which maybe makes more sense, since it's much older? Is the di Decima Latin sample the only one in Antonio e al where it says the burial was aristocratic?

3.80336693TSI30
5.63808478Tuscan
5.91498943North_Italian
6.22841874N_Italian
8.70606685O_Italian
8.92554760IA_Castel_di_Decima_R1016
9.07843048C_Italian
9.47641282IA_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia_R1015
9.81848257IA_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro_R1
10.57665354IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021
10.77751827IA_Civitavecchia_R473
10.82190833IA_Civitavecchia_R474
12.90000388IA_Latin_Ardea_R851
14.21805894Imperial_Civitanova_Marche_R836
14.37636254IA_Latin_Prenestina_Selicata_437
14.41470083Albanian_Kosovo
14.72641504Albanian_North
15.65395797Baleares
15.77446988Imperial_Monterotondo_R1549
15.95765020IA_Civitavecchia_R475
17.55905464Greek
17.56309198IA_Latin_Prenestina_Colombella_435
17.79110733Sicilian
18.03087352S_Italian_Sicilian
18.06927779Galicia

It would be great to have a K12b with only ancients.
 
Interesting, cool update. Assuming this is for the K13 modern.

Distance to: New_Englander
5.05226682 Abruzzo
5.07381513 Greek_Andros_Island
5.35199028 Basilicata
5.73316666 Molise
6.21351149 GR_Peloponese
6.40847876 Marche
6.56550074 Apulia
6.76039940 Greek_Peloponnese
6.82603106 Greek_Thessaly
6.84388048 West_Sicilian
7.08155350 Lazio
7.28756475 Umbria
7.31052666 Central_Greek
7.48044116 Romagna
7.76000000 Campania
8.16586799 East_Sicilian
8.48262931 Sicily
8.89024927 Kosovo_Albanian
8.99472623 Tuscan
9.55152867 Albanian
9.83290395 Malta
9.95693393 GR_Macedonia
10.03157017 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
10.90691982 Tuscany
11.44564546 Ashkenazi

Target: New_Englander
Distance: 0.5068% / 0.50677614
20.4 Lebanese_Druze
19.6 Albanian
16.0 Lombardy
11.0 Southeast_English
8.0 Marche
7.2 Molise
4.6 Greek_Trabzon
4.6 Friuli-VG
3.4 Kurd_Iran
3.4 Swiss_Italian
0.6 Karitiana
0.6 Kol
0.4 Velamas
0.2 Yoruban
 
New Englander said:
Interesting, cool update. Assuming this is for the K13 modern.

Distance to: New_Englander
5.05226682 Abruzzo
5.07381513 Greek_Andros_Island
5.35199028 Basilicata
5.73316666 Molise
6.21351149 GR_Peloponese
6.40847876 Marche
6.56550074 Apulia
6.76039940 Greek_Peloponnese
6.82603106 Greek_Thessaly
6.84388048 West_Sicilian
7.08155350 Lazio
7.28756475 Umbria
7.31052666 Central_Greek
7.48044116 Romagna
7.76000000 Campania
8.16586799 East_Sicilian
8.48262931 Sicily
8.89024927 Kosovo_Albanian
8.99472623 Tuscan
9.55152867 Albanian
9.83290395 Malta
9.95693393 GR_Macedonia
10.03157017 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
10.90691982 Tuscany
11.44564546 Ashkenazi

Target: New_Englander
Distance: 0.5068% / 0.50677614
20.4 Lebanese_Druze
19.6 Albanian
16.0 Lombardy
11.0 Southeast_English
8.0 Marche
7.2 Molise
4.6 Greek_Trabzon
4.6 Friuli-VG
3.4 Kurd_Iran
3.4 Swiss_Italian
0.6 Karitiana
0.6 Kol
0.4 Velamas
0.2 Yoruban
Click to expand...

Could you post a screenshot of all the results in order, please?
 
Well other than the Colonial Canadian ancestry what is so strange? Seems like Greek islander with a Norther Italian influence in correlation to Campania, and the Jewish ancestry is grouped with some of the Eastern med ancestry in Italians and coming out purly east med, with the rest being Western Europe and some noise due to being mixed.
 
New Englander said:
Well other than the Colonial Canadian ancestry what is so strange? Seems like Greek islander with a Norther Italian influence in correlation to Campania, and the Jewish ancestry is grouped with some of the Eastern med ancestry in Italians and coming out purly east med, with the rest being Western Europe and some noise due to being mixed.
Click to expand...

What is different is that I haven't seen an Italian result yet that includes a big percentage of Lebanese Druze, which does appear in yours, and at 20%, and that includes people from far southern Italy.

Nothing wrong with having Jewish ancestry, goodness knows.

Stop t-rolling. The days for that are over.
 
for what it is worth

modern italians as per an italian site

I have no comment on this,................

 
Oh no I'm not. If anything I'm seeing this showing alot of Roman ancestry if you take out the Druz stuff. Especially given I'm U152 but from The Mountains outside Naples. I thought you were getting at the heavy Adriatic ancestry but I think that's just Roman and the fact Albania is 50 miles or so from the Italian mainland I'm sure it has been a gateway for centeries. I'm not saying they were abreshe, but IDB sharing points to a ancient origin and I think there were communities in the Mountains of Southern Italy that were isolated for a long time.
 
I'm not sure how the black death would have changed the coastal population opposed to the ones in the hills. Of course after seeing the map above, its is showing Avellino to be intermediate between Naples and Bari which would make sense.
 
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